Wonder Woman in animation general discussion

[BiteTheBullet]

He gave us very definite answers.

She's biologically 39. She was 90 in S1. Amazons are immortal on the Island. She is made of clay and blessed by the Gods.

Her being blessed doesn't mean they gave her immortality different from the Amazons.



PG isnt from E1. Simple.

I guess that makes her about the same age as Gal Gadot.

PG not being from E1 doesn't make it simple (do we now need a guide that tells us that different earths effect kryptonians differently?). I can guarantee that a writer like Gail Simone, when she tweeted that out, did not even think about different earths when she make that statement.

[Primal Slayer]

I guess that makes her about the same age as Gal Gadot.

PG not being from E1 doesn't make it simple (do we now need a guide that tells us that different earths effect kryptonians differently?). I can guarantee that a writer like Gail Simone, when she tweeted that out, did not even think about different earths when she make that statement.

Who cares if she didnt think of a different Earth. Not everything doesnt need to be spelled out to a T. I'm sure there are continuities where E2 kryptonite doesnt affect E1 Kryptonians just like we know E3 Kryptonians get stronger with Kryptonite.

[Frontier]

She's "immortal" so they like to explore that and add history to her. But having her be 15/16 when she goes to Mans World and deciding to leave seems like a pretty good idea.

And relevant on a show about teen heroes.

[Perseus]

I dont think anything has been revealed about Steve. Everything we know about Diana/Donna have been from twitter/AskGreg lol

Here's all we know about WW/Donna

1. This last question is about Wonder Woman . On the Young Justice website it lists invulnerability as one of her powers. I've always wonder ed, if she's invulnerable, why block bullets with her bracelets?
I have never thought of Wonder Woman as invulnerable for the exact reason you state: why bother with the bracelets, if the bullets would bounce off anyway?

2. Wonder Woman became a superhero in 1941, when she was 16 years old. Left Mans World in 1946. Returned 9 years before Team Year Zero. No longer uses the Diana Prince secret ID. Was 90 during S1 so should be around 100 in S4.

3. Likely that she was dubbed " Wonder Woman " by the press. Perhaps the first photo of her was taken at a distance, and they didn't realize how old she was or wasn't. (She is an Amazon, and was tall for her age.)

3. At the start of Team Year Ten, Diana is biologically 39 (more or less).

4. How strong/invulnerable is Blockbuster? Could he fight Superman or Wonder Woman one on one or is he much lower on the power house chart?
1. He could fight either one on one. Though Superman's combination of powers would make it very tough for Blockbuster to win. I'd say he'd have a better shot against Wonder Woman . Even odds.

5. Wonder Woman is strong but not as strong as Superman

6. Troia is also a Princess. Biologically 20. Chronologically 78.

7. Troia may have used the alias Donna Troy when she was on the Team, but Donna isn't her real name. How we LABELED the designs behind the scenes to avoid confusion doesn't reflect the in-universeness of the fact that had she been there and had anyone addressed her by name, they would've called her Troia, not Donna.

8. Troia is not stronger than Superboy. Has comparable strength to Cassie.

9. Troia joined the team in Year 2

10. What does Wonder Woman think of Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream? After all, her mother is a major character in the play.
But she knows that the character called Hippolyta in the play is actually not her mother, but her aunt Antiope.

11. All Amazons are probably a bit stronger than the typical human, but mostly due to training and maybe a bit from the Purple Ray. They're not all as strong as Diana or Troia or Cassie.

Alright, I'll do it, I won't complain about power levels.......for right now. I'll just go over every point he makes with my own opinion.

1. This whole thing is stupid; I've said a million times that Diana being invulnerable doesn't make the bracelets useless. She can use them for blocking literally anything else, it doesn't have to be bullets. Also, this whole argument is pointless when all of Diana's appearances have her with a shield, a shield has a much larger area of protection, by this logic why have bracelets?

2. This timeline seems off when you consider Hippolyta as a character. So, Diana was born in 1925? Hippolyta (and potentially Zeus) waited thousands of years before having Diana? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think having her in WW2 does anything but traumatize a 16-year-old, only for her to come back anyway. Just seems like a done to death teenage defiance of their parent, unless Hippolyta did let her 16-year-old just go with a man to a war with weaponry unknown to the amazons. Assuming this is still bronze age barbarian style amazons with no advanced tech, which tbh probably is.

