Superman's Friendships With Green Lantern & The Flash Should Be Played Up More

[SuperCrab]

That said, the one problem I have with your post is the idea that Superman wouldn't regard the Flash as an equal. I think Superman would regard all the JL founders as equals (not that he would talk down to other heroes).

It really depends on the continuity. In the Synderverse, it's very clear that The Flash is a novice relative to Superman and Batman, and considers Superman a bit beyond him.

In the Arrowverse, it could be the other way around (Superman has been around longer [By ret-con], but The Flash may be the more famous better skilled hero), though it's hard to say what the post TV Crisis on Infinite Earths relationship between them is retroactively, and they had really only just met each other relatively recently prior to Crisis IIRC, because they were in alternate universes pre-merger and Flash's main contact in Superman's universe was Supergirl, who has been often portrayed as surpassing Superman in that universe (Literally and figuratively) and being the primary defender as earth (Superman actually says this about Supergirl), whereas The Flash and Supergirl were definitely at least peers, and The Flash was probably been the top superhero with powers on his earth longer (I say with powers, because Arrow, who relies on tech and archery, came first- actually, the Arrowverse really is the Arrowverse in more than one way, because that is probably the only universe where he's the most important hero- existed prior, as did, retroactively, Batman, though we haven't seen Batman on screen, and some describe him as just being sort of an urban myth who we the viewers know is real because of Batwoman, but who may not have been written up in mainstream newspapers and such. Rachel Maddow's Gotham radio host character seems to describe him as a real person, but others outside the "bat-circle" don't.). Actually, with Supergirl wrapping up it's run soon and there being a Superman and Lois show, I suspect that we'll see less of this "Supergirl is better" and more of "Superman is the original legend and the most powerful" type of thing occur- networks always promote the stars of the shows they have on-air for obvious reasons.

Comics wise, I don't know what's going on at this second with Flash, but my feel is that while Clark might regard Barry as an equal in theory, Superman is always in these on-going Batman/Superman and Superman/Wonder Woman type on-goings and "trinity" comics, and Batman is his typically the most frequent non-Metropolis guest star in the main Superman books. In the Justice League, Superman or Batman has almost always been portrayed as the defacto leader in most continuities, even though they don't have a title or get saluted, just by the way every acts.

So, technically, sure Superman and Flash are equals. However, Superman seems to be the leader of the JL whenever Batman isn't, and The Flash, despite being a founding member of the JL in most continuities, is still outside that Clark/Bruce/Diana inner-circle. The writers never even let Flash beat Superman in those races they've had periodically, and footspeed is literally The Flash's thing. Like, it'd hurt Superman less to lose a close race, because, you know, he can fly, he's got the laser beams shooting out of his eye, x-ray vision, superflare (Does the current Superman have that? New52 Superman developed it towards the end), super-strength, invulnerability to most things that aren't Kryptonite, etc.. So, Superman could lose a footrace to Flash and people could still say he's better overall because of the other stuff and barely losing, but if Flash loses, it's like a catastrophe for his standing (Maybe I'm overselling that a bit).

Anyway, I think maybe my first post in this thread may have been poorly worded. I am just really I suppose trying to say that The Flash and Superman don't seem like as close of buddies or people who interact as much as Superman and Batman or Superman and Wonder Woman. They're friends, they're both founding Justice League members who work together a lot, and I think they both respect each other- I just don't get the sense that like Flash and Superman hang out regularly just to hang or whatever. You know, Barry was never going to be the best man at Clark's wedding. That sort of thing.

For the reasons stated in my prior post, I think present-day Flash could have a closer relationship with Superman from the distant future than with the present-day one, or with a Superman from an alternate universe than the present-day one. Maybe if they go the alternate universe route, all the other Justice League founders, and maybe Lois, could be dead (Killed by Darkseid, whatever) in that universe, creating the similar dynamic where Flash is the bright spot in Superman's day, his last friend left from better times- albeit not the exact version who was really there on that earth. You know, like Brandon Routh Superman in Arrowverse, who was sort of the last of his cast of characters standing (Or almost so, I don't remember the exact list of people he said were dead.). I guess sadly doing that would mean they couldn't (or maybe shouldn't) use the Earth-52 Superman (My favorite), because if they ever really revisit him in depth, I think part of how they would sell him as being a meaningful deviation from the current main Superman would be his relationship with Wonder Woman, which means keeping her new52 alternate alive. I think had the new52 Superman (A continuing version of whom was assigned Earth-52 by Doomsday Clock) would have eventually wound up with Lois had he remained the main DC universe's Superman, but since he didn't, it makes more sense to keep the relationship with WW intact as a selling point.

But they could use *a* Superman, for sure.

[bat39]

It really depends on the continuity. In the Synderverse, it's very clear that The Flash is a novice relative to Superman and Batman, and considers Superman a bit beyond him.

