Wonder Woman in animation general discussion

[BiteTheBullet]

If I remember right Doomsday just tossed Aquaman aside like he was nothing.

Even Superman basically got the @#$% kicked out of him and was only able to basically commit to a mutual kill.

Well, at least not without probably dying too, but that's kind of the point of fighting Doomsday in the first place.

(Shrugs) I thought it was a good fight scene.

Tossing Aquaman aside would be inconsistent to how they portray him to Diana. Looks like they gave him loser/jobber status also. Yet, didn't he kick the leagues ass in the Atlantean Justice League animated movie?

The fact is that they needed Superman, even if it was a mutual kill to stop Doomsday. And at the end of the day, Superman did not die, but was in hibernation--recuperating, right?

In the end if that is all we can say, that it was a good fight scene, but hold on a second, it was just a holding motion until the real 'brick' comes so he can save the day, it sounds like all Wonder Woman was and is a jobber. She did take on Doomsday before in her own comic book under Byrne. I guess there are some authors that don't mind if Wondy actually wins sometimes.

[WonderLight789]

Tossing Aquaman aside would be inconsistent to how they portray him to Diana. Looks like they gave him loser/jobber status also. Yet, didn't he kick the leagues ass in the Atlantean Justice League animated movie?

The fact is that they needed Superman, even if it was a mutual kill to stop Doomsday. And at the end of the day, Superman did not die, but was in hibernation--recuperating, right?

In the end if that is all we can say, that it was a good fight scene, but hold on a second, it was just a holding motion until the real 'brick' comes so he can save the day, it sounds like all Wonder Woman was and is a jobber. She did take on Doomsday before in her own comic book under Byrne. I guess there are some authors that don't mind if Wondy actually wins sometimes.

Sadly, in Byrne run they pointed out that it wasn't the real Doomsday. So it wasn't as strong. And she had to use the gauntlets that boost her strength by 10 in the end of that battle. That was during the period where she was losing her powers and died due to a curse.

[Frontier]

Tossing Aquaman aside would be inconsistent to how they portray him to Diana. Looks like they gave him loser/jobber status also. Yet, didn't he kick the leagues ass in the Atlantean Justice League animated movie?

You're thinking of Orm who was basically OP with his trident.

The fact is that they needed Superman, even if it was a mutual kill to stop Doomsday. And at the end of the day, Superman did not die, but was in hibernation--recuperating, right?

For all intents and purposes he was dead and wasn't strong enough to basically win without sacrificing himself.

In the end if that is all we can say, that it was a good fight scene, but hold on a second, it was just a holding motion until the real 'brick' comes so he can save the day, it sounds like all Wonder Woman was and is a jobber. She did take on Doomsday before in her own comic book under Byrne. I guess there are some authors that don't mind if Wondy actually wins sometimes.

I mean, if Superman got absolutely wrecked himself and barely eked out a victory (such as it was) I'm not sure if it shows that badly on the rest of the League.

As far as jobbings go, I've seen a lot worse and more disrespectful.

[Perseus]

Sounds like me and some other posters are on to something with respect to Wonder Woman's 'status' to the rest of the league. She is more 'skilled' but how did that help her against Doomsday? Her magical, indestructible sword (assuming that) is easily broken by Doomsday. Her so called skill and speed no match for the strength and speed of Doomsday.

Yup, they respect the hell out of Diana. This was also her nu52 origin with Zeus as her father, guess that didn't help her much. But gee...she lasted longer than other league members. What a consolation prize!

How long did Aquaman last against Doomsday, because they made sure to let us know in the DCAU and in the Justice Society movie that he was superior to Wonder Woman. He should have lasted longer than her based on his feats against her.

I think Batman's batarangs did more to Doomsday than Diana's sword lol. I could sit here and say that just off of Diana's stats and equipment she should be able to do to Doomsday what Achillies did to Boagrius. Start at 1:42 (its a bit longer of a clip then I'd like)

[Perseus]

There is so much BS in that "fight" too like I really don't wanna get into it.

[WonderLight789]

You're thinking of Orm who was basically OP with his trident.

For all intents and purposes he was dead and wasn't strong enough to basically win without sacrificing himself.

I mean, if Superman got absolutely wrecked himself and barely eked out a victory (such as it was) I'm not sure if it shows that badly on the rest of the League.

As far as jobbings go, I've seen a lot worse and more disrespectful.

SM did what no other could. So WW is not really close to his strength. And her ''superior'' skills, gear and combat speed are irrelevant, That's how it is. Lipservice. And the poster girl for hanging in there for a while, until the one and only SM comes alog to get the job done.

[Frontier]

SM did what no other could. So WW is not really close to his strength. And her ''superior'' skills, gear and combat speed are irrelevant, That's how it is. Lipservice. And the poster girl for hanging in there for a while, until the one and only SM comes alog to get the job done.

