Are Batfans the Most Greedy Fanbase of all time?

[Goldrake]

That's the thing though, sure a human intimidating metahumans is stupid, but if it's stupid for Bruce it should be stupid for every human. That means no villain should show fear to Lex Luthor whenever he leads a team. Why would Sinestro, Cheetah, Black Adam, etc be intimidated enough to be the 2nd in command or underling to a regular human? This trope isn't exclusive to Bruce anymore than him doing things no real world person could do is. So if Superman and other Leaguers with powers shouldn't be afraid of Bruce, no supervillain should have to do the same.

That's the double standard I'm talking about, it's generally accepted for Lex to be able to somehow scare supervillains and no one bats an eye or calls it out for being stupid but the second Bruce tries it all of a sudden everyone's up in arms.

I'm at a loss at how Bruce fans are the whiniest when Superman, Wonder Woman, Wally West and Dick Grayson fans exist but I guess I'll just have to learn to accept this narrative. Fans of those characters remind me of NBA star Stephen Curry's fans on the NBA reddit page. Huge victim complexes and never accept blame for their favorites shortcomings while attacking the person they see as their biggest enemy. For Steph Curry fans that person is LeBron James and it's Bruce for fans ofvthose DC characters except Wally.

There was a thread in the NBA reddit page proving the sub favors him over LeBron by a large margin despite what Steph's fans always say. Threads and comments praising him are highly upvoted and commented on. Negative ones are heavily downvoted with excuses littering the thread when he has a poor game (which isn't often but still) with LeBron, the one Steph fans claim everyone's biased towards, the opposite's true. Negative LeBron threads and comments are highly upvoted with comments mocking him. Positive ones get a lot of downvotes and comments downplaying his success.

That's Bruce, everyone's convinced the internet's littered with Bruce stans who do nothing but praise him but the opposite looks to be true. Just on this forum posts complaining about him or bashing him get way more activity than positive ones. His divisive moments cause much more fan outrage and attention than any other character and it's not even close.

Let's put it this way, if tomorrow 2 books with Bruce were released: 1 where he goes to a children's hospital and spends the day cheering up sick kids and 1 where he viciously berates the Batfamily, which do you guys think would get talked about more here?

By no means it does not apply to Bruce alone, the concept that these meta humans and DemiGods are afraid of mere human is absurd, and the humans could be allies or enemies. Its absurd that these supervillains cede command to Lex or are scared by him. Just as its absurd that human villains can scare superheroes or go after them.

My point was that Bruce being the mastermind of the team, that he plans with foresight is what makes him a valuable asset to the Justice league. Although sometimes the paths he takes is questionable.
While HQ being on same league makes no sense. Bruce brings alot to the team, what does HQ bring so valuable to these meta humans and Demigods for her to hang around. Besides Superheroes who adhere to such high principles hang with a sexual harasser? What does she has in common with WW, Superman, Flash?

As for Bruce not being praised by his fans on the internet not being true, I don't agree. You can't take this forum as measure of standard. Something I like on this forum is that it groups many people together, with different opinions, discussions can be engaging and interesting, others less so. I noticed that you can find lots of fans interested in characters that usually you don't find that much about. Just see the number of thread pages for certain characters, you might be excused if you think that they are the most popular characters around. It is also a moderated place, that has order, not free for all as on other social media. So we can't say because on CBR forum you don't find that, it does not occur outside this forum.

That batman might generate more interest or controversy is natural, he is one if not the most famous DC character. But that Part of his fanbase are saints is not true and that applies to all fanbases for fairness sake. The most annoying things however if you express a concern, or disagree you are labelled an envious whiner, when people who write that just don't even try to understand that concern.

[abetterday]

Can you link to the source for this sales data?

It's from icv2.com icv2.com/articles/markets/view/48315/april-2001-npd-bookscan-top-20-author-manga-superhero--graphic-novels

[skyvolt2000]

Yes, that is the point being made.

