Wonder Woman in animation general discussion

[Frontier]

I remember that episode of JL. And I was like: It’s wild how they have Diana fighting all these women who aren’t anywhere near her level of strength (Vixen comes closest and she’s not close at all). I would have really been impressed if they had her battle Supergirl too.

[Rightoya]

Idk, she had a few lousy showings and it's weird that her lasso didn't get its truth powers until like 2 seasons in, but overall I think JL/JLU did a pretty good job with WW's power set. Too bad I can't say the same about her characterization and lore...

I don't even think that power was her biggest problem in the DCAU, but i have to disagree with this, or more specifically it is in context true for Season 1, but after that especially Superman and Flash got better while Wonder Woman apart from the lasso stayed just as bad as in Season 1, and Martian Manhunter was just the textbook definition of a jobber in the DCAU even if in contrary to Wonder Woman he had at least in theory some potential with all his powerful abilities.

[Rightoya]

Looks definitively better than in the DCAU, although i would have liked it a lot more if the lasso had kicked out Felix Faust instead of a random anti-male spell that just activates by specifically touching the ground.

[HotBoy]

Let me be clear about what I mean:

I meant Supergirl IN ADDITION to all those other ladies. THAT would have been impressive.

Again, they really do fine showing Wonder Woman in combat situations (except that one time they had Aquaman easily defeat her).

What I'm interested in is displaying feats of PHYSICAL STRENGTH. And in that category, they always downplay Diana's strength, having her lifting tanks with ease, but struggling to stop a missile for example, and having to exert great effort to lift anything bigger than a tank. It's almost like the writers/animators think that such things aren't "befitting a lady."

[bardkeep]

I'm enjoying this conversation, so please excuse me for playing a little devil's advocate. Season 1 is just a mess when it comes to power portrayals for many or even all characters, particularly Superman and Flash. However, if you tracked their power level through the seasons, you can see an upward trajectory. There are a few points within the series in which they explain how restrained Superman and Flash are with their displays of power. But for WW, her power level pretty much plateaued other than unlocking the power of the lasso. What you saw was the extent of her abilities.

I don't even think that power was her biggest problem in the DCAU, but i have to disagree with this, or more specifically it is in context true for Season 1, but after that especially Superman and Flash got better while Wonder Woman apart from the lasso stayed just as bad as in Season 1, and Martian Manhunter was just the textbook definition of a jobber in the DCAU even if in contrary to Wonder Woman he had at least in theory some potential with all his powerful abilities.

All totally fair. I honestly haven't watched JL/JLU in its entirety in a long time. Unfortunately "everyone else grows while WW stalls" also describes her entire publication history...

Hopefully if she gets a solo animated series they really make a point to showcase the scope of her powers. Including talking to animals, of course.

This is a total aside but as much as I like Martian Manhunter, I'll never understand why he's a JL staple - his power set is completely broken and his backstory is too similar to Superman's (or, really, Supergirl's) so he doesn't bring a unique lore/genre niche to the table. He has to be immediately jobbed with an easily-exploitable weakness because if he makes it to the field he can single-handedly solve every problem. Frankly they should tone his physical powers waaay down and purely make him the resident mental powers/shapeshifting guy, even with just that he's pretty unbeatable.

JL Action WW rules, though I could do without the n52 elements (e.g. sword/shield, Superman romance). Good design, spunky and fun without being overly aggro/impulsive, really damn powerful, actually uses the lasso to its potential, very proud of and in touch with her Amazon heritage...pretty much everything she should've been in the DCAU. Also there's an episode where Jessica Walter voices Athena and gives Batman endless **** and that alone justifies the price of admission, much like Rachel Dratch's Hippolyta on Harley Quinn.

[Gaius]

JL Action also accomplished the seeming impossible of having a good use of Circe

This is a total aside but as much as I like Martian Manhunter, I'll never understand why he's a JL staple - his power set is completely broken and his backstory is too similar to Superman's (or, really, Supergirl's) so he doesn't bring a unique lore/genre niche to the table. He has to be immediately jobbed with an easily-exploitable weakness because if he makes it to the field he can single-handedly solve every problem. Frankly they should tone his physical powers waaay down and purely make him the resident mental powers/shapeshifting guy, even with just that he's pretty unbeatable.
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The self-enforcing talking point about Wonder Woman; "she has no good stories", "no great rogues gallery", "too derivative of Superman", "writers change everything about them", is a far more critique of Martian Manhunter than it's ever been of Wonder Woman.

I don't think it's a coincidence the best uses of Manhunter lean into his alien side in ways Superman never can and emphasize more of his mind/shapeshifting abilities (New Frontier).

