Spider-Man comics treatment of women

[Agent Z]

One of the biggest problems with comics in 2021 is elitism. You rarely see interactions with heroes and ordinary people ( let alone have one as a love interest). Peter with MJ is an exception. Let’s keep it that way. Not to mention, she is a great character ( maybe the best female character ever created at Marvel). Why take a chance and mess it up with a gimmick?

This is only really an issue in team books. Plenty of superheroes regularly interact with normal people in solo runs or miniseries.

There are also plenty of superheroes who aren't gods, millionaires or celebrities.

[Spiderfan001]

That is in-world reasoning which is irrelevant. Any author can make any character parrot any point they want to make it seem like a good idea.

The way I see it, they've given Spider-Gwen the little girls & young women aspiration market (identifying with a superhero who kicks ass & wanting to be her) which by all rights should have belonged to MJ that is sad. It both angers & disappoints me as a 616 MJ fan. Giving 616 MJ the mantle would have only expanded her appeal and deepened her character not reduced either aspect.

Except a lot of authors have done it.It goes back a long time and is a big part of the character.Spider-man had a internal monolgue where he says that MJ can hang up there with Superheroes and that she is just as brave as him without the Spider-bite.
I agree Spider-gwen shouldn't be a 616 thing.But almost every other Superheroine in comics serves the same purpouse.
I feel your logic is saying that giving Barbara her legs back is better because as Batgirl she has a wider appeal.(except you want to give someone powers instead of doing a contreversial story )
Like barbara in a wheelchair makes a difference is much more inspiring than her being batgirl.
You are literally saying that she needs superpowers to be be more relevant but the fact that she does what she does without superpowers makes her an inspiration.
Again the once in a while gadget ass kicking is always welcome but if you turn her into a super-hero you take away from a lot her character is.

[CosmiComic]

This is only really an issue in team books. Plenty of superheroes regularly interact with normal people in solo runs or miniseries.

There are also plenty of superheroes who aren't gods, millionaires or celebrities.

Yeah, none of that is more elitist than, let's say, putting on a mask and acting above the law.

I also wouldn't call MJ the best female character at Marvel.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

This is only really an issue in team books. Plenty of superheroes regularly interact with normal people in solo runs or miniseries.

That's kind of the point. Normal people aren't worth featuring in main events, or stories of importance. Whereas in ASM, you can have supporting civilians play a big part in major stories on one of Marvel's biggest titles.

There are also plenty of superheroes who aren't gods, millionaires or celebrities.

The Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the X-Men all qualify, and between them that's a huge chunk of heroes.

If you mean Moon Knight, Daredevil, and Cloak and Dagger, that's a smaller chunk than you assume.

[PeterParked]

Fictional characters involved in dramatic narrative tend to have a dramatic life, it kind of comes with the job.

[PeterParked]

I really do not think OMD was sexism it was simply a story that was created out of fear: Fear that Marvel’s cash cow named Peter Parker will no longer make them as much money if he was allowed to age. They did not care whatever collateral damage happened to other Characters. Obviously history has shown that they were incorrect, and the public will not only accept but actually buy non-Peter Spider characters ( Miles, Gwen and as much as I dislike her Cindy are examples of this). Looking at OMD through the lens of 2021, the only reason this dreadful comic remains is stubbornness by Marvel. They have a history of refusing to admit something flat out sucks, because they think the “House of Ideas” cannot possibly create a bad story, and even if it did they are smart enough to fix it. I think of what is being done with Miles: In most people’s opinion, OMD and Clone Saga are in the Top 10 worst stories in Spider-Man ( Peter) history. So why do you repeat those stories with him? They sucked the first time around. Why not put their minds together and come up with original Miles stories instead of “Hand me down stories” of Peter’s (especially when they sucked the first time around)? Does this mean the creative industry cannot come up with good remakes? No the Maltese Falcon proves you can, so did The Equalizer with Denzel Washington. But more often then not, they fail. Charlie’s Angels with Kristen Stewart is an easy example. Marketing Research shows few people want to see her in a movie ( this is especially true of guys), so why cast her? Of course, the result was as projected: The film bombed).

