How Would You Would You Consolidate Hawkman's Earth 1 & 2 Origins?

[Timothy Hunter]

Due to the merging of Earth 1 & Earth 2 in the aftermath of Crisis on Earths, Hawkman arguably takes the crown jewel of comicdom's most convoluted characters.

Robert Vendetti's explaination of simultaneous reincarnations is probably the best solution to the character's contradictory history we will ever get, but this doesn't explain why Ancient Egypt and Thanagar both produced Hawk-inspired heroes with virtually the same costumes and usage of Nth/Ninth Metal.

Also to make matters more confusing, in JLA Incarnations #1, it is retconned that the Hawkman and Hawkgirl of the Justice Society of America were the same Hawkman and Hawkgirl of the Justice League of America. If you sit down and think about this for one second, this makes absolutely no sense: the Golden Age Hawks were reincarnated Egyptian royalty while the Silver Age Hawks were extraterrestrial police officers.

The most concise solutions to me are that:

A. Carter and Shiera Hall perished after the dissolution of the JSA and before the formation of the JLA. Kator and Shayera Hol were reincarnations of the originals.

B. The Golden and Silver Age Hawks are completely seperate characters, no reincarnation involved.

The similarities between the two different Hawkmen and Hawkgirls can be boiled down to the an offshoot of the Feitherians(who Infinity Inc readers will be familiar with) migrating to another planet and bring Nth Metal along with them. Over the centuries, these Feitherians evolve into looking more humanoid in appearance, similar to how the Klongons suddenly developed head ridges in Star Trek the Next Generation. Kator and Sheyara are named in homage to their Golden Age counterparts.

As for the Kator and Sheyara introduced in Hawkworld? The same logic applied to them. Either they are reincarnations of the Silver Age Hawks or completely seperate characters. For this to work, the original Shayera and Kator would have to die in between the end of the 1986 Hawkman series and the 1990 Hawkworld miniseries.

[Jim Kelly]

The thing that bugs me the most is having the Justice Society Hawkman also being the Hawkman in the Justice League in their past adventures. It was Katar who butted heads with Ollie, not that other guy.

I also like to see two Hawkmen at the same time in cross-overs.

I would just say that--as was established--Katar's father came to Earth at one time. There's some Thanagarian connection with Egypt and Khufu in the past. The knife is made of Nth metal. It's no coincidence that Carter Hall and Katar Hol are virtually the same name.

Add on that when Katar comes to Earth, he takes the name of Carter Hall, Jr., and pretends that Carter, Sr., is his father--which helps him and Shayera get their positions in Midway City.

Or just put them on two separate Earths like Gardner Fox intended.

[Psy-lock]

Having two sets of Hawks on the same Earth at the same time doesn't make much sense to me, especially since they still share names, occupations and villains. So having them as different reincarnations of the same people is my preferred version. Or just keep them on seperate Earths like they originally were, that's the cleanest solution.

[Timothy Hunter]

The thing that bugs me the most is having the Justice Society Hawkman also being the Hawkman in the Justice League in their past adventures. It was Katar who butted heads with Ollie, not that other guy.

I also like to see two Hawkmen at the same time in cross-overs.

I would just say that--as was established--Katar's father came to Earth at one time. There's some Thanagarian connection with Egypt and Khufu in the past. The knife is made of Nth metal. It's no coincidence that Carter Hall and Katar Hol are virtually the same name.

Add on that when Katar comes to Earth, he takes the name of Carter Hall, Jr., and pretends that Carter, Sr., is his father--which helps him and Shayera get their positions in Midway City.

Or just put them on two separate Earths like Gardner Fox intended.

I love this idea, but it would be more than a little weird that Carter Hall Jr.'s wife has the same name as his father's.

[Lightning Rider]

The thing that bugs me the most is having the Justice Society Hawkman also being the Hawkman in the Justice League in their past adventures. It was Katar who butted heads with Ollie, not that other guy.

Hmm, true. I'd be interesting in hearing the differences between the two personalities fleshed out. In my head they aren't that different.

[bat39]

Honestly, Venditti's explanation is the best one and covers pretty much everything.

Ancient Egypt and Thanagar both produced the same Hawk heroes because that is what these two reincarated souls default to in each life. I dunno 'sequentially' which lives came first - Carter/Shiera or Katar/Shayera - but its not a stretch that both couples became Hawkman/Hawkgirl, as did many other incarnations.

Venditti's explanation allows allows multiple versions to co-exist, explaining any crossovers between the two versions.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Also to make matters more confusing, in JLA Incarnations #1, it is retconned that the Hawkman and Hawkgirl of the Justice Society of America were the same Hawkman and Hawkgirl of the Justice League of America. If you sit down and think about this for one second, this makes absolutely no sense: the Golden Age Hawks were reincarnated Egyptian royalty while the Silver Age Hawks were extraterrestrial police officers...

For anybody not familiar with the history of DC Comics in the 1980s, after Crisis on Infinite Earths, both Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl AND the Silver/Bronze Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman survived the Crisis.

But in 1986's Last Days of the Justice Society, the Golden Age Hawks were sent to fight an eternal, never-ending Ragnarök with most other Golden Age members of the JSA, leaving just the Silver/Bronze Age Hawks on Earth.