3. Fine with Diana being called Wonder Woman via press

3. Fine with Diana looking like she's in her late 30s

4. He does know that Clark has just heat vision and ice breath over Diana, right? otherwise Diana is a vastly superior fighter (arguably faster) and has access to magic and divine weaponry. basically, what I'm hearing is "the two characters are the same, but the one with decades of skill as a fighter and who has better equipment would lose, actually."

5. This is a generic and frankly boring line of thinking. Diana was created to be Clark's equal in strength and power, its fiction, she can be that powerful.

6-9. I don't like Donna, so I have no real opinion on Troia. She's more background noise to me both in comic and show tbh. Though it doesn't surprise me that he puts her below Superboy.

10. Not important.

11. Amazons shouldn't just be slightly stronger than regular humans. idk what origin he has for then but, it's probably one that involves Vandal Savage. I'm not going to care much for it. Heck, the purple healing ray might even be a gift from Savage lol. Amazons should be like super soldiers a la Captain America, how they get their power is probably a ritual. We don't even know if they're immortal.

Some of you are acting like we are going to get a deep dive into Diana's lore or something in the show, I almost guarantee that this is probably some cliff notes he had on his computer. I agree that Diana and most of the other league members shouldn't really be in the show since they get trampled over anyway to show off the team.

[Primal Slayer]

Alright, I'll do it, I won't complain about power levels.......for right now. I'll just go over every point he makes with my own opinion.

1. This whole thing is stupid; I've said a million times that Diana being invulnerable doesn't make the bracelets useless. She can use them for blocking literally anything else, it doesn't have to be bullets. Also, this whole argument is pointless when all of Diana's appearances have her with a shield, a shield has a much larger area of protection, by this logic why have bracelets?

2. This timeline seems off when you consider Hippolyta as a character. So, Diana was born in 1925? Hippolyta (and potentially Zeus) waited thousands of years before having Diana? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think having her in WW2 does anything but traumatize a 16-year-old, only for her to come back anyway. Just seems like a done to death teenage defiance of their parent, unless Hippolyta did let her 16-year-old just go with a man to a war with weaponry unknown to the amazons. Assuming this is still bronze age barbarian style amazons with no advanced tech, which tbh probably is.

3. Fine with Diana being called Wonder Woman via press

3. Fine with Diana looking like she's in her late 30s

4. He does know that Clark has just heat vision and ice breath over Diana, right? otherwise Diana is a vastly superior fighter (arguably faster) and has access to magic and divine weaponry. basically, what I'm hearing is "the two characters are the same, but the one with decades of skill as a fighter and who has better equipment would lose, actually."

5. This is a generic and frankly boring line of thinking. Diana was created to be Clark's equal in strength and power, its fiction, she can be that powerful.

6-9. I don't like Donna, so I have no real opinion on Troia. She's more background noise to me both in comic and show tbh. Though it doesn't surprise me that he puts her below Superboy.

10. Not important.

11. Amazons shouldn't just be slightly stronger than regular humans. idk what origin he has for then but, it's probably one that involves Vandal Savage. I'm not going to care much for it. Heck, the purple healing ray might even be a gift from Savage lol. Amazons should be like super soldiers a la Captain America, how they get their power is probably a ritual. We don't even know if they're immortal.

Some of you are acting like we are going to get a deep dive into Diana's lore or something in the show, I almost guarantee that this is probably some cliff notes he had on his computer. I agree that Diana and most of the other league members shouldn't really be in the show since they get trampled over anyway to show off the team.

1. If she is invulnerable then she doesnt need to block bullets. Her blocking bullets is pretty iconic. Her having multiple methods to block bullets doesnt make the bracelets useless.

2. There have been A LOT of continuities where Diana is recently created. How is this timeline anymore off?

4. Heat Vision, Cold Breath, Super breath, X-ray vision those do make a difference in a battle. Long range can make a big difference. He never said anything about her being a less superior fighter than Superman, he said if Canary wasnt training the kids (who took down Superboy) then it would be Diana. He does nothing to put down her abilities. It is a very simple "x is physically stronger than y". Nothing says that she cant beat him in battle.

