At this point, X-Men Team books publishing is the Most Stable Franchise

[CosmiComic]

Isn't ir better in the end if there isn't one franchise dominating the others?

[Username taken]

Isn't ir better in the end if there isn't one franchise dominating the others?

Absolutely.

Marvel is in a much better place now because back in the day it was all X-men all the time. I still read X-men like I mentioned in my earlier post but I read a lot more mainline titles than I did back in the day.

A number of characters outside the line have found audiences and i think thats the way to go ultimately.

No point in banking on a single line of books from a particular corner of the universe.

EDIT: I mean much better in the sense that they have successful books outside of the X-line. In absolute terms, sales were much much higher back in the day.

[Castle]

Absolutely.

Marvel is in a much better place now because back in the day it was all X-men all the time.

A number of characters outside the line have found audiences and i think thats the way to go ultimately.

No point in banking on a single line of books from a particular corner of the universe.

I dont think any disputing that, although I think it explains a lot how some folks did not want to accept some of the core facts of the xmen universe, especially the themes of discrimination and prejudice, you do realise it is because of this kind of stories that xmen has stood the test of time. you cannot erase it, Marvel had a far better chance or replacing xmen with inhumans than anyone trying to erase the mythology of the xmen just because it made other Marvel movies looks generic. lol

No it should not be about xmen all time, since not many people want to xmen get extremely disney-fied anyway. I rather have XMEN end their movie with Logan though the only good thing is that marvel would at least stop messing with their comics, which is what we care about the most, most spiderman and xmen fans never cared that much about movies.

[Castle]

We get you hate Marvel movies.

Also the other properties DO have their own universes. Some larger than others.

Also some of those properties had success before those movies.

Some like Antman had nothing yet found audiences.

Some like Rocket Raccoon and Squirrel Girl were in limbo for years and found audiences.

Marvel despite EVERYTHING and EVERYONE did succeed.

As for stable-X-Men have avoided the nonsense that has derailed some books.

However that same stability has hindered growth-we are still waiting on the X-Men to be more than pretty white people in front while POC get crumbs.

That stability that keep Storm from getting a solo while Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl & Ms Marvel took on hate and saw 4-5 year runs.

Unlike Spidey and even Batman who did not let stability lead to complacency and have way too many folks running around with solos and building their own universes (Spidey more than Batman).

Movies should stay out of comics in terms of cooperate greed influence. this is what I disliked the most. Also I don't hate marvel movies anymore than I hate fast and furious or transformers or any other big cgi blockbuster summer films. those movies serve their purpose, I just dont see them as deep thinking or few purely artistic crafted movies by their directors.

I am not into the superficial POC argument anymore. we exhausted it on the TV/Film forum. Also Username Taken already made a thread about something similar , but for xmen , we brought all the hard facts and evidence to show X-Men does not need bad token POC characters. I say this as a POC myself. give me the story first, not tokens characters. There are many POC Mutants that are far more interesting than other marvel characters because they are in a more interesting self contained world.


Also none of those properties had any significant success. the only properties that had success was Spiderman, X-Men, Hulk, F4, Daredevil and Blade or let me just say the proprieties marvel sold of when they were close to bankruptcy.

I hope one day marvel would admit, how messy 2010s was for them in comics, creative wise. I mean what did they gain in the long run when they cancelled Fantastic 4 comics and had some X-MEN join Avengers and pretended Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were not mutants anymore? They were doing this because they did not have the movie rights.

X-MEN in particular, the IP did not loose all that much. their comics still sold enough that marvel could not just cancel it as they did with F4 , Also in this era, they put out some of their best films DOFP, Deadpool and Logan.

Additionally F4 gained huge sympathy from many fans because their 2015 film flopped in the most embarrassing of ways and Marvel was now cancelling their comics.

Lastly the grand delusion and media propaganda that Iron Man is now the poster boy of marvel and can now compete with Batman, was the biggest laugh moment Spiderman fans ever had in that decade. I think this the most ridiculous moment of the 2010s for Marvel when they were trying to screw their other properties that belonged to Sony and Fox in film rights because of cooperate greed.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Marvel is in a much better place now because back in the day it was all X-men all the time.

When it was X-Men all the time in the late-80s and early-90s, Marvel was:
a) Independent.
b) Made money selling comic books

As opposed to today, where Marvel is owned by Disney and exploited largely for merchandise and media material, where the comics mainly exist as a boutique industry subsidized by Disney as a kind of charity.

So I find it dubious to argue that Marvel is in a better position now just on this basis. Because better in terms of what? And better in expense of what?

The Avengers' became prominent because someone kneecapped the X-Men for a decade or so. Whereas in the 1980s, the Avengers had a great run under Roger Stern, Simonson had a great run on Thor, and all the titles had strong support and showing and the X-Men came out on top in a fair fight.

