My Adventures With Superman Animated Series Heading to Adult Swim

[Vakanai]

Darkseid is far more overused than any other Rogue besides Lex. Plus I don’t really like him as just a Superman Rogue, I’d prefer to leave him as a JL threat. I don’t think any solo hero should be able to beat him on their own.

In the books sure. But we're talking about outside media. He's been in the DCAU some, like 3 or 4 of the DTVs all together, and the Snyder Cut, barely. That's honestly not that much all things considered.

We’re getting Intergang to start apparently, so they’re beginning small.

I did say big baddie for season two, so that's not in the way of beginning small.

And do you have a source on them starting with Intergang?

[Vordan]

In the books sure. But we're talking about outside media. He's been in the DCAU some, like 3 or 4 of the DTVs all together, and the Snyder Cut, barely. That's honestly not that much all things considered.



I did say big baddie for season two, so that's not in the way of beginning small.

And do you have a source on them starting with Intergang?

Whisper A'Daire and Bruno Manheim are the villains in the first episode.

You’ll have to ask Holt where he got the info, but he’s the one who posted that concept art.

Darkseid was the Big Bad of the old animated shared universes (DCAU, DCAMU), the Big Bad of Young Justice, the Big Bad of Snyder’s JL alongside Superman, a villain in the Harley Quinn animated universe, the Big Bad of Johns JL run, and is now the Big Bad of Infinite Frontier apparently. He’s far too overused imo, and I see no reason to choose him over another Superman villain for the overarching Big Bad of a Season. About the only thing he hasn’t shown up in yet Superman-related is S&L.

I’d pick Brainiac, Khyber, Imperix, Xa-Du, or Vyndyktvx as the Big Bads before him, the general audience needs to start seeing stuff they haven’t seen already when it comes to Superman. That’s why if Zod shows up, I’d want him to be in the mold of Ra’s like he is under Johns & Bendis, the sympathetic evildoer with understandable goals who wants the hero to join him, but must still be stopped. We sort of got that with Shannon but I’d like to see a more slow build about Kal uncovering just who and what Zod really is. Hell I’d pick Mongul and Warworld over Darkseid, least that’s something that could benefit from the worldbuilding/development PKJ is doing with Mongul. Also you could bring in Maxima which would be fun.

[Vakanai]

You’ll have to ask Holt where he got the info, but he’s the one who posted that concept art.

Darkseid was the Big Bad of the old animated shared universes (DCAU, DCAMU), the Big Bad of Young Justice, the Big Bad of Snyder’s JL alongside Superman, a villain in the Harley Quinn animated universe, the Big Bad of Johns JL run, and is now the Big Bad of Infinite Frontier apparently. He’s far too overused imo, and I see no reason to choose him over another Superman villain for the overarching Big Bad of a Season. About the only thing he hasn’t shown up in yet Superman-related is S&L.

I’d pick Brainiac, Khyber, Imperix, Xa-Du, or Vyndyktvx as the Big Bads before him, the general audience needs to start seeing stuff they haven’t seen already when it comes to Superman. That’s why if Zod shows up, I’d want him to be in the mold of Ra’s like he is under Johns & Bendis, the sympathetic evildoer with understandable goals who wants the hero to join him, but must still be stopped. We sort of got that with Shannon but I’d like to see a more slow build about Kal uncovering just who and what Zod really is. Hell I’d pick Mongul and Warworld over Darkseid, least that’s something that could benefit from the worldbuilding/development PKJ is doing with Mongul. Also you could bring in Maxima which would be fun.

1. The DCAU is 20 years old (a little younger if going by it's last episode, a lot older if by the first).
2. He's been in the background of the latest season of Young Justice, but with too little screen time and no actual fights, barring him I think from "Big Bad" status. If anything, Granny Goodness has more of a stake for that season's big bad. Next season though? Who knows.
3. Snyder's JL is an alternate cut of a movie that that bombed, and many people in the GA still haven't bothered to watch it or finish it. And again, like YJ he wasn't the big bad (here that's Steppenwolf)
4. I haven't seen seasons 2+ of Harley Quinn yet.

Seriously though, YJ and ZSJL shouldn't count just for having Darkseid brooding and plotting in the background promising greater things that never materialized. The comics don't count, this is for outside media.

The only real things where he had an actual major presence that actually mattered is DCAU (long time ago), DCAMU, and...maybe Harley Quinn, haven't seen that.

And that's not counting that the majority of people this is aimed at skews younger than you and me - this is for kids and families. Kids are too young to remember the DCAU, too young to be allowed to see the DCAMU.

To non-comics readers, he's not as overexposed or well known as you think.

[SiegePerilous02]

In the books sure. But we're talking about outside media. He's been in the DCAU some, like 3 or 4 of the DTVs all together, and the Snyder Cut, barely. That's honestly not that much all things considered.