The problem of this line of reasoning is that, as usual, it takes the opinion of a minority of hardcore fans (fans enough to go on comics website, discuss on forums and so on) and pretend is the reader’s opinion while the great majority of readers just wants entertainment and doesn’t really care. How many people discuss in this forum? 50? 100? How many are Americans and buy in comic shops? How many forum there are? And even if each forum had completely different users (and this is not the case, because a lot of the same people discuss in cbr and bleedingcool and newsarama etc.) how many can be this in total? 1000? 2000? Even if they were 5.000 (they aren’t), it’s what? 1 to 2 percent of the readership? Let’s triple it’s just to go crazy, 3% of the readership? I mean…

[NC_Yankee]

The problem of this line of reasoning is that, as usual, it takes the opinion of a minority of hardcore fans (fans enough to go on comics website, discuss on forums and so on) and pretend is the readerÂ’s opinion while the great majority of readers just wants entertainment and doesnÂ’t really care. How many people discuss in this forum? 50? 100? How many are Americans and buy in comic shops? How many forum there are? And even if each forum had completely different users (and this is not the case, because a lot of the same people discuss in cbr and bleedingcool and newsarama etc.) how many can be this in total? 1000? 2000? Even if they were 5.000 (they arenÂ’t), itÂ’s what? 1 to 2 percent of the readership? LetÂ’s triple itÂ’s just to go crazy, 3% of the readership? I meanÂ…

It goes without saying you are correct, and few people really care about OMD and fewer care about Clone Saga, Sins Past etc. But there is still a price to be paid for alienating fans.. Ratings for The Oscars are proof of that. Why were they down? The nominated films “stars” etc were movies the average person never heard of ( let alone saw or even wanted to see ( even if they came with the Netflix subscription)). As for Spider-Man, guess what? People can lose ( or never develop) interest in Peter Parker. Why? There are alternative Spider characters and forms of entertainment. “Cancel Culture” can work both ways. I can tell you I stopped watching Penn State after the Sandusky incident ( for those unfamiliar with it please look up). When I moved to Arizona, I became an Arizona State fan ( and even after moving to North Carolina I still am). I left ASM after Silk and did not return until Slott left, and if OMD does not go I will leave and not return. Why? While I certainly acknowledge it is Marvel’s right to do whatever they want with their characters ( they own them). It is my right not to invest my time and money if I disagree. Again Cancel Culture works both ways

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The problem of this line of reasoning is that, as usual, it takes the opinion of a minority of hardcore fans...

Show me evidence that OMD was a popular and well-liked story.

...(fans enough to go on comics website, discuss on forums and so on)

And you are...what exactly?

...How many people discuss in this forum? 50? 100?

There's an actual number of Views on the Spider-Man forum for this thread alone:
Views: 1,458.

How many are Americans...

What does being an American got to do with anything?

...and buy in comic shops?

This is the 21st Century. People buy stuff online via comixology these days, or Marvel Unlimited and so on and so forth. Or they pirate stuff.

How many forum there are?

Again there are actual numbers for each thread and forum. If you are really interested, maybe email the mods and ask them for statistics.

[WebLurker]

I also wouldn't call MJ the best female character at Marvel.

On the other hand, she has outlasted and gotten better character development then most other love interest characters in the genre.

Who would your vote be for best?

[Celgress]

Except a lot of authors have done it.It goes back a long time and is a big part of the character.Spider-man had a internal monolgue where he says that MJ can hang up there with Superheroes and that she is just as brave as him without the Spider-bite.
I agree Spider-gwen shouldn't be a 616 thing.But almost every other Superheroine in comics serves the same purpouse.
I feel your logic is saying that giving Barbara her legs back is better because as Batgirl she has a wider appeal.(except you want to give someone powers instead of doing a contreversial story )
Like barbara in a wheelchair makes a difference is much more inspiring than her being batgirl.
You are literally saying that she needs superpowers to be be more relevant but the fact that she does what she does without superpowers makes her an inspiration.
Again the once in a while gadget ass kicking is always welcome but if you turn her into a super-hero you take away from a lot her character is.

