Superman's Friendships With Green Lantern & The Flash Should Be Played Up More

[SecretWarrior]

Just some random thoughts, but the foundation for the thinking is pretty straightforward-- Outside of his relationships with Batman and Wonder Woman, Superman's superhero friendships don't feel very tight, IMO--especially when compared to other friendships like Blue Beetle and Booster Gold.

From a story mechanic perspective, even the Batman and Wonder Woman friendships have certain flaws centered on genre. Superman is a science fantasy hero, while Batman is crime fantasy and Wonder Woman is high fantasy.

Batman's differing power level but distinct personality creates a lopsided relationship in which Superman benefits more than Batman. Batman is a great guest star in Superman stories because he provides a unique perspective without taking the spotlight, since he's not going to be able to take out Superman-level threats easily. On the other hand, Superman doesn't serve Batman stories very well since his senses, investigative prowess, and power levels should actually resolve Batman-level threats pretty quickly. I think that's why Batman seems to guest star more often in Superman stories than vice-versa. I mean, Batman even appears in the first few issues of the John Byrne reboot origin, but Clark never shows up in Year One to play a similar role.

The magical nature of Wonder Woman's stories and mythos conflict with the scientific nature of Superman's stories and mythos, which makes overlaps in the threats they face relatively infrequent.

By contrast, the Green Lantern and Flash mythologies are science fantasies, like Superman's mythology. The heroes and villains in all three of these mythologies are in similar power tiers. Together, these factors lend themselves to more reciprocal relationships. Additionally, the space and time aspects of the GL and Flash mythologies can help to show other sides of Superman's world and history. We're seeing this with the mutual involvement between Superman and GL in the United Planets. Team-ups with GLs allow writers to explore Clark's role in the larger universe. Similarly, both Superman and Flash have connections to the Legion of Superheroes and developments in the far-flung future. Combined with how Superman appears to be a multiversal constant in Flash stories and in Crisis stories, there seems to be room for Superman writers to use Flash to explore Superman's legacy from a metatextual perspective. Dynamic-wise, I can see Clark actually getting a beer with GL and Flash, as opposed to Batman and Wonder Woman. GL can serve as the informed, smart guy archetype in Superman stories, and Flash can serve as the humorous powerhouse friend archetype.

I don't see a downside with developing these friendships more, and I don't see why it hasn't really been done as much yet. Thoughts?

[Vordan]

Yeah Clark has usually just been work friends with the Flashes and GLs. The problem is he doesn’t really play off either of them as well as Bruce since he and Bruce being such opposites is why the friendship works. Bruce is a human who periodically rejects his humanity while Clark is an alien who attempts to assert his humanity.

I actually like the idea of Clark and Wally being close since they’re both Midwesterners whereas Barry is a city kid which is part of why he and Bruce clicked. I think Clark likes Hal but also thinks he’s a bit of a mess, sees Kyle as the “kid” with Jess and Simon, and loathes Guy but tries not to let that show. He and John I think would work the best together because they’re both leaders who tend to project calm in a crisis and wear a mask of stoicism to keep their inner turmoil hidden from those looking to them for leadership.

But the two Leaguers that I think Clark should absolutely be closer to are J’onn and Arthur. All three of them are outsiders. J’onn and Kal are both aliens, last sons of dead worlds, and I absolutely think it’s been a mistake on DC’s part not to explore their relationship more. Arthur, like Clark also has two names (Arthur and Orin), and I think the two of them should definitely bond over belonging to two worlds but not really perfectly fitting into either. Really would like to see all three in a story together that focuses on their commonalities and differences.

[Frontier]

Yeah Clark has usually just been work friends with the Flashes and GLs. The problem is he doesn’t really play off either of them as well as Bruce since he and Bruce being such opposites is why the friendship works. Bruce is a human who periodically rejects his humanity while Clark is an alien who attempts to assert his humanity.