11. Slightly stronger can mean a lot. Being 10x stronger can be considered slightly stronger.

WW was originally created to have her powers go away when she was bound, do we want to bring that back?

No one is acting as if they will deep dive this. We would like to see it deep dived but we aren't stupid to think that she will be explored in any way on this show.

[Agent Z]

Iconography has never been a convincing argument for her to remain vulnerable to bullets either. It's essentially working backwards to defend something that never made any sense given what Diana can endure.

What's more telling is that Donna is weaker than Superboy in this setting despite Superboy already being very weak in this show. Even when a Superman character has their powers reduced, a WW character has to be their inferior.

[Primal Slayer]

Iconography has never been a convincing argument for her to remain vulnerable to bullets either. It's essentially working backwards to defend something that never made any sense given what Diana can endure.

What's more telling is that Donna is weaker than Superboy in this setting despite Superboy already being very eeak in this show. Even when a Superman character has their powers reduced, a WW character has to be their inferior.

I dont see it as any different then people who bruise easier than others. Diana has tough skin, she can hold her breath for long periods of time but she still gotta breathe. But it still doesnt make anymore sense for her to be invulnerable and take time to block bullets instead of just bouncing off of her.

Superboy yeah I agree, I still dont understand why when he is half of Superman that cant even inherit half of his powers that he has to be stronger than Cassie or Donna.

[Guy_McNichts]

For the record, when I said I didn't care for Weisman's ideas re: Wonder Woman and her world, I wasn't just referring to power levels. I don't like any of it.

I've explained in many other threads I don't like Diana involved with a World War. I'm not keen on the 'immortal on Themyscira, mortal in Man's World' thing. I don't like that the Purple Ray is utilized as some kind of half-assed handwave to explain Amazon abilities.

I won't pretend it's not largely my personal taste, but I'm just not big on any of it.
I'll allow that Diana running away from Themyscira to fight while a teenage could be an interesting idea if it was explored or fleshed out, but it's not going to because the show isn't about Wonder Woman or her world which brings me back to my question of why is she even included at all?

But this really just circles back to my growing distaste with Diana existing in a shared universe. It seems here, in Young Justice and as with most things, Wonder Woman and her lore are being bent and contorted to fit into an pre-existing world and its rules/history. And whenever that happens, she diminishes. She shrinks. And I don't just mean power levels.

Arguably this happens to all characters, but it seems to me that it tends to hit Wonder Woman worse than most. Superman and Batman, regardless of context or continuity, are consistently presented as the linchpins of any universe they exist in. Diana just becomes an inconsequential drop in an ocean, and I never like Wonder Woman ending up like that. I want Wonder Woman to be big. To have impact and she never gets to be that when she's one hero among a legion...unless the writer/creator in charge deems her worthy of it. And it would appear Greg Weisman isn't one of those creators. Few are, sadly.
And, again, I don't just mean power levels.

[Psy-lock]

WW being evenly matched with a Bat-villain is BS. Weisman might just join my black list of writers who shouldn't touch WW with a ten-foot pole.

[Perseus]

1. If she is invulnerable then she doesnt need to block bullets. Her blocking bullets is pretty iconic. Her having multiple methods to block bullets doesnt make the bracelets useless.

2. There have been A LOT of continuities where Diana is recently created. How is this timeline anymore off?

4. Heat Vision, Cold Breath, Super breath, X-ray vision those do make a difference in a battle. Long range can make a big difference. He never said anything about her being a less superior fighter than Superman, he said if Canary wasnt training the kids (who took down Superboy) then it would be Diana. He does nothing to put down her abilities. It is a very simple "x is physically stronger than y". Nothing says that she cant beat him in battle.

11. Slightly stronger can mean a lot. Being 10x stronger can be considered slightly stronger.

WW was originally created to have her powers go away when she was bound, do we want to bring that back?

No one is acting as if they will deep dive this. We would like to see it deep dived but we aren't stupid to think that she will be explored in any way on this show.

A shield makes the bracelets useless though, no? Why block with your bracelets when you can lift your shield up or be fast enough grab it from behind you? She can block bullets to redirect them, prevent someone from getting hit with a ricochet, show off, a scare tactic for armed criminals.... there are a lot of reasons. Yeah, its iconic, she can still do it and be invulnerable.