In the Arrowverse, it could be the other way around (Superman has been around longer [By ret-con], but The Flash may be the more famous better skilled hero), though it's hard to say what the post TV Crisis on Infinite Earths relationship between them is retroactively, and they had really only just met each other relatively recently prior to Crisis IIRC, because they were in alternate universes pre-merger and Flash's main contact in Superman's universe was Supergirl, who has been often portrayed as surpassing Superman in that universe (Literally and figuratively) and being the primary defender as earth (Superman actually says this about Supergirl), whereas The Flash and Supergirl were definitely at least peers, and The Flash was probably been the top superhero with powers on his earth longer (I say with powers, because Arrow, who relies on tech and archery, came first- actually, the Arrowverse really is the Arrowverse in more than one way, because that is probably the only universe where he's the most important hero- existed prior, as did, retroactively, Batman, though we haven't seen Batman on screen, and some describe him as just being sort of an urban myth who we the viewers know is real because of Batwoman, but who may not have been written up in mainstream newspapers and such. Rachel Maddow's Gotham radio host character seems to describe him as a real person, but others outside the "bat-circle" don't.). Actually, with Supergirl wrapping up it's run soon and there being a Superman and Lois show, I suspect that we'll see less of this "Supergirl is better" and more of "Superman is the original legend and the most powerful" type of thing occur- networks always promote the stars of the shows they have on-air for obvious reasons.

Comics wise, I don't know what's going on at this second with Flash, but my feel is that while Clark might regard Barry as an equal in theory, Superman is always in these on-going Batman/Superman and Superman/Wonder Woman type on-goings and "trinity" comics, and Batman is his typically the most frequent non-Metropolis guest star in the main Superman books. In the Justice League, Superman or Batman has almost always been portrayed as the defacto leader in most continuities, even though they don't have a title or get saluted, just by the way every acts.

So, technically, sure Superman and Flash are equals. However, Superman seems to be the leader of the JL whenever Batman isn't, and The Flash, despite being a founding member of the JL in most continuities, is still outside that Clark/Bruce/Diana inner-circle. The writers never even let Flash beat Superman in those races they've had periodically, and footspeed is literally The Flash's thing. Like, it'd hurt Superman less to lose a close race, because, you know, he can fly, he's got the laser beams shooting out of his eye, x-ray vision, superflare (Does the current Superman have that? New52 Superman developed it towards the end), super-strength, invulnerability to most things that aren't Kryptonite, etc.. So, Superman could lose a footrace to Flash and people could still say he's better overall because of the other stuff and barely losing, but if Flash loses, it's like a catastrophe for his standing (Maybe I'm overselling that a bit).

Anyway, I think maybe my first post in this thread may have been poorly worded. I am just really I suppose trying to say that The Flash and Superman don't seem like as close of buddies or people who interact as much as Superman and Batman or Superman and Wonder Woman. They're friends, they're both founding Justice League members who work together a lot, and I think they both respect each other- I just don't get the sense that like Flash and Superman hang out regularly just to hang or whatever. You know, Barry was never going to be the best man at Clark's wedding. That sort of thing.

For the reasons stated in my prior post, I think present-day Flash could have a closer relationship with Superman from the distant future than with the present-day one, or with a Superman from an alternate universe than the present-day one. Maybe if they go the alternate universe route, all the other Justice League founders, and maybe Lois, could be dead (Killed by Darkseid, whatever) in that universe, creating the similar dynamic where Flash is the bright spot in Superman's day, his last friend left from better times- albeit not the exact version who was really there on that earth. You know, like Brandon Routh Superman in Arrowverse, who was sort of the last of his cast of characters standing (Or almost so, I don't remember the exact list of people he said were dead.). I guess sadly doing that would mean they couldn't (or maybe shouldn't) use the Earth-52 Superman (My favorite), because if they ever really revisit him in depth, I think part of how they would sell him as being a meaningful deviation from the current main Superman would be his relationship with Wonder Woman, which means keeping her new52 alternate alive. I think had the new52 Superman (A continuing version of whom was assigned Earth-52 by Doomsday Clock) would have eventually wound up with Lois had he remained the main DC universe's Superman, but since he didn't, it makes more sense to keep the relationship with WW intact as a selling point.

But they could use *a* Superman, for sure.

Yeah, I get what you mean.

Clark is definitely a lot closer to Bruce and Diana than he is to Barry. But my point was that as Justice League founders, they would 'professionally' be equals. Well, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman would be first among equals, but the likes of Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter wouldn't be too far behind.

I agree it depends on the continuity. The DCEU for instance is pretty skewed in this regard - Barry is a novice just starting out as a hero, while Bruce and Diana have been at it for decades (several decades in Diana's case), and Clark was Superman for a couple of years already and kick-started the current era of metahumans and superheroes. There's a fairly substantial age gap as well. And then in the DCAU, Wally West's Flash definitely comes across as a kid compared to the likes of Batman and Superman (this is a 'verse where Batman, by the time the JL is founded, has been around at least 13 years...probably more, and Superman has been around a few years as well)...he even complains in one episode that he doesn't get the respect from the others that he deserves as a founding member.

But by and large, if we go by the mainstream comic-book continuity (whichever iteration of it), I'd say within the Justice League Barry is regarded by the other founders at least as an equal. Superman or Batman may seem like the de facto leaders, but if you actually go back to Silver Age continuity, it was often Flash who held the chairmanship of the League (and I don't see why that can't be canon again). Also, I don't know how this works with the current Rebirth timeline, but I think Barry has been around as Flash almost as long as Clark has been around as Superman...give a take a couple of years perhaps.

[Falcon16]

It's funny because my co-writer writes The Flash and Green Lantern as friends. In my headcanon, Cyborg, The Flash, and Green Lantern are the group of friends, because Flash, having autism, is too shy to speak to Superman. Cyborg and Flash's friendship was taken from the DCEU, but it's also because Flash is a computer programmer in this universe, and Cyborg's good with technology. Superman's friendships I haven't figured out yet. He'll be friendly with Captain Marvel, I guess, since Captain Marvel looks up to Supes.