I actually like the idea of Clark and Wally being close since they’re both Midwesterners whereas Barry is a city kid which is part of why he and Bruce clicked. I think Clark likes Hal but also thinks he’s a bit of a mess, sees Kyle as the “kid” with Jess and Simon, and loathes Guy but tries not to let that show. He and John I think would work the best together because they’re both leaders who tend to project calm in a crisis and wear a mask of stoicism to keep their inner turmoil hidden from those looking to them for leadership.

But the two Leaguers that I think Clark should absolutely be closer to are J’onn and Arthur. All three of them are outsiders. J’onn and Kal are both aliens, last sons of dead worlds, and I absolutely think it’s been a mistake on DC’s part not to explore their relationship more. Arthur, like Clark also has two names (Arthur and Orin), and I think the two of them should definitely bond over belonging to two worlds but not really perfectly fitting into either. Really would like to see all three in a story together that focuses on their commonalities and differences.

I'm surprised the New 52 didn't try and play up the whole "dead parents" angle with Clark and Barry. Then again, pretty much all the League at the time had dead or incapacitated parents...

I think with Barry there would a shared commitment to justice through their civilian identities and as Superheroes and they're both kind of hokey in their own way...along with dating reporters (which is also a Wally thing, come to think of it). Of the League I would think Supes and Flash are the most explicit "capes" compared to the rest of the team.

Hal is the kind of friend who would get Clark (and everybody) to loosen up a little and have fun.

Arthur never gets to hang out with anybody .

[Vordan]

I'm surprised the New 52 didn't try and play up the whole "dead parents" angle with Clark and Barry. Then again, pretty much all the League at the time had dead or incapacitated parents...

I think with Barry there would a shared commitment to justice through their civilian identities and as Superheroes and they're both kind of hokey in their own way...along with dating reporters (which is also a Wally thing, come to think of it). Of the League I would think Supes and Flash are the most explicit "capes" compared to the rest of the team.

Part of the reason might be that Morrison made sure that while Clark grieved his parents deaths, he wasn’t obsessed over it, and their deaths weren’t why he was a hero. In contrast both Bruce and Barry were traumatized by the death of their parents, with Barry also seeing his dad arrested for the crime which made him obsessed with proving his dad’s innocence which caused his mom’s death to define him as a hero the way Bruce’s motives were definite by the deaths of the Waynes. Barry and Bruce bonding over that makes sense, even if Barry eventually healed and moved on in a way Bruce has never been able to do.

Hal is the kind of friend who would get Clark (and everybody) to loosen up a little and have fun.

No doubt in part why he clashes with Bruce so much lol.

Arthur never gets to hang out with anybody .

It’s weird as hell how Arthur has no close friends on the League. They say J’onn is his counterpart but they’ve never put in the work to build that in my opinion. Definitely want that team up with J’onn and Clark at some point. But hey, least he’s still on the JL, poor J’onn keeps getting booted out.

[bat39]

Agreed!

If you ask me, I think Superman should be close friends with all the other six Justice League founders.

And you're right that Flash and GL would fit the tone of Superman's stories better.

I guess the 'problem' (if you consider it that) is that they aren't really a contrast to Superman and his world the way Batman is. Powers and backstory aside, Flash is actually a lot like Superman, the hero of Metropolis, while GL is a lot like Superman, the global and intergalactic hero.

But that apart, I think there's a lot you can do with these friendships. Barry and Clark are actually pretty alike, as civilians and as heroes. Superman and Flash are probably among the most 'popular' and well-liked heroes among the public, so there's that as well. I can see Barry and Clark hanging out if they visit each other's cities, and Superman and Flash doing a lot of charity races and appearing at fundraisers and events together. And with Clark and Wally, I think Wally probably looks up to Clark the most after Barry and Jay but is close enough to him to see him as a mentor and friend, rather than just as an icon, while Clark I think would actually have come to view Wally as an equal and would be proud of how much he's grown as a hero and a person. (Oh, and I think its a shame that the early Rebirth era didn't have Clark and Wally bonding more often over being two survivors from the pre-Flashpoint world).

