Injustice movie

[Gaius]

TBF, I don't know if DCAU Harley has as much blood on her hands as Injustice or mainstream canon comic counterparts, so her quietly retiring at least and not bouncing around on the JL is an easier pill to swallow.

Still, her "Moral Event Horizon" in the the DCAU is still aiding the Joker in torturing a teenager to insanity, which is horrendous enough. So if Timm got his original wish and she fell to her death, it would have been more fitting.

Fair enough on DCAU Harley, I was more just trying to point that Injustice didn’t originate this idea of Harley getting villain cred by being the Joker’s sidekick but not getting the same treatment as Joker does. It’s present there in even her first incarnation.

But yes aside from RotJ, broadcast standards meant she and Joker were more reigned in than they are in comics or video games. So there was only so much they could get away with.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

i feel like the Harley problem could have easily have been avoided. Why not say she was in Arkham at the time? I don't want them to water her down, she should still have a lot of blood on her hands. But making her an accomplice to the bloodbath that breaks Superman was such a weird story choice.

[DochaDocha]

It really does emphasize the difference in writing quality when it comes to characters. Jean wipes out an entire planet, shows immense guilt and remorse for it and takes herself out at the end of the story to prevent it happening again. The X-Men need a night to think over whether or not they want to even help her, and she's family to them. Because what she did is just that bad.

Harley meanwhile doesn't mean anything personally to any of the JL members and shows little to no remorse for her crimes, yet here she is anyway. It's a bad look for everyone

I like to pretend that there's someone who's involved with the creation of all these Harley stories who's like us and thinks the way WB handles Harley is total horse doodoo and that the message of these stories that this person is trying to send is completely meta: protect Harley at all costs, no matter how s****y the character has become. No crime she commits is too horrible for them to disparage the character or have her face any real consequences.

And it's not that I inherently dislike Harley. I really liked Dini's original take on the character but the modern take is hogwash.

[SiegePerilous02]

Fair enough on DCAU Harley, I was more just trying to point that Injustice didn’t originate this idea of Harley getting villain cred by being the Joker’s sidekick but not getting the same treatment as Joker does. It’s present there in even her first incarnation.

But yes aside from RotJ, broadcast standards meant she and Joker were more reigned in than they are in comics or video games. So there was only so much they could get away with.

You're not wrong, it definitely is still there even in BTAS. I think it's a little more justified there though. Like you say, Joker and Harley had to be reigned in more, so the Joker is already "tamer" than he is in the comics by now. And Harley is a few levels down on the evilness scale compared to that along with everyone pitying her to some degree for being seduced/manipulated by him.

It's why she hasn't worked nearly as well when moved to different continuities. Even in that one, she still deserved what was coming to her. Everywhere else when the Joker is even worse and she goes right along with him and accumulates her own atrocities? It's awful

[Gaius]

I know Jim Shooter was unpopular among a lot of comic book fans, but you kind of wish whoever was in charge of overseeing all these Harley-related projects that Harley has done very little to repay her debt to society the way Shooter pointed out you can't just let Jean/Dark Phoenix off the hook after destroying a star system and killing billions. Harley's a few orders of magnitude behind DP in that sense, but someone with influence on the creative process should stop turning a blind eye to this.



I think Vordan pointed out that spoilers:

the pregnant Lois is not Man of Tomorrow Lois, but rather the Lois of a Superman of another universe who was already dead. Do you mind if I call her "Uncle Lois Parker" due to the resemblance to finale of Spider-man: The Animated Series?

end of spoilers

Huh, you're right. spoilers:

That is what they did in the finale of the 90s Spider-Man show

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

He beat Lobo! He helped keep Lex in jail! For a rookie Superman he’s done ok, his Injustice counterpart is much older and more experienced given Murderman is married to his Lois so I wasn’t too bothered by it. Or maybe I’m just numb to Supes jobbing lol. I like that they’re rapidly establishing him as more experienced because I’m hoping we get another Criss Superman movie that features more of his villains. Still waiting for something like “Hush” or “The Long Halloween” where we get Supes fighting through his entire Rogues Gallery. I’d go with Ending Battle, that would actually be a good follow up to this Injustice movie given you could contrast the two.

I dunno, Lex betrayed him and J'onn was the one who caught Lex again, but he still beat Lobo (although J'onn also kind of helped with that one).

I miss when Superheroes were self-sufficient (and I like sidekicks).

I don’t know—-it’s always hit me hard.

It has always felt legit disgusting to me that Harley emerged as a hero of the Injustice comics “taking down Superman” when she was one of the two people responsible for harming Lois’s body, murdering her and then blowing up the city.