In 1989 (about three years after CoIE), there was the three-issue series Hawkworld. It was a new take on an origin for Katar Hol version of Hawkman, but instead of DC having that story take place in the past, DC had it set in the (then) "present day", forgetting they now had to explain all the previous Katar and Shayera Hol appearances since CoIE as well as the fact that Thanagarian technology had been involved in the history of the Justice League and its satellite.

And every time they tried to fix one continuity glitch, they wound up causing one or two more.

[superduperman]

3000 years ago a Thanagarian ship crashed in Egypt and the locals took the metal from the ship and forged weapons from them. In 1940, archeologist Carter Hall finds the ship and learns all about the Thanagarians. He uses the technology there to become the first Hawkman. Using the weapons the locals forged in his fight. In the early fifties, he retires after HUAC shuts down the JSA. Decades later, Kator Hol and Shiera come to Earth searching for Byth who, in turn, came to Earth to find the missing ship. They find out, from the ship's records, that Carter had found the ship and used it's equipment. Finding out the the original Carter Hall died, Kator takes his name and gets a job at the museum in Midway City using the same weapons the original Carter used. You're welcome.

[John Venus]

There was a discussion about this topic in the Silver Age Hawkman/Katar Hol Appreciation Thread.

Some of the suggestions made in that thread:

-The Golden Age and Silver Age Hawks being reincarnations of each other.

-The GA and SA Hawks being separate characters-which I'm in favor of.

-Hawkman's father visiting earth at some point and being inspired by the Golden Age Hawks, hence the similarity in names.

-My suggestion: the Golden Age Hawks visit Thanagar at some point, meeting Katara and Shayera's respective fathers or grandfathers and thus inspiring the names Katar and Shayera. A Thangarian ship crash landing in Ancient Egypt and kick starting the reincarnation stuff still applies. Katar and Shayera arrive on earth and they meet Kendra who is Shiera's great grand niece.

[Superfly Frankenstein]

I think JSA from a few decades back did a great job.

[Ishmael]

3000 years ago a Thanagarian ship crashed in Egypt and the locals took the metal from the ship and forged weapons from them. In 1940, archeologist Carter Hall finds the ship and learns all about the Thanagarians. He uses the technology there to become the first Hawkman. Using the weapons the locals forged in his fight. In the early fifties, he retires after HUAC shuts down the JSA. Decades later, Kator Hol and Shiera come to Earth searching for Byth who, in turn, came to Earth to find the missing ship. They find out, from the ship's records, that Carter had found the ship and used it's equipment. Finding out the the original Carter Hall died, Kator takes his name and gets a job at the museum in Midway City using the same weapons the original Carter used. You're welcome.

This. This is all that's needed.

The more they default to reincarnation this and that and whatever other continuity spin they want, the worse they make things.

[DrNewGod]

I've suggested this elsewhere, but I'll add a spin to it. Long about 1987, I'd say run a miniseries, leave whether it's canon or elseworlds ambiguous. It's basically a DKR for The Hawks.

Prologue: In 1951, Carter and Sheila Hall retire, visit a rising police officer - George Emmet - and tell him something of the future, and how they can help, including arranging jobs and aliases. At an undefined point in the future, Katar Hol, and Shayera Thal have one last adventure that dumps them in Ancient Egypt, where they become Khufu and Chay-Ra. Epilogue: The very aged Halls morn The Thanagarian Hawks' loss, agonizing over having kept so much from them, drawing little comfort from Dr. Fate's assurance that they have protected What Must Be.

Afterward, in The Now, roll forward with Katar and Shayera, and reference their future only cryptically. Let the fans go nuts with theories, but nothing gets canonically erased.

[bat39]

I've suggested this elsewhere, but I'll add a spin to it. Long about 1987, I'd say run a miniseries, leave whether it's canon or elseworlds ambiguous. It's basically a DKR for The Hawks.

Prologue: In 1951, Carter and Sheila Hall retire, visit a rising police officer - George Emmet - and tell him something of the future, and how they can help, including arranging jobs and aliases. At an undefined point in the future, Katar Hol, and Shayera Thal have one last adventure that dumps them in Ancient Egypt, where they become Khufu and Chay-Ra. Epilogue: The very aged Halls morn The Thanagarian Hawks' loss, agonizing over having kept so much from them, drawing little comfort from Dr. Fate's assurance that they have protected What Must Be.

Afterward, in The Now, roll forward with Katar and Shayera, and reference their future only cryptically. Let the fans go nuts with theories, but nothing gets canonically erased.

Hmm...that's a nice one! Fits in well with Venditti's angle actually that they're all reincarnations of each other.

[Jim Kelly]

I love this idea, but it would be more than a little weird that Carter Hall Jr.'s wife has the same name as his father's.

It happens in the best families.

But, I'll let you in on a secret--I never could keep straight the spelling of their names. I was never sure if the two Hawkwomen had the same name or if they were different names. But I recall in Hawkworld that Perry/Paryn had some kind of relationship with Shayera, so maybe he gave her that name, having already met the Hawks on Earth. I think he was the one who established the Hawk police, inspired by the original Hawkman.

[D.Z]

Aliens who lives long and regenerates new bodies. Starts from Golden Age to up.