At their height- Wally & Hal never had more than one book nor various other minis or one shots or events or merchandise starring them. Unlike Superman.

The success of Captain Marvel didn't impact Wonder Woman or her films so I don’t know why it’s something people would get upset about. I wasn’t on the forums much in 2019 though so I missed all of that..

The fact you had a very PUBLIC movement led against Cap Marvel led by a former DC employee (who made 40 hours worth of bashing), review bombing, attacks on women in general and hate for Marvel as a whole. That movie still made a BILLION.

While Wonder Woman didn't. She lost to a character Marvel RECENTLY invested in. It's like Miles Morales who has done more in 10 years than ALOT of characters especially POC.

It gets to be a frustration of why did characters who attracted all sorts of Hatred and hate movements succeed while the ones who didn't have that struggled?

It's not so much Carol Danvers but a frustration with DC & WB.

Why do WW, Superman and others KEEP having some issue?

So if the characters you claim they hate reach his level one day, you better believe they're gonna get the Bat-God treatment. I only hope if that day ever comes the fans who hate when Bruce benefits from that treatment keep the same energy and complain just as much if Dick, Wally, Hal or whoever all of a sudden receive it.

At most those guys would have a steady solo but never the number of extra books Bruce has.

There will not be 50 Hal books. Maybe 12 books for the 12 Earth lanterns.

[Pinsir]

I'm sorry, but most people don't cite box office numbers when talking about films. This is a framing you only ever see in the MCU community and it's fetishized to the point that it comes across as a total detachment from how people actually consume and enjoy media. The movie made 822 million too, it didn't struggle, what are you talking about?

Also, we can apply the same logic internally to other MCU films, too, like is any movie that made less than Captain Marvel a failure? Winter Soldier and GotG didn't make a billion dollars, but if you know anything about the MCU community you would know they are more liked than Captain Marvel by far.

[Holt]

The fact you had a very PUBLIC movement led against Cap Marvel led by a former DC employee (who made 40 hours worth of bashing), review bombing, attacks on women in general and hate for Marvel as a whole. That movie still made a BILLION.

All that really illustrates is that nobody in the real world gives a shit about most of the Comicsgate stuff, not a failing on Wonder Woman's part.

[Dred]

Then it has nothing to do with writers being personally biased towards Bruce and more to do with him being their sacred cash cow they're afraid to mess up. If Wally, Hal and Dick all became much more popular than Bruce overnight guess what? The same company you think hates them and favors Bruce would toss him aside like trash and push those 3 like Gods.

DC didn't start treating Bruce this way until he became their most popular character with the most popular franchise. So if the characters you claim they hate reach his level one day, you better believe they're gonna get the Bat-God treatment. I only hope if that day ever comes the fans who hate when Bruce benefits from that treatment keep the same energy and complain just as much if Dick, Wally, Hal or whoever all of a sudden receive it.

I doubt it tho.

These things are handled by editorial and yes, Batman is the cash cow. Batman has its own office that calls the shots over everyone else. It's why they can completely ruin Dick Grayson for the Titans out of nowhere for no reason just to increase the stakes of what's going on in Batman.

There is no day coming. The characters you're listing are the ones who are intentionally made to suffer at the pleasure of Bruce. Wally was explicitly erased from history on the rhetoric that his existing and growing and aging as a character made Bruce Wayne look too old (obviously with the subtext that the man saying that is now confirmed to hate Wally, go figure). Dick got Ric'd, and almost killed in the past on the same reasoning. Two years of misery for anyone who liked Dick purely because it made Batman sadder.

Hal has the benefit of being in Bruce's generation, which is almost certainly a big part of why he came back. He fit the status quo that's been dominant since the 90s so he was fine to bring back and retread.

It is impossible for characters like Dick or Wally to surpass Batman when the company wouldn't even try to promote them in the first place. Not that it'd be likely in the first place, mind you, but a character needs support to rise. Not belittling.