I made reference to March and April but I only posted the link for April.

Okay going by March 2021
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-03.html

10 9 Demon Days X-Men
14 18 Avengers#43
15 20 X-Men#19

So I am still looking for the smoking evidence that shows clearly that Avengers is doing oh-so-much better than X-Men titles, lol.

With the exception of the main X-men book the other parts of the line are doing average and some have been cancelled already.

Isn't the fairer comparison to ask how Savage Avengers and other Avengers spin-off titles are doing compared to the X-Men satellites? It's impressive that Marauders and Excalibur have lasted as long as it has, as has X-Force, three satellites still active from Phase 1.

These satellite titles were never truly meant to last anyhow.

The truth is other titles like Hulk, Thor, the aforementioned Avengers and the Spider-man are outselling most X-titles.

The actual data we have shows Avengers titles in the months you cite finishing below an X-title both in March and April. So I don't really see any evidence in support for your claim.

In either case, a couple of lean months doesn't mean that Hickman's entire launch from 2019-2020 which includes successful events like X of Swords, means that it's not doing well. That's childish reasoning. Especially since the data points for March and April you cite don't provide evidence for your claim.

Better luck next time.

[Username taken]

When it was X-Men all the time in the late-80s and early-90s, Marvel was:
a) Independent.
b) Made money selling comic books

As opposed to today, where Marvel is owned by Disney and exploited largely for merchandise and media material, where the comics mainly exist as a boutique industry subsidized by Disney as a kind of charity.

So I find it dubious to argue that Marvel is in a better position now just on this basis. Because better in terms of what? And better in expense of what?

The Avengers' became prominent because someone kneecapped the X-Men for a decade or so. Whereas in the 1980s, the Avengers had a great run under Roger Stern, Simonson had a great run on Thor, and all the titles had strong support and showing and the X-Men came out on top in a fair fight.



Okay going by March 2021
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-03.html

10 9 Demon Days X-Men
14 18 Avengers#43
15 20 X-Men#19

So I am still looking for the smoking evidence that shows clearly that Avengers is doing oh-so-much better than X-Men titles, lol.



Isn't the fairer comparison to ask how Savage Avengers and other Avengers spin-off titles are doing compared to the X-Men satellites? It's impressive that Marauders and Excalibur have lasted as long as it has, as has X-Force, three satellites still active from Phase 1.

These satellite titles were never truly meant to last anyhow.



The actual data we have shows Avengers titles in the months you cite finishing below an X-title both in March and April. So I don't really see any evidence in support for your claim.

In either case, a couple of lean months doesn't mean that Hickman's entire launch from 2019-2020 which includes successful events like X of Swords, means that it's not doing well. That's childish reasoning. Especially since the data points for March and April you cite don't provide evidence for your claim.

Better luck next time.

I don’t know why you’re getting emotional about Avengers selling more than X-men or X-books not selling that well.

I mentioned it earlier that first issues generally sell better. And I mentioned “ongoing X-titles”, I wasn’t including new issues in my post. I mean, most X-titles don’t even break the top 50, it’s right there in the data. Outside of new launches, Avengers are selling better than X-men, maybe there’s some reason for this like variant covers or something but that’s what the data shows.

But you can continue ranting against the facts though. I’m not going down this road and I’m not arguing with folks that against accept nor check basic data. I did that in the politics thread and I’m done with that.

But feel free to have the last word, I’ll continue the discussion with others based on the hard data and not your emotion.

[CosmiComic]

Absolutely.

Marvel is in a much better place now because back in the day it was all X-men all the time. I still read X-men like I mentioned in my earlier post but I read a lot more mainline titles than I did back in the day.

A number of characters outside the line have found audiences and i think thats the way to go ultimately.

No point in banking on a single line of books from a particular corner of the universe.

EDIT: I mean much better in the sense that they have successful books outside of the X-line. In absolute terms, sales were much much higher back in the day.

Yeah, I think banking too much on one series can be limiting, at least for a huge universe as Marvel. If someone isn't a fan of the mainline books, they can always find another character they can follow. Personally, I'd rather not go backwards in those terms

Doesn't mean everything is good now

[Crimz]

The X-books are doing well right now but who knows how things will look in a few years time or whenever this current X-Men era ends.
Things change, especially in comics and popularity rises and falls, only Spider-Man and Batman are the true stable franchises as they've been the most popular for decades. So yes the X-Men books are the most stable team right now in terms of sales/popularity, and I believe a big part of it is because there is a writer behind the franchise with a clear and compelling vision of what to do. Many of the other books don't have that, the current FF run is doing absolutely nothing worthwhile and the Avengers is just...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don’t know why you’re getting emotional about Avengers selling more than X-men or X-books not selling that well.