That's still quite a lot of content considering he isn't really a Superman character and plenty of actual Superman villains have appeared far less in Superman content. STAS may have ended a while ago, but still that was the last solo Superman cartoon we had and he dominated that one while many Superman villains didn't appear because Bruce Timm thought Superman's mythos was weak. Let's not forget he also appeared in Smallville

Not saying he can't appear, but I agree with Vordan that it'd be refreshing to see rogues who don't nearly get as much play. Bizarro, Mxy, Toyman, Solaris, etc. even Brainiac who still hasn't had a live action film appearance.

[Vakanai]

That's still quite a lot of content considering he isn't really a Superman character and plenty of actual Superman villains have appeared far less in Superman content. STAS may have ended a while ago, but still that was the last solo Superman cartoon we had and he dominated that one while many Superman villains didn't appear because Bruce Timm thought Superman's mythos was weak. Let's not forget he also appeared in Smallville

Not saying he can't appear, but I agree with Vordan that it'd be refreshing to see rogues who don't nearly get as much play. Bizarro, Mxy, Toyman, Solaris, etc. even Brainiac who still hasn't had a live action film appearance.

At this point he arguably is. He's been used as a Superman villain often enough by now to count as one, yes. Even if some prefer him to only be a JL level threat, that ship is somewhat sailed, even if only just a little out of harbor.

And besides, I'm talking about final boss of one season, and not even the first. Everyone's acting like if he appears at all then all other villains getting appearances in the show are wiped out or don't count. Fact is, we're getting Lex, despite him being in everything Superman forever. 50/50 we'll probably get Zod too. And even Brainiac has kind of been overused in animation and will probably appear here too. No ones saying that their inclusion will preclude other villains who don't get as much screen time. And yet if we just add Darkseid somewhere down the road than that Mxy episode is going to have to get scrapped and we'll have to miss out on Bizarro?

I say no! I want Lex! I want Zod! I want Darkseid! But I also want Bizarro, Mxy, Toyman, Solaris, and yes especially Brainiac! God dammit people, Batman gets every single one of his rogues animated and put up on TV, big and small, and we're arguing over how there won't be an opportunity for everybody? Now is the time to get greedy!

[SiegePerilous02]

At this point he arguably is. He's been used as a Superman villain often enough by now to count as one, yes. Even if some prefer him to only be a JL level threat, that ship is somewhat sailed, even if only just a little out of harbor.

And besides, I'm talking about final boss of one season, and not even the first. Everyone's acting like if he appears at all then all other villains getting appearances in the show are wiped out or don't count. Fact is, we're getting Lex, despite him being in everything Superman forever. 50/50 we'll probably get Zod too. And even Brainiac has kind of been overused in animation and will probably appear here too. No ones saying that their inclusion will preclude other villains who don't get as much screen time. And yet if we just add Darkseid somewhere down the road than that Mxy episode is going to have to get scrapped and we'll have to miss out on Bizarro?

I say no! I want Lex! I want Zod! I want Darkseid! But I also want Bizarro, Mxy, Toyman, Solaris, and yes especially Brainiac! God dammit people, Batman gets every single one of his rogues animated and put up on TV, big and small, and we're arguing over how there won't be an opportunity for everybody? Now is the time to get greedy!

Lex, Zod and Brainiac are part of the franchise though, so even though they are overused they get a pass because they actually belong there. Darkseid really isn't, or shouldn't be. He's been used often enough that he probably counts at this point, and the Fourth World is definitely connected the most to the Super mythos out of the other IPs, but at the end of the day it's still not a part of it. The main reason the trend really started in other media is that Bruce Timm thought Superman's villains sucked and was drawn more to Kirby's stuff anyway.

Yeah kids these days aren't old enough to remember the DCAU, but this is a golden opportunity to get kids to appreciate the Superman mythos for itself instead of relying on a general overused DCU villain as an unneeded crutch. Time to break the trend. Batman DOES get most of his villains on screen, but there is no need to pull in unrelated villains because his mythos is strong. Same with Spectacular Spider-Man using exclusively Spidey villains. I think we should afford Supes the same courtesy. The Legion of Superheroes should be afforded more screen time than any Kirby stuff as they have a much stronger connection, and they only appeared in one episode of STAS>

[Prime]

Vakanai, is right. Darkseid, whether you want it or not, IS a Superman villain.

[Frontier]

I think Zod has a better chance of appearing than Darkseid in this show.

[SiegePerilous02]

Vakanai, is right. Darkseid, whether you want it or not, IS a Superman villain.

He probably can be counted as one at this point, but I say this is a good opportunity to start breaking the trend
Or at least, give it a little break.

[Prime]

He probably can be counted as one at this point, but I say this is a good opportunity to start breaking the trend
Or at least, give it a little break.