I think it's stupid and bad that being a cash cow means you shit on other characters and I think it's very tiresome how it's seen as not just acceptable, but encouraged by his readers a majority of the time. Very few people who read Batman thought Batman taking out the entire Justice League in a single issue in Endgame was anything more than cool that Batman is so much better and more awesome than the Justice League. It's that kind of mindset and writing and editorially enforced status quo that not only keeps Batman on top, but explicitly puts the rest of the characters below him. We bring up the issues more reasonably in this rather clickbaity thread and it's just met with around the clock "So what? Batman's awesome." arguments in different flavors.

There's only so many times you can see Bruce Wayne completely school and humiliate Clark Kent for years before it becomes apparent why Clark will never regain his status as the more popular character of the two in DC's echelon. It's a toxic grasping at milking a cash cow, feeding it every blade of grass you can muster, while you let your other cows starve to death. And also encourage your cash cow to beat up your other cows.

Strained the metaphor a bit there but you get my point. Just saying "Well that's just how the company is!" isn't a response to the issue. It just sucks that the fans eat it up and have no concern or care for the rest of the universe. Like they'd rather have it just be the Batman Comics Company and let the rest of the universe die so Batman can be a little more plot armor-y.

I know I come off as a Batman hater being on the other side of the argument, but it's not really the case. I love tons of stories involving and revolving around Bruce Wayne. Despite The Flash being my favorite cape franchise, I'm pretty sure I've read more Batman comics just because there's always so many more. At worst I'm more just exhausted with the character's exposure and it's been getting worse rather than better as the years go along, and talking about it gets lain on deaf, uncaring, often vindictive ears.

[The True Detective]

Lebron James has more fans (i'm one of them) than haters, otherwise he wouldn't be at the top of the All Star vote every single year. The same goes for Batman.

And what is your point here? You're complaining that some people on the internet don't like Batman? Why do you care?

You clearly didn't read my post because I was talking specifically about the NBA reddit page, not fans in general and even then LeBron still is the most hated player in the NBA. One of the reasons his games draw more viewers than other star players is because a lot of people hate watch his games in hopes he loses. Same thing with Tom Brady, the New York Yankees, Dallas Cowboys and the Duke Men's college basketball team. They're all the biggest draws in their respective sport partly because a large group of haters watch their games in hopes of seeing them fail.

Why do I care? If why do you care? I see a character I like get constantly bashed and shit on and you ask why I care like it affects you. Why not ask why so many people have an unhealthy hatred of a fictional character. As a Dick fan you can't relate since comic book forums are essentially Dick fanclubs but Bruce fans have to see him get trashed all the time and suck it up and not saying anything because he's the most popular so who cares.

[The True Detective]

When have any supervillains been depicted as being scared of Lex? From what I recall, no villain even likes or respects him and their team ups often end in betrayal or attempted murder.



Oh and what, pray tell, do you think these shortcomings are?



Then you have a very limited experience in this regard. The internet if filled with people singing Batman's praises and why he is superior to everyone else. I've seen blogs claim that he is the only superhero who deserves a movie. It's to the point that any superhero that exists in the normal human archetype gets negatively compared to him, either by fans or by the writers.



Given how many people in the Bat forum hate the Batfamily, something tells me the former will get more attention just because an anti-Batfamily fan wants to troll.

Lex is clearly in charge on any team he's on, the fact that any self respecting supervillain would be ok with being seen as his underling is insulting. The second Lex tried to tell someone like Sinestro what to do he'd be casually launched into the sun. But of course thanks to the writer protection his status grants him that'll never happen to baldy.

"Oh and what, pray tell, do you think those shortcomings are?" easy, Shakespeare. Do you think those characters are perfect without flaws? Does everyone not have shortcomings? Sorry for daring to insinuate those non Bruce Wayne characters are anything but Saints. I'll try not to imply otherwise next time.