Told you, Hippolyta waiting that long doesn't sit right with me, seems ooc. Hippolyta, who desperately wants a child, waits literally thousands of years to craft one, even after reaching paradise? Or if we go with Daddy Zeus, Zeus just decides to go down to Hippolyta sometime before 1925 to get her to sleep with him? I bet the reasoning was him fearing Darksied or something, so he "gave" the amazons a weapon. I just don't like young and fresh Diana is all.

Diana has a razor-sharp tiara that she can use to cut demons, gods, and superman. A lasso that is indestructible and can be used as a whip. Her bracelets emit a powerful shockwave that can knockback gods and creatures like Doomsday. If we are going with all her powers, she technically has access to Zeus's lightning. He didn't have to say anything about her being "a less superior fighter". The question was if A character could fight characters X and Y one on one. He said yes, but that character X would have an easier time via powers and that Y would have a harder time. I'm saying that it's kind of a flawed reasoning to think that when character Y is a better fighter and has better equipment for fighting. Which again falls back to that boring way of thinking that Superman is just more powerful than Diana, and that we should just come to terms with that when it wasn't always the case and does more harm than good.

What if he meant only 2x as strong? slightly is too vague for an answer for me.

TBH, Diana losing her powers because she was bound had more symbology and reasoning then being about to get bled out by a bullet shot. But, obviously no, I wouldn't want that weakness back, I've made my list of weaknesses that make sense for her character already like 10 times.

[Perseus]

Iconography has never been a convincing argument for her to remain vulnerable to bullets either. It's essentially working backwards to defend something that never made any sense given what Diana can endure.

What's more telling is that Donna is weaker than Superboy in this setting despite Superboy already being very weak in this show. Even when a Superman character has their powers reduced, a WW character has to be their inferior.

Yup, you said it right here.

[Primal Slayer]

A shield makes the bracelets useless though, no? Why block with your bracelets when you can lift your shield up or be fast enough grab it from behind you? She can block bullets to redirect them, prevent someone from getting hit with a ricochet, show off, a scare tactic for armed criminals.... there are a lot of reasons. Yeah, its iconic, she can still do it and be invulnerable.

Told you, Hippolyta waiting that long doesn't sit right with me, seems ooc. Hippolyta, who desperately wants a child, waits literally thousands of years to craft one, even after reaching paradise? Or if we go with Daddy Zeus, Zeus just decides to go down to Hippolyta sometime before 1925 to get her to sleep with him? I bet the reasoning was him fearing Darksied or something, so he "gave" the amazons a weapon. I just don't like young and fresh Diana is all.

Diana has a razor-sharp tiara that she can use to cut demons, gods, and superman. A lasso that is indestructible and can be used as a whip. Her bracelets emit a powerful shockwave that can knockback gods and creatures like Doomsday. If we are going with all her powers, she technically has access to Zeus's lightning. He didn't have to say anything about her being "a less superior fighter". The question was if A character could fight characters X and Y one on one. He said yes, but that character X would have an easier time via powers and that Y would have a harder time. I'm saying that it's kind of a flawed reasoning to think that when character Y is a better fighter and has better equipment for fighting. Which again falls back to that boring way of thinking that Superman is just more powerful than Diana, and that we should just come to terms with that when it wasn't always the case and does more harm than good.

What if he meant only 2x as strong? slightly is too vague for an answer for me.

TBH, Diana losing her powers because she was bound had more symbology and reasoning then being about to get bled out by a bullet shot. But, obviously no, I wouldn't want that weakness back, I've made my list of weaknesses that make sense for her character already like 10 times.

A sheild doesnt make bracelets useless. If she loses her shield, she has her bracelets that are right there on her arms.

That reasoning is perfectly fine then if it wasnt just a slight at Weisman.

Weapons are not the same as powers. Heat Vision is not the same as throwing a tiara. She doesnt have access to Zeus's lightning, she is born of clay, she isnt his daughter. If you want to interpret his answer in the always negative, that's your prerogative. The user clearly states powerhouse In my eyes its clearly talking about strength.

They are stronger than men. If you take a man at his peak strength, they are stronger than that. It doesnt need to be defined to the T. imo.