Remember the was the final boss in STAS and Smallville.

[Vordan]

1. The DCAU is 20 years old (a little younger if going by it's last episode, a lot older if by the first).
2. He's been in the background of the latest season of Young Justice, but with too little screen time and no actual fights, barring him I think from "Big Bad" status. If anything, Granny Goodness has more of a stake for that season's big bad. Next season though? Who knows.
3. Snyder's JL is an alternate cut of a movie that that bombed, and many people in the GA still haven't bothered to watch it or finish it. And again, like YJ he wasn't the big bad (here that's Steppenwolf)
4. I haven't seen seasons 2+ of Harley Quinn yet.

Seriously though, YJ and ZSJL shouldn't count just for having Darkseid brooding and plotting in the background promising greater things that never materialized. The comics don't count, this is for outside media.

The only real things where he had an actual major presence that actually mattered is DCAU (long time ago), DCAMU, and...maybe Harley Quinn, haven't seen that.

And that's not counting that the majority of people this is aimed at skews younger than you and me - this is for kids and families. Kids are too young to remember the DCAU, too young to be allowed to see the DCAMU.

To non-comics readers, he's not as overexposed or well known as you think.

1. Doesn’t matter, especially given how streaming services have revived old content for fresh audiences. The DCAU is extremely well known even to kids who didn’t grow up watching it on CN
2. All the more reason not to have him in this show given he’s been constantly involved in a show already that has been steadily building up to him for years
3. So? It was still a high profile release that got a lot of attention
4. So?

He’s overexposed. Even if you think he’s not, there are other options I listed who have far less outside awareness than he does that could help show there’s more to Superman’s Rogues Gallery than people think. No, he shouldn’t be in this show and I hope he’s not. Not when there are other Superman specific villains that he doesn’t have to share with the wider DCU. It’s time to focus on them and bring awareness of them to the next generation.

[I'm a Fish]

Vakanai, is right. Darkseid, whether you want it or not, IS a Superman villain.

I've never seen him appear in any Superman media outside the DCAU. How often does he show up in Superman comics?

At this point he feels more tied to Wonder Woman since his daughter keeps popping up in her books, not that I want Darkseid to be a Wonder Woman villain, far from it in fact.

[SiegePerilous02]

Remember the was the final boss in STAS and Smallville.

Yeah but that's exactly why the trend could use a break, if not be broken entirely. Superman has his own mythos, he doesn't need a Big Bad from another one

1. Doesn’t matter, especially given how streaming services have revived old content for fresh audiences
2. All the more reason not to have him in this show given he’s been constantly involved in a show already that has been steadily building up to him for years
3. So? It was still a high profile release that got a lot of attention
4. So?

He’s overexposed. Even if you think he’s not, there are other options I listed who have far less outside awareness than he does that could help show there’s more to Superman’s Rogues Gallery than people think. No, he shouldn’t be in this show and I hope he’s not. Not when there are other Superman specific villains that he doesn’t have to share with the wider DCU. It’s time to focus on them and bring awareness of them to the next generation.

Agreed, but I think the presence of Intergang means we might not get our wish though

[I'm a Fish]

Does anyone know who the girl on the right is?

[Vordan]

Vakanai, is right. Darkseid, whether you want it or not, IS a Superman villain.

He has personal beef with Clark for sure, and I don’t mind that, but for the last decade or so he’s been the JL’s Big Bad rather than Clark’s specifically. He was the Big Bad of Johns JL, which like it or not, was the intro JL book to a lot of new people.

I think Zod has a better chance of appearing than Darkseid in this show.

Weirdly enough not really. Zod has never really been the focus of anything animated wise, wasn’t his JL Action appearance the first time he was in a cartoon? It’s kinda wild he hasn’t been in an animated movie or anything, but I do think he’ll be showing up in this. Like it or not, Man of Steel reestablished him as an important Superman Rogue.

I've never seen him appear in any Superman media outside the DCAU. How often does he show up in Superman comics?

At this point he feels more tied to Wonder Woman since his daughter keeps popping up in her books, not that I want Darkseid to be a Wonder Woman villain, far from it in fact.

During the 00s he showed up all the time which is sort of where the idea that he was a Superman villain made its way from the DCAU to the comics. BUT he debuted in an issue of Jimmy Olsen of all characters, so the tie between the Fourth World and Superman has always been there. There was the Supergirl arc of Superman/Batman, he played a role in Loeb’s Superman stuff, and he was used elsewhere within the Superman comics as well, as were his Rogues. Final Crisis also established how much he hates Superman in particular:


You know what though? I wouldn’t mind using the Female Furies as Superman Rogues. He lacks a lot of female Rogues and the Furies are A. Serious threats and B. Cool looking. I wouldn’t mind them being used in this show as Superman Rogues.