When it comes to Clark and the GL's - I think you can get a good contrast with Clark and Hal, since Hal is typically a bit more of a hotshot. That said, while Hal can be a maverick, he's part of an organization, while Superman is his own man, so that's an interesting contrast to. Clark's relationship with John might be more interesting to explore since, as Vordan mentioned, they're a lot alike personality-wise.

[The World]

How is it that Post Crisis Superman is still whining about being from Krypton after 30 years? Why is he stuck struggling with the same character beat Violet Parr got through in a day in the Incredilbes? When is he going to grow the hell up?

[bat39]

How is it that Post Crisis Superman is still whining about being from Krypton after 30 years? Why is he stuck struggling with the same character beat Violet Parr got through in a day in the Incredilbes? When is he going to grow the hell up?

Being the sole survivor (well, one of the few survivors) of an entire planet and civilization isn't something you can just shrug off. Its a magnitude of loss that most of us can't really comprehend...I think the only people in real-life who maybe could are survivors of ethnic cleansing.

And I really don't think Superman broods about Krypton all that much. He maybe did a bit during the Silver Age and Bronze Age (back when they tried to emphasize the alien aspects of his identity), but he certainly hasn't much in more modern interpretations. At the same time, he does feel a sense of loss about Krypton, even if it is a bit abstract, and that's only natural.

For people like J'onn or Kara, their sense of loss is a lot more visceral, since they actually had lives on Mars and Krypton respectively.

I think Clark has more in Arthur in that he was raised as human with a human name, but knew he was different from an early age, and eventually learnt that he comes from a different world. There's a neat contrast there too in that Clark would like to have experienced more of Krypton but can't, while Arthur has to be King of Atlantis, a responsibility and role he's not always happy with. Its an angle they could explore more with these two.

[The World]

Being the sole survivor (well, one of the few survivors) of an entire planet and civilization isn't something you can just shrug off. Its a magnitude of loss that most of us can't really comprehend...I think the only people in real-life who maybe could are survivors of ethnic cleansing.

And I really don't think Superman broods about Krypton all that much. He maybe did a bit during the Silver Age and Bronze Age (back when they tried to emphasize the alien aspects of his identity), but he certainly hasn't much in more modern interpretations. At the same time, he does feel a sense of loss about Krypton, even if it is a bit abstract, and that's only natural.

For people like J'onn or Kara, their sense of loss is a lot more visceral, since they actually had lives on Mars and Krypton respectively.

I think Clark has more in Arthur in that he was raised as human with a human name, but knew he was different from an early age, and eventually learnt that he comes from a different world. There's a neat contrast there too in that Clark would like to have experienced more of Krypton but can't, while Arthur has to be King of Atlantis, a responsibility and role he's not always happy with. Its an angle they could explore more with these two.

I could at least understand feeling the loss of Krypton but he's complaining about not being human in that image and that people won't see him as a "regular" guy.

[manwhohaseverything]

Why?clark is better off finding friends in titans like dick and wally

[Frontier]

I think Clark has more in Arthur in that he was raised as human with a human name, but knew he was different from an early age, and eventually learnt that he comes from a different world. There's a neat contrast there too in that Clark would like to have experienced more of Krypton but can't, while Arthur has to be King of Atlantis, a responsibility and role he's not always happy with. Its an angle they could explore more with these two.

They also both married spitfires...

[Phantom Zone]

[/QUOTE]They say J’onn is his counterpart but they’ve never put in the work to build that in my opinion. Definitely want that team up with J’onn and Clark at some point. But hey, least he’s still on the JL, poor J’onn keeps getting booted out.[/QUOTE]

There was that Justice League Christmas episode "Comfort and Joy".

[Jim Kelly]

Clark, Hal and Barry not pals? Ridiculous.

[Robanker]

Lately the only friendship getting explored is one with Bruce-- for all heroes.

Remember GL/Flash? GL/GA? They never really get picked up anymore, but everyone's always referencing Bruce.