I feel like that's really underselling the actual story and depiction, but to each their own.

[BiteTheBullet]

Personally, I don't find Diana lasting slightly longer against Doomsday than everyone else much of a consolation prize. In general, I'm not a fan of any story where Wonder Woman's role boils down to: "Know your place and wait for Superman."

And I'd argue Doomsday really doesn't need to get established as a threat by flattening the Justice League exactly because he goes on to beat Superman to death with his bare hands. I would think that in itself would be enough to prove how dangerous he is.

But, really, it just comes down to the fact Doomsday is a garbage character and the Death part of The Death & Return of Superman is really weak.
As much as DC tries to tout it as the ultimate depiction of Superman's heroism and nobility, it's literally him and a mindless rage-monster punching each other to death. It's the heroes uselessly throwing themselves at a brick wall, just for Clark to do it himself and die when the wall falls on him. No one comes out of this story looking good.

It might not be so bad if there was a compelling reason (or any reason really) why Superman and ONLY Superman can fight & defeat Doomsday. But it really is just punching him really, really hard until he falls down.
And for some reason, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and dozens of other heroes (some of whom are supposed to be on par with Superman themselves) can't punch Doomsday hard enough together, where Clark can do it alone.

I don't want to get too side-tracked into a discussion about Doomsday and the Death of Superman since this a Wonder Woman forum, but if DC is going to keep trotting him out and rehashing this crummy story, I really wish future adaptations would take a page from the DCAU's handling of it. As I said, it added genuine drama and tension without throwing Wonder Woman (or anyone else) under the bus.

There's not much I'll give the Justice League Unlimited writers credit for when it comes to Diana, but I thought they did right by her in that episode.

Which episode are you talking about? The one where Superman fights Doomsday alone inside the volcano?

[phonogram12]

Yeah, it's great if you're a Superman fan lol.

Just shows how meaningless "Superman's stronger but she's more skilled" talking point fans try to use is.

I mean, a lot of Superman fans had just as many complaints about his depiction on the show, too.

It literally cost him his life and 100% everything he had. I don't think it needs to be a feat contest.

Ha! I know you aren't new here, Frontier, but I would definitely ask a poster I wasn't familiar with "are you new here?" this question had they posted it. LOL

[WonderLight789]

I mean, a lot of Superman fans had just as many complaints about his depiction on the show, too.



Ha! I know you aren't new here, Frontier, but I would definitely ask a poster I wasn't familiar with "are you new here?" this question had they posted it. LOL

It doesn't change the fact that he is usually treated better and with more respect than WW. This is the type of topic that truly shows how irrelevant the argument she has better skills and close to SM strength actually is. Her ''amazing'' skills never maje a difference and her near SM strength is nowhere to be seen. She only gets empty lipservice. Totally irrelevant.

[phonogram12]

It doesn't change the fact that he is usually treated better and with more respect than WW. This is the type of topic that truly shows how irrelevant the argument she has better skills and close to SM strength actually is. Her ''amazing'' skills never maje a difference and her near SM strength is nowhere to be seen. She only gets empty lipservice. Totally irrelevant.

I think it's funny how certain posters on here completely ignore that episode of JLU where WW beat Superman. Hilarious, even.

[WonderLight789]

I think it's funny how certain posters on here completely ignore that episode of JLU where WW beat Superman. Hilarious, even.

Because she didn't beat him. He stopped fighting when he realized it was her. And later on the show. Mongul stomped her like a piece of garbage while Superman was shown as the only one with the stats to stop him.

[Gaius]

I mean, a lot of Superman fans had just as many complaints about his depiction on the show, too.

Yeah, but this is the Wonder Woman forum.

[DochaDocha]

I'm just going to headcanon this and say the biggest reason WW lost too Doomsday in the animated movie was because she depended on her sword but it failed her at the worst possible moment. She lost concentration when the sword broke and that gave Doomsday an opening to land the haymaker. They were fighting to a standstill up to that point. Meanwhile, the only reason Superman eventually felled Doomsday was because it was a kamikaze strike.

It vaguely reminds me of the showdown between Saitoh and Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin. If the figurative coin landed on heads, Saitoh would've won. Unfortunately, he picked the vital organ to strike that was secretly armored, and he was too injured to win a duel, so he eventually lost.

I went to YouTube to re-watch the scene, and I think it's hilarious that you can't comment on it because it falls under YouTube Kids.

[Guy_McNichts]

With how much we all debate when and why Diana should use a sword or not, I find it funny one of the few instances where a sword would actually be necessary and come in handy...the bockety piece of crap shatters. Thanks for nothing.


You know, there actually should be stories/scenes built around the idea Diana relying on a sword and shield hinders her more than helps her. Like a fight sequence where the villain easily cuts the shield in half or breaks the sword, but the bracelets and Lasso withstand the attacks no problem.