Wasting money is subjective. People spend money on things I consider a waster everyday but it's worth it to them
Wasting money is subjective. People spend money on things I consider a waster everyday but it's worth it to them
The J-man
the only person afraid of Lex Luthor is Amanda Waller
The J-man
This tends to align with my views. Now to add my two cents:
I'm not gonna lie. I love Batman. If I see a cool-looking Batman title, I'm gonna grab it. HOWEVER, two things can be true at once: Batman can be DC's most popular and highest-selling property, and at the same time, overreliance on Batman and Bat-family titles can be detrimental to the company long-term.
If the argument that "what sells most should get the most books" always held true, then Marvel would publish only Spider-Man and X-Men titles. Forget about half of the Avengers roster getting any spotlight or solos, let alone Shang-Chi or the Eternals. And yes, those properties are slotted to be the subject of blockbuster movies, but (a) movies have rarely, if ever, impacted comic book sales and (b) those are still two very OBSCURE Marvel properties who've headlined their own solo titles in recent years. Add to that Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy, Champions, Ms. Marvel, etc. and you have a diverse staple of characters outside of just the predictable Marvel mainstays.
Contrast that to DC's line-up. I count about 17 Batman or at least Batfamily-related titles in DC's June solicits. And that's not to mention the titles that aren't technically Batman/Batfamily titles, but in which Batman-related characters are taking the focus, i.e. Titans Academy. And yes, some of those are classic DC titles that have been around for a long time, like Nightwing, Catwoman, and 'Tec. BUT, that still makes up a SIGNIFICANT percentage of DC's current books.
Meanwhile, DC's not even publishing a Green Arrow title right now...in the year of his 80th Anniversary. Well, at least he's getting an anniversary special. I mean, couldn't just one of those spots that went to a Bat-title have gone to giving Ollie, a supposed classic DC character and the guy who's often cited as the honorary 8th member of the Silver Age JLA, a title?
I mean, that's actually one of the reasons that I kinda like Peacemaker and Superboy now taking center focus in Suicide Squad. Because at least it's now reminding people that that team is more than just a place where B-list Batman villains go to work for Amanda Waller and has its own history as its own franchise separate from Batman.
Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 05-30-2021 at 09:02 PM.
And to be fair, Oliver Queen has a pretty big role in two DC titles right now, Justice League and Checkmate. But yes, a solo book would make sense
Last edited by Alpha; 05-31-2021 at 03:45 AM.
I'm sure his appearances in those team books are meant to help build a readership who would follow him into an ongoing series. I don't mean people who always read Green Arrow books but new readers.
GA has some great runs in isolation but his title lacks the consistency like Daredevil. At some point, it seems the title gets a revamp, a major status quo change or the characters gets his personality changed just to keep the book afloat.
If a fan base is big and passionate enough you can rely on it for a long time, obviously not forever but a good while. I feel like I'm always hearing how good Daredevil's books consistently are but AFAIK his books are never among Marvel's best sellers despite the quality.
A passionate fan base trumps quality in a lot of genres. Certain sports teams can sell out their home games, get good TV ratings and sell a lot of merchandise even if they have multiple losing seasons in a row. All because their fans will stick with them no matter what. The Yankees, Lakers, Chicago Bulls, Dallas Cowboys, and others can get fans into the building for years on end even if they suck by relying solely on the attachment the fans have with the team.
Comics are no different, Batman, Spider-Man and Superman are really the only 3 solo franchises that will see readership remain consistent no matter what. There are exceptions of course but by and large their fans will stick with their books even if there's a quality drop. You can't say the same for other characters.
The majority of fans who like characters with no ongoing will probably be desperate for content with their favorite
They'll buy team books that feature that character big role or small, They'll buy a book with a variant of their fave on there, etc
There's very little difference between the two fanbases conceptually they both behave the same. The only divergent point is that one absolutely blames DC for all the problems plaguing a character when you as a consumer should logically be able to control a corporations behavior by benefitting them financially or not.
The only point there is that Batman has a lot of fans whereas DC minor characters have all broken up into sub groups that refuse to support each other and absolutely work against each other.
Marvel fans have firmly consolidated into a big fan group
DC is still dealing with the people who hate Batman so much
And there were plenty more who didn't like the marriage and were glad to see it gone, had a neutral stance either way, or fans who hated the execution of OMD but liked at least some of the stuff afterwards to keep buying.