Superman exploring any friendships without Gotham is a good move in my mind.

[SuperCrab]

You know what would be cool?

The Flash having a friendship with Superman that is almost solely today's Flash hanging out with the Superman from like 500 years from now in a continuity where Superman doesn't age or barely ages (Maybe some gray around the temples).

Think about it. All of Superman's friends from this era are dead or gone by then, but there he is having barely aged. The Flash of today periodically winds up in that future for various reasons. Every time he does, he looks up Superman and they hang out (Fortunately he'll wind up going back to the future always like a month or a year or a decade after the last visit, so it'll be chronological for both characters) and eventually become best buds in 2531 AD or whenever kind of by default because he is literally the last hero standing who is contemporary to Superman's first century of life. Superman stays vague on what happened to the others, just that they are either "dead or... gone" to avoid accidentally changing history (and leave open storyline possibilities- you know, so and so may not be dead, but rather hanging out on the other side of the galaxy or whatever. It can be left ambiguous.). Still, he's delighted to see The Flash whenever he shows up because The Flash is now his oldest friend! The whole dynamic is totally different.

Then, The Flash has to return to 2021 AD where he and Superman aren't that close, and Superman is sort of one tier above, and they just do the Justice League and whatever else together, mostly just co-workers as superheroes. And, The Flash, being the Flash, constantly slips up with in-jokes and stuff that he shares with future Superman and then goes "Aw, crap. Spoilers. Sorry. Remember this, you'll find it hilarious in about 500 years or so when we're best friends..". The claim that they are best friends in the future can be something that good naturedly annoys Clark, but he can't actually refute it because he hasn't lived those years yet.

It seems like it could work with either Barry Allen (That's honestly who I'm picturing it with) or Wally West, but probably less so with Jay Garrick- Jay Garrick seems more like he'd be Superman's very serious friend from the Justice Society in an alternate continuity's 1940s or 1950s. Allen or West I picture getting a laugh out of Clark and loosening him up in a future that has by implication been kind of hard for him, sort of standing sentry for earth for all that time while everyone around him has died or moved on to something else (Sure, that time has it's own newer heroes and he works with them, but they're all a few centuries younger than he is and all either think of him as an idol who they grew up wanting to be, someone out of touch with contemporary (future) society, and/or as a father/grandfather/pioneer figure rather than as straight-forward equal and friend.). Flash keeps him optimistic and hopeful through humor and fun, a contemporary still alive thanks to time travel, and any sense that he's not an equal is something Clark has long since changed his mind about- in a way he's the only one who just sees Superman as Superman and who Superman can trade late 20th and early 21st century references with (Either to the era's popular culture or to the superhero heroes, villains, and adventures of that era).

I don't know if it'd work right *now* in the comics because of what they are doing with Clark seemingly aging a lot faster than this sort of recurring story point would age him, with Jon hanging around and whatever (Maybe Jon could be dead- he's half-human, he could age faster. Maybe that's why Superman is down 500 years from now. Jon died a century beforehand and that was his last connection to his early days as a hero, what would have been Clark's human lifespan. Sure, he's got descendants, but it's not the same.). However, the next time they reboot continuity, in an out of continuity series of comics, or in some alternate media like television or movies, it could be a thing.

I guess the other way to go that would work with current continuity a little better would be that The Flash from the main DC universe is best buds with the Superman from, I don't know, let's say Earth-52, and basically the same dynamic plays out as above where the main universe Superman and he don't have the same relationship as Flash has with this other Superman, but Flash occasionally gets them confused and then has to go "Sorry, inside joke with the other Superman" when teaming up with the main DC universe Superman.

[bat39]

You know what would be cool?

The Flash having a friendship with Superman that is almost solely today's Flash hanging out with the Superman from like 500 years from now in a continuity where Superman doesn't age or barely ages (Maybe some gray around the temples).