[Perseus]

A sheild doesnt make bracelets useless. If she loses her shield, she has her bracelets that are right there on her arms.

That reasoning is perfectly fine then if it wasnt just a slight at Weisman.

Weapons are not the same as powers. Heat Vision is not the same as throwing a tiara. She doesnt have access to Zeus's lightning, she is born of clay, she isnt his daughter. If you want to interpret his answer in the always negative, that's your prerogative. The user clearly states powerhouse In my eyes its clearly talking about strength.

They are stronger than men. If you take a man at his peak strength, they are stronger than that. It doesnt need to be defined to the T. imo.

At that point they are just accessories; lose the shield then use the bracelets, lose the bracelets.... and she's done for? I still haven't heard of a good reason to keep her vulnerable to bullets though. You argue that it's because of iconography, but its flimsy at best.

But a fight is more than just powers. He also asks specifically if Blockbuster could win against Superman or Wonder Woman or if he just isn't powerful enough to even try. You need to be in the same league as someone to enter the ring or have a chance, but those chances get significantly higher with skill and tools.

I think being stronger than "peak man" isn't all that impressive.

[Primal Slayer]

At that point they are just accessories; lose the shield then use the bracelets, lose the bracelets.... and she's done for? I still haven't heard of a good reason to keep her vulnerable to bullets though. You argue that it's because of iconography, but its flimsy at best.

But a fight is more than just powers. He also asks specifically if Blockbuster could win against Superman or Wonder Woman or if he just isn't powerful enough to even try. You need to be in the same league as someone to enter the ring or have a chance, but those chances get significantly higher with skill and tools.

I think being stronger than "peak man" isn't all that impressive.

How would she lose her bracelets? Of course if she isn't invulnerable and is being shot at by a semi right on and not dodging it....then yeah she'd be done for at a certain point. If a kryptonite bullet hits superman in his heart, he's done for. Being bullet proof and blocking bullets is just as flimsy.

How strong/invulnerable is Blockbuster? Could he fight Superman or Wonder Woman one on one or is he much lower on the power house chart?

This clearly has nothing to do with skill. Black Canary is nowhere near as strong as Conner and yet she manages to best him. This is no different than Superman/Wonder Woman.

[Gaius]

For the record, when I said I didn't care for Weisman's ideas re: Wonder Woman and her world, I wasn't just referring to power levels. I don't like any of it.

I've explained in many other threads I don't like Diana involved with a World War. I'm not keen on the 'immortal on Themyscira, mortal in Man's World' thing. I don't like that the Purple Ray is utilized as some kind of half-assed handwave to explain Amazon abilities.

I won't pretend it's not largely my personal taste, but I'm just not big on any of it.
I'll allow that Diana running away from Themyscira to fight while a teenage could be an interesting idea if it was explored or fleshed out, but it's not going to because the show isn't about Wonder Woman or her world which brings me back to my question of why is she even included at all?

But this really just circles back to my growing distaste with Diana existing in a shared universe. It seems here, in Young Justice and as with most things, Wonder Woman and her lore are being bent and contorted to fit into an pre-existing world and its rules/history. And whenever that happens, she diminishes. She shrinks. And I don't just mean power levels.

Arguably this happens to all characters, but it seems to me that it tends to hit Wonder Woman worse than most. Superman and Batman, regardless of context or continuity, are consistently presented as the linchpins of any universe they exist in. Diana just becomes an inconsequential drop in an ocean, and I never like Wonder Woman ending up like that. I want Wonder Woman to be big. To have impact and she never gets to be that when she's one hero among a legion...unless the writer/creator in charge deems her worthy of it. And it would appear Greg Weisman isn't one of those creators. Few are, sadly.
And, again, I don't just mean power levels.

Yeah, I’ve not gotten the impression Weisman has any particular interest in Wonder characters outside of “they’re DC characters and I want all the toys in the toy box on my show”. The most they did with Cassie is make her Robin’s arm candy. But arm candy for her Bat or Super equivalent seems to be the only thing comic writers want out of Cassie, so he’s being accurate to the comics there at least.

I guess it’s better than Timm where he had about the same interest but Weisman at least hasn’t made Diana want to bang his self-insert fanta—I mean Batman.