Projection is a hell of a thing.

[carmoc1234]

The X-books are doing well right now but who knows how things will look in a few years time or whenever this current X-Men era ends.
Things change, especially in comics and popularity rises and falls, only Spider-Man and Batman are the true stable franchises as they've been the most popular for decades. So yes the X-Men books are the most stable team right now in terms of sales/popularity, and I believe a big part of it is because there is a writer behind the franchise with a clear and compelling vision of what to do. Many of the other books don't have that, the current FF run is doing absolutely nothing worthwhile and the Avengers is just...

yea this is all very true. spider man is the only franchise who doesn't need a a consistently good writer because he's been marvels golden goose since the 60's. he will always sell. as much as x men fans may not want to admit it the franchise can fall and not sell as well as other marvel properties if good writers aren't there to hold it up. before wein and claremont the x men had stopped putting out new books and were just reprinting the old stories because no one was that interested in the series. then the mid 70's and 80's happened and they rivaled even spider mans popularity. unless your spider man it really does come down to to writer.

[Username taken]

The X-books are doing well right now but who knows how things will look in a few years time or whenever this current X-Men era ends.
Things change, especially in comics and popularity rises and falls, only Spider-Man and Batman are the true stable franchises as they've been the most popular for decades. So yes the X-Men books are the most stable team right now in terms of sales/popularity, and I believe a big part of it is because there is a writer behind the franchise with a clear and compelling vision of what to do. Many of the other books don't have that, the current FF run is doing absolutely nothing worthwhile and the Avengers is just...

Avengers is horrible. Like, really terrible but it's still selling well.

I competely dropped off FF because it was boring.

The X-franchise is pretty big in terms of the sheer number of titles. No other line has that many titles but a lot of them are doing just "fine".

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html

A good of chunk of other mainline titles are selling more than the X-books. The main X-men book (i.e Hickman's book) is selling well the rest of the line isn't all that great.

And I honestly don't see that as a bad thing. It's good that other titles in the line are doing good.

[Username taken]

yea this is all very true. spider man is the only franchise who doesn't need a a consistently good writer because he's been marvels golden goose since the 60's. he will always sell. as much as x men fans may not want to admit it the franchise can fall and not sell as well as other marvel properties if good writers aren't there to hold it up. before wein and claremont the x men had stopped putting out new books and were just reprinting the old stories because no one was that interested in the series. then the mid 70's and 80's happened and they rivaled even spider mans popularity. unless your spider man it really does come down to to writer.

That's the thing, the only X-title selling big now is Hickman's book.

The rest are doing ok to a bit low at the moment.

[Username taken]

Projection is a hell of a thing.

No point, I thought I was actually have a real back and forth based in reality.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The X-franchise is pretty big in terms of the sheer number of titles. No other line has that many titles but a lot of them are doing just "fine".

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2021-04DC.html

For the rest of the board, this link shows and I quote the headline verbatim:
"April 2021 DC Comic Book Sales"

So obviously it doesn't list any Marvel title anywhere.

So again, we have someone who doesn't understand the links they're sharing or, more likely, is banking on people not checking up on the sources and hope that posters have the impression they know what they are talking about by dropping a citation that doesn't make any sense.

Hey, you came at me very hard which I was kind of surprised by because we've almost always generally agreed on stuff.

When you make a bad argument and support it with data that doesn't confirm your claim, and I call you out on it, that's not me coming at you hard.

[Username taken]

For the rest of the board, this link shows and I quote the headline verbatim:
"April 2021 DC Comic Book Sales"

So obviously it doesn't list any Marvel title anywhere.

So again, we have someone who doesn't understand the links they're sharing or, more likely, is banking on people not checking up on the sources and hope that posters have the impression they know what they are talking about by dropping a citation that doesn't make any sense.



When you make a bad argument and support it with data that doesn't confirm your claim, and I call you out on it, that's not me coming at you hard.

And just like that, I've edited my original post. But your post is so,so dumb, like, i posted a citation that anyone could check. Why would I post a citation that could anyone could check and not hope they check it? Please, make this make sense.

Thanks for pointing out my original error. But im surprised at just how dishonest you're being here considering I shared the orignal link with you yesterday and my post wasn't even addressed at you. Worse still, I explained that Avengers is selling more than ONGOING X-TITLES (i have to bold it so you'll finally understand) meaning that issue 1s don't count. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS NOW?

But anyway, just put me ignore if you're so pained by the sales data because I'm only going by that and not that hyperbolic nonsense of "the X-men being on top is the natural order of things" without any sales data beyond your word.

So please, move along and stop replying my posts, you have nothing to add to this discussion beyond angry words. No data, no information, nothing.