Harley literally caused Superman’s mental break in Injustice and the fact that it’s glossed over in the comics has always been absolutely disgusting. It can’t be worse bc I already think it’s horrendous.

She became too much Taylor's pet character.

Yeah it’s another Earth’s Lois not the Tomorrowverse one voiced by Daddario, it’s ok guys I already spoiled the entire ending

At least Laura Bailey wasn't totally wasted (I assume).

It really does emphasize the difference in writing quality when it comes to characters. Jean wipes out an entire planet, shows immense guilt and remorse for it and takes herself out at the end of the story to prevent it happening again. The X-Men need a night to think over whether or not they want to even help her, and she's family to them. Because what she did is just that bad.

Harley meanwhile doesn't mean anything personally to any of the JL members and shows little to no remorse for her crimes, yet here she is anyway. It's a bad look for everyone

Accountability in Superhero comics doesn't have the best track record these days.

[Godzilla2099]

Batman is such a hypocrite. He decides Harley who had a direct hand murdering a pregnant woman is good enough to recruit into the JLA but heaven forbid Superman kills the SOB that murdered his wife and unborn child.

Yes, I understand Superman became irredeemable when he murdered Batson but still, being the father of a 9 month old, I feel sympathy for him. I don't care how popular Harley is. She also deserved a death penalty in my books.

[Frontier]

Batman is such a hypocrite. He decides Harley who had a direct hand murdering a pregnant woman is good enough to recruit into the JLA but heaven forbid Superman kills the SOB that murdered his wife and unborn child.

Yes, I understand Superman became irredeemable when he murdered Batson but still, being the father of a 9 month old, I feel sympathy for him. I don't care how popular Harley is. She also deserved a death penalty in my books.

At least Green Arrow took her back to Arkham.

[Gaius]

At least Green Arrow took her back to Arkham.

Gotta say, as someone who was ambivalent on GA before Injustice. That franchise did him no favors in my book, especially with how many harped on about him being one of highlights. Can’t really say aiding and abetting a woman who nuked a city for the lolz escape any form of justice endeared me to him. Ditto for Canary.

Why were we supposed to be sad when he got killed again.

[Frontier]

Gotta say, as someone who was ambivalent on GA before Injustice. That franchise did him no favors in my book, especially with how many harped on about him being one of highlights. Can’t really say aiding and abetting a woman who nuked a city for the lolz escape any form of justice endeared me to him. Ditto for Canary.

Why were we supposed to be sad when he got killed again.

...But he tried to take her to prison to face justice? He just didn't want her to get executed without due process ?

Like it was less aiding and abetting and more like being stuck with her when they were going up against the Regime, which really didn't have anything to do with her personally from what I remember.

Although now that I think about it I remember Harley making the situation at Arkham worse.

[Gaius]

...But he tried to take her to prison to face justice? He just didn't want her to get executed without due process ?

Like it was less aiding and abetting and more like being stuck with her when they were going up against the Regime, which really didn't have anything to do with her personally from what I remember.

Although now that I think about it I remember Harley making the situation at Arkham worse.

I’m referring to their entire brain dead BFF friendship between Quinn, Canary, and GA they had over the course of the franchise. Not just the first time they interacted.

[Jabare]

So which film is more depressing? Injustice or Justice League Apokolips Darkseid War?,

[Guy1]

So which film is more depressing? Injustice or Justice League Apokolips Darkseid War?,

Darkseid War at least gets retconned away at the end by time travel, sooo I'd go with Injustice.

[Vordan]

...But he tried to take her to prison to face justice? He just didn't want her to get executed without due process ?

Like it was less aiding and abetting and more like being stuck with her when they were going up against the Regime, which really didn't have anything to do with her personally from what I remember.

Although now that I think about it I remember Harley making the situation at Arkham worse.

She’s the one who releases everyone from their cells in the comics and gets Nightwing killed. She doesn’t face any consequences for that either. God I hate Injustice Harley, she really is a Mary Sue.

[Frontier]

I’m referring to their entire brain dead BFF friendship between Quinn, Canary, and GA they had over the course of the franchise. Not just the first time they interacted.

She’s the one who releases everyone from their cells in the comics and gets Nightwing killed. She doesn’t face any consequences for that either. God I hate Injustice Harley, she really is a Mary Sue.

Oh, I totally get that. It's just up until that point she wasn't getting a free pass, in-so-far from the law-abiding heroes' perspective.

Darkseid War at least gets retconned away at the end by time travel, sooo I'd go with Injustice.

From what I'm reading, the Apokolips War ending was more coherent by comparison, at least.