Zack Snyder and the Snyderverse

[JAK]

Oh,no doubt. They were expecting, at minimum, 1 billion,but probably they wanted something closer to 1.5 billion. Although BATGOD numbers weren't a thing until TDK and TDKR. Let's not forget that Batman Begins made about 20 million LESS than Superman Returns worldwide. What earned it a sequel was the lower production costs comparatively and the fact Begins was a home video smash hit. The good will and the buzz along with the curiosity born from Heath Ledger's tragic death led to TDK doing godly numbers,building buzz up to TDKR. When adjusted for inflation, Batman 89 made 870 million in today's numbers.

Very true - though, given WB's public stancing at the time, I wonder if they even remembered that, lol.

Oh I totally agree. They have never understood the appeal of the characters and they have a lousy track record of finding people who do. Plus, since Nolan basically revived Batman after the disastrous last two movies by going dark, gritty, and “realistic”, I totally get the logic of trying the same for Superman. But Snyder is nowhere near as intelligent a storyteller as Nolan (and Nolan has plenty of plot holes himself), and also simply doesn’t understand or like the source material he’s adapting which is why he failed.

Yep. WB even made several public announcements about "taking their other properties in a darker vein due to the success of Batman." It's why I was so skeptical of MoS initially, then was won over by the "light to show the way" trailers, and then... well, you all know by now, I've made no secret of it. Snyder is a fairly talented cinematographer, by the looks of things; he just shouldn't be the guy that gets listened to on anything associated with the words "character" or "plot ideas". lol

[Powerboy]

Snyder may not have been "entitled" to his JL movie,but Snyder didn't deserve to have the film taken from him in the way they did it. They used his daughter's Suicide and his need to step away as an excuse to hijack the film rather than do the right and honest thing and put the film's production on hold for a few months and then perhaps have that conversation with Snyder later.Members of the cast didn't deserve to be abused and jerked around by a raging ego maniac in Whedon and those cast members didn't deserve to be ignored by WB brass who just put up with it,turned a blind eye, and hoped it just all worked out so they could all collect their end year bonuses.

If they wanted Snyder gone after BvS underperformed critically and at the box office,they should have immediately halted production on JL,delayed the movie and let him go before they got too deep into shooting the film. That's when you hire a new person, have that person rewrite the script, rework the bones of it and then start filming. You don't let the guy film the entire damn movie, then decide you don't want that movie,then use a tragedy to get your hands on it and do it under the radar. You fire the guy at the start before you film and deal with the consequences. Yeah,Snyder may have sued them for breach of contract for letting him go given he was contracted to do it,but that would have been far better for everyone and probably ultimately at the end of it all cost them much less money and bad press than the **** show that resulted from what they did.

They wanted their cake and eat it too. The WB executives wanted the movie out on time so they could collect their fat bonuses for that year,they wanted to make JL into a marvel copy and paste job by the guy who made Avengers and still get away with calling it Snyder's movie without publicly firing him and having to deal with Snyder possibly going after them with legal action and probably some settlement. It was all a **** show of cowardice and greed converging for the perfect storm.

Also,lets not kid ourselves here. This direction for the DCEU isn't because big bad mean old Zack Snyder hijacked these characters against WB's wishes and made these darker,more somber, grayscale deconstruction oriented movies against their wishes. This is the kind of thing they wanted for Superman and the DC staple of characters at least as far back as 2008 and maybe even as far back as the late 90s. The Nolan Batman films were seen as the Rosetta stone to glory and the executives convinced themselves that they could,As JAK said above,shove these characters into a Bat shaped hole and watch the money pour in. Then suddenly during the second weekend of BvS it seemed they decided the exact opposite and thus the aforementioned **** show of greed,cowardice and incompetence. Snyder was hired by Warners to make his version of the DCEU because that's what they thought they wanted...until they didn't.

Oh they definitely wanted the feeling of DKR because it sold so they wanted it across the board with no understanding that because it works for one character doesn't mean it will work for all characters.

It's just the reverse of what they did back in the days of the 1989 Batman movie when they wanted it to be campy and funny because that had worked for Superman. Luckily, Tim Burton came along and convinced them to go in a different direction.

Yeah, they wanted the DCEU to have the dark feeling of DKR not for any artistic reasons but for the sounds of an old style cash register. Then, when it was not universally loved by almost everybody, they never wanted that to begin with. Yeah, somehow, a director snuck around and gave them a completely different movie from what they wanted and they never noticed. At least Snyder had a vision and stuck to it. They could still have deviated into a lighter style with other movies without brining in a pompous egomaniac to alienate the cast and make the movie a disaster.

[manofsteel1979]

Oh they definitely wanted the feeling of DKR because it sold so they wanted it across the board with no understanding that because it works for one character doesn't mean it will work for all characters.

It's just the reverse of what they did back in the days of the 1989 Batman movie when they wanted it to be campy and funny because that had worked for Superman. Luckily, Tim Burton came along and convinced them to go in a different direction.

