Xmen Monday 106

[Devaishwarya]

@Sal...

The crux of it really is...we're not part of the discussions among and between the creatives about a character, characters and the stories being told. (And honestly I don't think it would be easy or enjoyable for us, if we were). And only having a response and reaction long after the fact. From that perspective, I can only give them the benefit of the doubt that they wrote the character(s) and the story from positive place.
Though I am sure it happens...I don't think Duggan and Percy and Tini are writing their respective books absolutely hating any of the characters there-in and deliberately writing them atrociously or not at all.

[Lucyinthesky]

Agreed

I don´t think they have the idea to write any of their characters badly but when it happens that they have a better handle of one character over another depending on how much of their backstory they know or who they think that character is. So the team books showcase more a group of characters over others but it´s not done on purpose imo.

JDW gave a good example of this: He had the idea Illyana was an evil character(full Darkchild) because of what she did during the Utopia era and if we take only that era where she manipulated her brother and others for her own ends you could see where he was coming from so he didn´t understand why she had fans who thought she was a good person, then he added he had yet to read or reread her time as a New Mutant and her origin and that actually changed his perspective, because her origin helps to understand her in her good and bad moments.

So imo a reader, if she/he is respecful can actually help to change an editor or writers perspective in a positive manner, because they can´t be expect to have the same reading background a fan of a particular character has or the same perspective.

[Hizashi]

We may be welcomed to go along for the ride...but I think it's understood that if the ride is not an enjoyable one we are free to seek other modes of transport.

@the bolded...Yes eh!
How many years did we have to suffer through the "brink of extinction/survival of the species" stories. I clocked out early on in that era and still...

That's true, I guess it just seems a little defeatist.

And the extinction is just one large example.

[Hizashi]

Agreed

I don´t think they have the idea to write any of their characters badly but when it happens that they have a better handle of one character over another depending on how much of their backstory they know or who they think that character is. So the team books showcase more a group of characters over others but it´s not done on purpose imo.

JDW gave a good example of this: He had the idea Illyana was an evil character(full Darkchild) because of what she did during the Utopia era and if we take only that era where she manipulated her brother and others for her own ends you could see where he was coming from so he didn´t understand why she had fans who thought she was a good person, then he added he had yet to read or reread her time as a New Mutant and her origin and that actually changed his perspective, because her origin helps to understand her in her good and bad moments.

So imo a reader, if she/he is respecful can actually help to change an editor or writers perspective in a positive manner, because they can´t be expect to have the same reading background a fan of a particular character has or the same perspective.

Well, that just goes to show that editors should have a much stronger grasp of the characters that they're responsible for than they seem to these days. I've been saying this.

Otherwise, yeah, full agreement.

[rdman]

Well its a good thing he isnt trying to convince you then

Duggan seems like the anti-fanboy.

[Slicknickshady]

Duggan followed me on twitter for a couple years at one point. Unfollowed late 2020. I didn’t take it personal. It was cool he did for a few years. I don’t think he hates fans.

[Whim]

ugh can Jubilee stop being a babysitter? can't even go to a nice Gala without having to babysit. Let her be her own character again. So tired of Shogo this and Shogo that. It's ruined her character.

as if the depowering and vampire stuff wasn't bad enough. liking Gen X characters is suffering.

[Rang10]

Duggan seems like the anti-fanboy.

Him doing fanservice to Emma frost fans, I don't think so

[superjosh]

If it's true that Duggan hates fans, that makes me like him more lol. We are rotten! I think it's great for us to interact with each other and discuss/debate/argue/inspire(!), but as a whole we still fall so easily into toxic fandom. It's a boiler-room that really not everyone is ok with inhabiting.

I think the way creatives should approach it is to kind of keep tabs on the "pulse" of the room, but never let it be the driving force behind their work. One can definitely draw inspiration from fan input, expectations, and desires... that's 100% awesome. But don't do too much just to please anyone.

[superjosh]

Him doing fanservice to Emma frost fans, I don't think so

That's a big assumption. It could be exactly what he himself wants.

[salarta]

@Sal...

The crux of it really is...we're not part of the discussions among and between the creatives about a character, characters and the stories being told. (And honestly I don't think it would be easy or enjoyable for us, if we were). And only having a response and reaction long after the fact. From that perspective, I can only give them the benefit of the doubt that they wrote the character(s) and the story from positive place.
Though I am sure it happens...I don't think Duggan and Percy and Tini are writing their respective books absolutely hating any of the characters there-in and deliberately writing them atrociously or not at all.

To be clear, I think most writers/editors/etc don't go into their work thinking "I'm deliberately going to do a bad job." I say most because I'm aware some people within Marvel have a philosophy that making people mad is somehow good business. But depending on attitude and approach, work can be bad all the same regardless of stated intent. You can have a philosophy of good customer service, say you're trying to do your best and genuinely believe you are, but be so used to certain routines and assumptions that you don't bother to question any of them or listen to what the customer is really saying.

I can't say where Duggan is coming from as a writer because I honestly don't really know him. I've heard his name a lot but I haven't read, watched, or played any of his work. I've been told some things both good and bad, but I would rather see for myself, and what I've seen in the few preview pages of X-Men #1 released so far looks good.

So imo a reader, if she/he is respecful can actually help to change an editor or writers perspective in a positive manner, because they can´t be expect to have the same reading background a fan of a particular character has or the same perspective.

Agreed that no person can be expected to know everything about every character. I disagree about the "if the reader is respectful" part. As a general rule, they should be respectful, but whether or not they're respectful shouldn't have an impact on whether or not a writer/editor recognizes the substance of views and wants to improve. A problem is still a problem even if the person pointing it out is disrespectful. We wouldn't ignore a serious fault in a program that could expose personal information just because the person who caught it is insulting. In fact, a disrespectful reaction could be an indicator of how serious the problem is. Not always, but sometimes.

[Devaishwarya]

I do not tolerate anyone being obnoxiously rude and disrespectful to me under any circumstance. I cannot imagine a professional being tolerant of such attitude and behaviour whether or not it's for their own "good"...especially in regards to their work.

That's just asking to be dismissed or outright ignored.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Ah. The old "no one has done as much for mutants as Cyclops" bit. Have we circled back around to the Utopia/Fraction era?

Been leaning toward hard pass on this book since the roster was announced and...yeah. lol

[The tall man]

Again I have to ask why the double standard with regards to certain writers and toxic fans? Many are praising Duggan for how he handled certain fans with his tweet, but Remender was castigated for his tweet also aimed at certain fans, so what's the difference? Could it be that Duggan is one of the main writers in the era of Krakoa which so many people love so he gets a pass. Where as Remember is reviled for his according to some infamous "call me Alex" speech and having Wanda tell Rogue that mutants love to play victims. So many are supportive of Duggan and cheer him on for his tweet, yeah we fans can be awful, way to go Gerry; tell those toxic fans to go to hell, they suck. But Remender needs to grow up and act like a professional, how dare he attack the fans. If he can't take criticism then he's in the wrong business. Interesting reaction to both writers and their interactions with toxic fans, one is supported and the other was berated. But like I said it comes down to if you like their work, Duggan is writing Marauders which many love for Emma and Kate and his Planet-X and X-men are about to drop so he gets a free pass. While Remender's Uncanny Avengers was not so beloved so he was given no such pass, he had people calling for his head because he had the audacity to hit back at toxic fans. Funny how that goes.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Remender quit because they were going to make him focus on Inhumans. Actions don't get much more praise-worthy than that.
The reaction to the "call me Alex" thing was pure comedy.