You seem to be unaware the internet isn't black and white, it isn't a hive mind of Bruce stans just because a lot exist. You turn a blind eye to the massive amount of hate he gets for some reason. Even though you said the thread saying Wonder Woman and Flash shouldn't lose to him was redundant so even you have to acknowledge all the daily whining about him.

Anti-Batfamily trolls? L.O.L. good one. Were you able to type that with a straight face? You're telling me there are more Anti-Batfamily posters than Bruce haters, here? The same Batforum where all the most active threads are about said Batfamily? I don't even know what to say to that other than laugh.

[Agent Z]

At their height- Wally & Hal never had more than one book nor various other minis or one shots or events or merchandise starring them. Unlike Superman.



The fact you had a very PUBLIC movement led against Cap Marvel led by a former DC employee (who made 40 hours worth of bashing), review bombing, attacks on women in general and hate for Marvel as a whole. That movie still made a BILLION.

While Wonder Woman didn't. She lost to a character Marvel RECENTLY invested in. It's like Miles Morales who has done more in 10 years than ALOT of characters especially POC.

It gets to be a frustration of why did characters who attracted all sorts of Hatred and hate movements succeed while the ones who didn't have that struggled?

It's not so much Carol Danvers but a frustration with DC & WB.

Why do WW, Superman and others KEEP having some issue?




At most those guys would have a steady solo but never the number of extra books Bruce has.

There will not be 50 Hal books. Maybe 12 books for the 12 Earth lanterns.

Wonder Woman was the first financially and critically successful female-led superhero movie. It may not have made as much as Captain Marvel but the latter probably never would have been made without the former. And WW faced its share of sexist backlash as well.

[Rac7d*]

Again I am confused ? Do people wish Batman was in less demand so DC Detective Comics will produce less?

[Agent Z]

Lex is clearly in charge on any team he's on, the fact that any self respecting supervillain would be ok with being seen as his underling is insulting. The second Lex tried to tell someone like Sinestro what to do he'd be casually launched into the sun. But of course thanks to the writer protection his status grants him that'll never happen to baldy.

You still haven't explained how they are written as intimidated by him. Writers don't normally go into any reason supervillains would follow Lex's lead but none have ever implied he scares them. On the other hand, the Joker has been written as being so terrifying that other villains tell stories about him as a way to scare each other.

"Oh and what, pray tell, do you think those shortcomings are?" easy, Shakespeare. Do you think those characters are perfect without flaws?

No. And no one has ever claimed they are, so I'm not even sure how this is relevant. I presumed you were talking about the characters having inherent issues that stunted their popularity and usage.

You seem to be unaware the internet isn't black and white,

Talk about throwing stones in glass houses. Throughout this conversation you've argued that the Internet is filled with nothing but antt-Batman fans but I point out that there are plenty of Bruce defenders and yet I'm the one painting the Internet with too broad a brush.

Anti-Batfamily trolls? L.O.L. good one. Were you able to type that with a straight face?

So now we're pretending that people who hate the Batfamily don't exist?

You're telling me there are more Anti-Batfamily posters than Bruce haters, here? The same Batforum where all the most active threads are about said Batfamily?

The same Batforums that have had no less than eight threads dedicated to attacking the Bat family and where people who hate the Batfamily can post and troll with impunity without worrying about being banned. I joined this forum after it was rebooted in 2014 and even before that, there were plenty who were able to talk all kinds of crap about the Batfamily and that still hasn't stopped. You complain about the Batclan's appreciation threads not getting as much activity as Bruce's own personal thread but if you go to the Superman and Wonder Woman forums, this also applies to them. In Superman's case, he doesn't even have an appreciation thread in his own forum most of the time, usually sharing one with Lois.

The funny thing is that most Batfamily fans would actually like it if Bruce were written as less of a jerk while the ones who hate them have openly admitted to getting a kick out of seeing him abuse them.