Yeah, they wanted the DCEU to have the dark feeling of DKR not for any artistic reasons but for the sounds of an old style cash register. Then, when it was not universally loved by almost everybody, they never wanted that to begin with. Yeah, somehow, a director snuck around and gave them a completely different movie from what they wanted and they never noticed. At least Snyder had a vision and stuck to it. They could still have deviated into a lighter style with other movies without brining in a pompous egomaniac to alienate the cast and make the movie a disaster.

Heck ,I'd say there was a good bit of levity in the Snyder cut of Justice League compared to both MOS and BvS. The humor that Whedon added in his cut was mostly try too hard rejects from his Avengers scripts. Only thing missing was canned laughter and a neon sign flashing on screen to tell us to "Please laugh".

[CosmiComic]

Heck ,I'd say there was a good bit of levity in the Snyder cut of Justice League compared to both MOS and BvS. The humor that Whedon added in his cut was mostly try too hard rejects from his Avengers scripts. Only thing missing was canned laughter and a neon sign flashing on screen to tell us to "Please laugh".

I was surprised how much of the comedy was Snyder's

[Powerboy]

I was surprised how much of the comedy was Snyder's

That was the biggest surprise since everybody assumed Snyder didn't know how to do quips and one-liners. Everybody was sure that "I bought the bank" joke and the Flash's "How rude" was Whedon.

[CosmiComic]

That was the biggest surprise since everybody assumed Snyder didn't know how to do quips and one-liners. Everybody was sure that "I bought the bank" joke and the Flash's "How rude" was Whedon.

Not all of it landed for me, but I recognize he at least tried to be less grim than BvS.

[manwhohaseverything]

That was the biggest surprise since everybody assumed Snyder didn't know how to do quips and one-liners. Everybody was sure that "I bought the bank" joke and the Flash's "How rude" was Whedon.

There was humor like that in man of steel..I don't particularly care for the humor now.It's boring...

[DABellWrites]

I don’t like where Snyder was going with the films but ultimately the problem isn’t him or what he creates, it’s the toxic chunk of his fan-base who spam other movie reviews with release the Snyderverse and the like.

People can like his art and call it a masterpiece all they want, there’s plenty of movies I like that I’m sure most people would despise, it’s just a problem when you bring it into other peoples movies.

And there is a decent size of his fan base that’s like that but it’s really not big enough to be concerning, just annoying.

https://youtu.be/rycCGHB6Dso

This video sums up the Snyder Quote. I don't know what the incarnation of death crying has to do with anything, but someone will figure it out.

[DABellWrites]

While the execs at the time definitely made the wrong decision, that entire relationship fell apart where both sides kept butting heads. Snyder wanted full control, expected to get no pushback, and didnt understand he's working with very active IPs that are bigger than him. He was given the Snydercut and then still went against the new
regimes wishes. They dont want to work with him and he doesnt want to work with them. Netflix has a shiny new toy to throw money at unearned again and WB has shiny new toys to throw money at.

Snyder wants to finish his trilogy. Hence why he stated he doesn't understand why WB doesn't want to work with him anymore.

[DABellWrites]

Earth-2 Batman, yes.

[Lokimaru]

Not all of it landed for me, but I recognize he at least tried to be less grim than BvS.

Superman was basically alone in his movie whi did he have to quip with like Diana and Arthur? Notice how the quipinv started when Diana Bruce and Him got together ri fight Doomsday. Superman is not like Tony or Peter he's no tg a quip machine but he does good Deadpan like the "You'll learn" line to Lex.

People call his fans toxic but to me they are just Campaigning. Are politicians Toxic when they bombard you with Unsolicited mail asking for your vote? When they show up in ad after ad attacking their opponents and gaslighting the American public? We tolerate that but people Campaigning or something they want is too much?

Have they really trained us to only want what they'll allow us to have and to see anything they don't sanction as undesirable? Damn that I say.

[DochaDocha]

Are politicians Toxic

Easiest question I've ever answered on this forum. Yes. I don't live in TX, never lived in TX, and have had this same central Illinois phone number for 17 years, but I keep getting texted political messages for TX candidates and referenda. That *$%@ really should be against the law.

I do like an occasionally quippy Superman. If you keep busting criminals who have 0% chances of getting away from you and yet they still try that nonsense, you'd probably joke around just to deal with the frustration and monotony.

[Agent Z]

Friendly reminder of how far people have taken their hatred of Snyder.



Nothing the man has done has ever been half as bad as the worst of his fans or the worst of his haters.

[Quinlan58]

Zack's a cool guy. I dislike his movies ever since I saw 300 back in 2006, I dislike his DC movies and definitely dislike what I've heard of his further plans, but he looks like a cool guy to sit down, ahve a few drinks with, talk movies and music and art and comics.

And I want to punch the people who use his family's suffering against him, so damn much. That's disgusting.

[JAK]

Friendly reminder of how far people have taken their hatred of Snyder.



Nothing the man has done has ever been half as bad as the worst of his fans or the worst of his haters.

Yikes. Yeah, that's pretty disgusting. One can hate the work, but shouldn't hate the man.