In short, Spider-Man had way more content and varieties in the opinions of the fanbase that there would be enough diehards to hang on and keep sales up. Whereas Wally fans had Titans and his appearances in Williamson's Flash which they supported, but were unanimous in thinking HiC was complete BS that kneecapped him. And then the follow up was a series spinning out of that written by Scott Lobdell. Spider-Man never had it that bad.
This is complete nonsense and can't be serious.
If they don't see enough sales to justify regularly publishing a character, they could just....respectfully not use them and leave them in limbo until they get a solid pitch they want to take a chance on. With Barry back, there was never a reason why Wally and Linda couldn't just fade into the background a bit to raise their kids, unused but also unharmed. Instead they nuked them from orbit so Batman could stay young (as if aging in comics matters anyway) and Barry could be the One True Flash.
So there is no way for a fanbase to control a big corporation from doing those specific actions, and to say otherwise is seriously out of touch.
Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 05-31-2021 at 09:33 AM.
I have never understood the editorial obsession with pretending Bruce and Clark are still in their 20s. Batman already relies on so much suspension of disbelief ("peak human" athlete or not, he frequently does **** that is impossible for a normal human and has walked away from injuries that would kill a normal person) that having him be 40 wouldn't make any of it harder to swallow.
The point is the corporation will cater to where the money comes from. If a fanbase has committed to bad practices such as ignoring everything then they are also pretty much giving up their power as well. Batman fans have a lot of power because they have cemented that they are were DC gets money from. No other fanbase has lived up to that and that's why it will be unlikely to change in so far as the dwindling comics audience is concerned.
Maybe the movies and tv shows can cause a shift but the comics audience is too small to pull away from Batman like that
Interesting point here though
Objectively speaking aging Batman serves his character zero
It only serves his ever expanding supporting cast and allows them to squeeze more characters in under that banner. Which means more money for DC
DC could publish comics with Bruce in his early 30s or prime for all time but a subset of fans who want to see those supporting cast members will be unhappy. I wouldn't be surprised if DC keeps dealing with this reboot problem because you are pigeonholing in an older batman when all other media is featuring a younger batman. Its even gotten so bad that fans have begun regarding Batman as an older character and not a typical man
The problem happened with Spider-man in Marvel and that's what caused OMD
Flash is similarly dealing with a problem where Wally has gone from kid flash to flash to family man and in some degrees there's no place left for his character to go. He can't replace Barry because Barry has his fans now
He has lapped Barry in development as a man though.
That's its own problem
expect more Flashpoint shenanigans
Multiple DC properties have these same issues and DC unlike Marvel doesn't make the hard decisions they just kick the can down the road for the next decade
Superman has THE WORST continuity snarl in all of comics right now
Explaining the multiple reboots inside of reboots is exactly why nobody expects much from him anymore
Batman being acknowledged to being in his 40s isn't going to break the character. If they even have to keep pretending it's an issue at all. They can just continue to say he's in his vague late 30s and call it a day. DC is the ones who continue to make it a problem by bringing it up as reasons why other characters can't exist or progress. All the Bat-Family can still exist and Bruce can be drawn looking like the youthful black haired blue eyed man without a wrinkle on his skin that he's been since forever. Any fans continuing to complain about the aging will be even more of a minority than they were before. Since if stuff like Wally and his kids can exist while we don't talk about Batman's age, there is little reason for resentment from anybody.
They also don't have to continue to embrace one rigid continuity. They publish all sorts of Batman books anyway, some not even in the main canon, so why not have him age in one version when there is no limit on where he can appear elsewhere? The most iconic stand alone Bat-story of all time, for better or worse, is the one where he is in his 50s.
I also don't think other fanbases should be blamed for being stuck in what is essentially a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If they want to see a character they like, and the only option is turds like Ric or Heroes in Crisis and its fallout...that spending of money will tell DC that that treatment of the character is perfectly fine and keep the door open for DC to continue doing it. If they don't support it, DC will take away the message that there is no interest in the character.
So nobody is really providing an explanation for why certain fanbases aren't getting screwed in those situations. Probably because they themselves are rarely (if ever) in that position, so they can't understand what it is like.
The OG DC heroes like Batman, Superman, Hal and Barry should all be in their 40s.