[Frontier]

JL Action also accomplished the seeming impossible of having a good use of Circe

Good design and voice too:

[Mysterious]

Superman, Zod, Faora, Hulk, Thor, Carol Captain Marvel, Janet thor etc all have far better strength and durability feats than cinematic WW, and some of them also have far better speed feats too. So there is no excuse here, Diana is the only one that is truly super nerfed even for movie standards..

Most of those heroes feats came during the current girl power trend era that we're in right now. Ww appeared debuted in flims way before this started. Mcu op their heroes for competition. Dceu doesn't want ww to be just another flying brick so they strategically focus on her martial arts expertise & weapons so she stands out from the gazillion bricks that's in marvel & dc.

[WonderLight789]

Most of those heroes feats came during the current girl power trend era that we're in right now. Ww appeared debuted in flims way before this started. Mcu op their heroes for competition. Dceu doesn't want ww to be just another flying brick so they strategically focus on her martial arts expertise & weapons so she stands out from the gazillion bricks that's in marvel & dc.

Faora debuted in 2013 in the DCU, Carolin 2019. WW films came in 2017 and 2020. The girl power era started before that. And she still got underwhelming feats of power. And WW has been about girl power since her creation, yet she is the one nerfed the most. A big irony. She has been super nerfed in the comics too the past 10 years, so no excuse there either. And her martial arts are nowhere to be found in her DCeu appearances, her martial art experise and gear didn't save her from getting destroyed by superman in 2 hits, and being unable to do anything to steppen. And it is the same way in the comics. Where they say she is the best warrior in all DC, yet those ''legendary'' skills and gear never make any difference against the top guns like doomsday, superman, mongul, mary marvel, etc where she gets derstoyed by them with complete ease. Even Aquaman has better feats than curret comic and DCEU versions of WW, and has been seen being able to overpower her physically. But sure, her skills and gear make her shine a lot, only when she is fighting fodder. What a great achievement.

[Rightoya]

Most of those heroes feats came during the current girl power trend era that we're in right now. Ww appeared debuted in flims way before this started.

Mcu op their heroes for competition.

Faora was before Wonder Woman, and most of these are men.

Multiple of the named heroes are from the DCEU.

Dceu doesn't want ww to be just another flying brick

Any person with that idea should never be allowed to work on anything related to Wonder Woman, that silly excuse has in 100% of all cases just lead to bad things.

so they strategically focus on her martial arts expertise & weapons

so she stands out from the gazillion bricks that's in marvel & dc.

Do they call that strategy the phantom-method, because there was 0% martial arts expertise and maybe 10% impressive weapons use of Wonder Woman on display in the DCEU?

She did not stand out very much as she jobbed to Steppenwolf, and even less as Superman shat all over the Justice League.

[Frontier]

[WonderLight789]

I don't like they presented supergirl as the strongest, and how badly WW performed against zod and others.

[Frontier]

I don't like they presented supergirl as the strongest, and how badly WW performed against zod and others.

Fair. But I thought they had a good handle on Diana's personality, ethics, and she still did some cool stuff on the show.

[DisneyBoy]

What I'm interested in is displaying feats of PHYSICAL STRENGTH. And in that category, they always downplay Diana's strength, having her lifting tanks with ease, but struggling to stop a missile for example, and having to exert great effort to lift anything bigger than a tank. It's almost like the writers/animators think that such things aren't "befitting a lady."

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I've got to disagree here. She's shown throwing around all different kinds of spaceships in the various finale episodes, withstanding a severe beating from Mongul and walking clear through a direct sonic ambush from Col. Vox.

I don't think the show kept her stuck at "dainty" at all. The bigger problem was that they viewed her through the male gaze and thought her being a tough girl Princess with a crush on Batman was sufficiently entertaining.

There was no ambassador, no spirit of truth, no stop a war with love....none of that.

But it was a team show that needed to whittle people down to one or two traits for the sake of expediency.

[WonderLight789]

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I've got to disagree here. She's shown throwing around all different kinds of spaceships in the various finale episodes, withstanding a severe beating from Mongul and walking clear through a direct sonic ambush from Col. Vox.

I don't think the show kept her stuck at "dainty" at all. The bigger problem was that they viewed her through the male gaze and thought her being a tough girl Princess with a crush on Batman was sufficiently entertaining.

There was no ambassador, no spirit of truth, no stop a war with love....none of that.

But it was a team show that needed to whittle people down to one or two traits for the sake of expediency.

Getting destroyed by mongul is not a good feat, when she didn't even damage him at all. And the best she did was throw around a space tank in the finale of the show, which we don't even know how much that weights.