I don't even know what to say to that other than laugh.

Seeing as how you don't have much of an argument to begin with, that isn't surprising.

Again I am confused ? Do people wish Batman was in less demand so DC Detective Comics will produce less?

No.

[Agent Z]

Also, I called that other thread redundant because "Flash and Wonder Woman could easily beat Batman" really wasn't saying anything of any real substance and is more of a rumbles thread issue anyway.

[The True Detective]

You still haven't explained how they are written as intimidated by him. Writers don't normally go into any reason supervillains would follow Lex's lead but none have ever implied he scares them. On the other hand, the Joker has been written as being so terrifying that other villains tell stories about him as a way to scare each other.


No. And no one has ever claimed they are, so I'm not even sure how this is relevant. I presumed you were talking about the characters having inherent issues that stunted their popularity and usage.


Talk about throwing stones in glass houses. Throughout this conversation you've argued that the Internet is filled with nothing but antt-Batman fans but I point out that there are plenty of Bruce defenders and yet I'm the one painting the Internet with too broad a brush.


So now we're pretending that people who hate the Batfamily don't exist?


The same Batforums that have had no less than eight threads dedicated to attacking the Bat family and where people who hate the Batfamily can post and troll with impunity without worrying about being banned. I joined this forum after it was rebooted in 2014 and even before that, there were plenty who were able to talk all kinds of crap about the Batfamily and that still hasn't stopped. You complain about the Batclan's appreciation threads not getting as much activity as Bruce's own personal thread but if you go to the Superman and Wonder Woman forums, this also applies to them. In Superman's case, he doesn't even have an appreciation thread in his own forum most of the time, usually sharing one with Lois.

The funny thing is that most Batfamily fans would actually like it if Bruce were written as less of a jerk while the ones who hate them have openly admitted to getting a kick out of seeing him abuse them.



Seeing as how you don't have much of an argument to begin with, that isn't surprising.



No.

They're intimidated by him because they allow him to call all of the shots and take lead of the group. If Joker joined a group with Condiment King and it was clear CK was in charge, that would lead one to believe Joker is either fine with things being that way or intimidated into following his lead.

I remember watching JLU with my sister who doesn't know a lot about comics and she was asking why the other villains followed Lex. Grodd she could understand, a giant gorilla with telepathy and super strength but a guy who's able to bother Superman simply because Superman doesn't kill? Nah, that makes no sense.

On JLU Lex shot Grodd and asked if anyone had any problems with him taking over the group. All the other villains sat there looking terrified and didn't say anything. Heavily implying that despite not having powers he intimidated the others, just like Batman does.

So I don't feel like I'm going crazy you do acknowledge there exist people who hate Bruce Wayne, yes? Simple question. I feel like you deny it because it goes against your everyone loves Bruce and hates the Batfamily narrative. I'm willing to acknowledge the people here who hate the Batfamily but you've literally never do the same for Bruce haters. Despite the 500 threads complaining about him every week.

That thread's redundant because there are tons of others like it on a weekly basis, it's not the first and won't be the last. It's just more proof of the huge anti-Batman sentiment that exists online.

[Jabare]

this thread is easily on the way to 50 pages and it's mostly filled with unsubstantiated opinions and conjecture


I'm here for it

[The Darknight Detective]

Again I am confused ? Do people wish Batman was in less demand so DC Detective Comics will produce less?

My take is they wish Batfans to start buying comics featuring their favorites, but attacking Batman (and indirectly - or even directly - his fans) is just not going to do it. Has anyone seen an example of this happening? Now I have seen people doing the opposite, however, in my ten years on this site.

If fans of non-Bat superheroes want them to succeed, then talk about what makes them special. That could definitely work, especially since I would posit the majority of Batfans enjoy other characters outside of that family. But I have been saying things like this for years now, so I don't expect anything to change in the future. Therefore, all this venting will continue to no avail.