I am indeed saying that because this is an action story at the end of the day. With Oracle, she is still directly contributing to the action element by helping to coordinate matters, providing training advice for new recruits due to her past, solving relevant puzzles, and investigating the crimes/criminals thus helping out the team a great deal (or Batman in certain cases), not so MJ who often times has gotten in the way. The two things are NOT the same whatsoever.

[Spiderfan001]

I am indeed saying that because this is an action story at the end of the day. With Oracle, she is still directly contributing to the action element by helping to coordinate matters, providing training advice for new recruits due to her past, solving relevant puzzles, and investigating the crimes/criminals thus helping out the team a great deal (or Batman in certain cases), not so MJ who often times has gotten in the way. The two things are NOT the same whatsoever.

I see your point but if we are to go by that logic then every character would be action oriented.Characters like May Parker,Mary Jane Parker,Alfred Pennyworth,Iris west,Jarvis(the butler) are good examples for characters that bring so much to the table without being directly in the action.Having characters not involved in the action means the story has a chance to do much more than without these characters.It's up to the writers to make such characters important enough without giving them Super-powers.They bring something much more important than action to the stories, they bring the Heart.

[Celgress]

I see your point but if we are to go by that logic then every character would be action oriented.Characters like May Parker,Mary Jane Parker,Alfred Pennyworth,Iris west,Jarvis(the butler) are good examples for characters that bring so much to the table without being directly in the action.Having characters not involved in the action means the story has a chance to do much more than without these characters.It's up to the writers to make such characters important enough without giving them Super-powers.They bring something much more important than action to the stories, they bring the Heart.

I think it will widen the character's popularity given the action-orientated nature of comic books that's it end of my point. I have nothing more to say I haven't already said in this thread. If you disagree fine, but I see no reason to rehash this discussion with you or anyone else as I'm, frankly, tired of doing so.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I also wouldn't call MJ the best female character at Marvel.

These days, I'd say she's better than Susan Storm, She-Hulk, Karen Page (except for the BORN AGAIN story), Mockingbird, among others. X-Ladies like Jean, Storm, Kitty Pryde I'd rank on-par or higher.

MJ is still one of the best female characters in Marvel comics. She was unquestionably the best female character by the end of the 1960s and the best until Claremont-Byrne launched the Phoenix Saga.

[CosmiComic]

On the other hand, she has outlasted and gotten better character development then most other love interest characters in the genre.

Who would your vote be for best?

Idk if I'd put a "best". It's possible other female characters haven't been really been pushed properly. She's the main love interest of the most published Marvel hero, so naturally she'd get more development

These days, I'd say she's better than Susan Storm, She-Hulk, Karen Page (except for the BORN AGAIN story), Mockingbird, among others. X-Ladies like Jean, Storm, Kitty Pryde I'd rank on-par or higher.

MJ is still one of the best female characters in Marvel comics. She was unquestionably the best female character by the end of the 1960s and the best until Claremont-Byrne launched the Phoenix Saga.

I guess so? She's a good character but she's not really someone who is her own hero or hugely affects the universe.

[Spiderfan001]

I think it will widen the character's popularity given the action-orientated nature of comic books that's it end of my point. I have nothing more to say I haven't already said in this thread. If you disagree fine, but I see no reason to rehash this discussion with you or anyone else as I'm, frankly, tired of doing so.

Fair enough.You want the character to have more of a spotlights and see that this is the only (effective) way whereas I would say preserve her uniqueness and find other means to make her more popular even if they are not as effective.I am tired to.Just a difference of opinion.No ill will.