Think about it. All of Superman's friends from this era are dead or gone by then, but there he is having barely aged. The Flash of today periodically winds up in that future for various reasons. Every time he does, he looks up Superman and they hang out (Fortunately he'll wind up going back to the future always like a month or a year or a decade after the last visit, so it'll be chronological for both characters) and eventually become best buds in 2531 AD or whenever kind of by default because he is literally the last hero standing who is contemporary to Superman's first century of life. Superman stays vague on what happened to the others, just that they are either "dead or... gone" to avoid accidentally changing history (and leave open storyline possibilities- you know, so and so may not be dead, but rather hanging out on the other side of the galaxy or whatever. It can be left ambiguous.). Still, he's delighted to see The Flash whenever he shows up because The Flash is now his oldest friend! The whole dynamic is totally different.

Then, The Flash has to return to 2021 AD where he and Superman aren't that close, and Superman is sort of one tier above, and they just do the Justice League and whatever else together, mostly just co-workers as superheroes. And, The Flash, being the Flash, constantly slips up with in-jokes and stuff that he shares with future Superman and then goes "Aw, crap. Spoilers. Sorry. Remember this, you'll find it hilarious in about 500 years or so when we're best friends..". The claim that they are best friends in the future can be something that good naturedly annoys Clark, but he can't actually refute it because he hasn't lived those years yet.

It seems like it could work with either Barry Allen (That's honestly who I'm picturing it with) or Wally West, but probably less so with Jay Garrick- Jay Garrick seems more like he'd be Superman's very serious friend from the Justice Society in an alternate continuity's 1940s or 1950s. Allen or West I picture getting a laugh out of Clark and loosening him up in a future that has by implication been kind of hard for him, sort of standing sentry for earth for all that time while everyone around him has died or moved on to something else (Sure, that time has it's own newer heroes and he works with them, but they're all a few centuries younger than he is and all either think of him as an idol who they grew up wanting to be, someone out of touch with contemporary (future) society, and/or as a father/grandfather/pioneer figure rather than as straight-forward equal and friend.). Flash keeps him optimistic and hopeful through humor and fun, a contemporary still alive thanks to time travel, and any sense that he's not an equal is something Clark has long since changed his mind about- in a way he's the only one who just sees Superman as Superman and who Superman can trade late 20th and early 21st century references with (Either to the era's popular culture or to the superhero heroes, villains, and adventures of that era).

I don't know if it'd work right *now* in the comics because of what they are doing with Clark seemingly aging a lot faster than this sort of recurring story point would age him, with Jon hanging around and whatever (Maybe Jon could be dead- he's half-human, he could age faster. Maybe that's why Superman is down 500 years from now. Jon died a century beforehand and that was his last connection to his early days as a hero, what would have been Clark's human lifespan. Sure, he's got descendants, but it's not the same.). However, the next time they reboot continuity, in an out of continuity series of comics, or in some alternate media like television or movies, it could be a thing.

I guess the other way to go that would work with current continuity a little better would be that The Flash from the main DC universe is best buds with the Superman from, I don't know, let's say Earth-52, and basically the same dynamic plays out as above where the main universe Superman and he don't have the same relationship as Flash has with this other Superman, but Flash occasionally gets them confused and then has to go "Sorry, inside joke with the other Superman" when teaming up with the main DC universe Superman.

That's...an interesting idea!!

Given how much time-travel and parallel universes is a part of the Flash's life, its actually a bit surprising that we don't see him form relationships with alternate versions of other heroes.

Here's a fun fact - back in the Silver Age, the Flash met the JSA on Earth Two before the rest of the League did. Now we see him hang out with Jay quiet a bit, understandably, but did he also hang out with the rest of the Justice Society? Its a bit hard to imagine he wouldn't have given that he did grow up reading about the JSA in comics. But imagine Barry talking to Earth Two Diana, who's literally an older alternate version of one of his fellow Leaguers.

That said, the one problem I have with your post is the idea that Superman wouldn't regard the Flash as an equal. I think Superman would regard all the JL founders as equals (not that he would talk down to other heroes).