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  1. #196
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea but Castle didnt like it so he Pulls a Trump and says Many people are saying, I've heard. In an attempt to justify his own unpopular opinion. This has been going on for years under multiple screen names. Unfortunately when you block someone you still have to see everything they say quoted in other people's post. But you would think someone with such unpopular opinions would at some point learn the difference between subjective and objective truths.

    My opinions on Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron. Endgame's humor take of Thor, Thor Ragnarok's humor are not unpopular. If I remember correctly Whedon himself confessed some major problems with Ultron and for Iron Man 3 there was an apology issued from Marvel itself about how the humor used for the Mandarin.

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/ho...ing-to-shane-/


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Seeing as the general public quite enjoyed the humour in those movies, it clearly shows humour is subjective
    I was been artistically objective about the humour criticism about the joke of the Avengers in the trailer and why it did not land well, that has nothing to do with general audiences.

    I think the joke could have been cut out or be put before the end credit trailer, maybe it would have merged well or flowed better since I even missed it on my first rewatch or maybe what they could have done is not put the interference line, only to end with making Avengers joke when Avengers is the perfect definition of interfering, this is why Avengers are the biggest crossover team.

    If they have never interfered or don't really like interfering, why do they now want to lead the Avengers (even if it was a joke)? It just does not flow well, Marvel has had some good trailers, but this is not their best both in dialogues or visuals. The Shang CHI trailer was better or at least appeared stronger.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-09-2021 at 02:59 PM.

  2. #197
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Of the over 100 million people who saw Iron Man 3, how many were comic fans who also didn't like that take on the Mandarin?
    I saw some of it here, but it was in no way the majority of comic book fans.
    So what, a few thousand?
    There will be comic fans upset with a movie version of anything they do.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #198
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    My opinions on Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron. Endgame's humor take of Thor, Thor Ragnarok's humor are not unpopular.
    Hmm. I even agree with your opinion on Ragnarok, but it is so much in the minority as to not even register. Please don't suggest that movies that make millions or billions and include themes and ideas that you personally would not want are in any way representative of themes and ideas that are unpopular.

    Your opinion on movies does not represent the majority view. And rightly so.

  4. #199
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Not really. Not even in MCU movies. Humor is not all subjective...
    I used to want to be a professional cartoonist (still would, but you know how life gets in the way of things) and did get to briefly write some strips in college for publication (student newspaper). So when I tell you that you are dead wrong and humor is factually subjective, I actually know what I'm talking about. (It's bad arguments like this that make people not take you seriously).

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...this is the reason Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron and even Thor Ragnarok and Endgame, we have seen a significant amount of fans talk about how the humor hinders or hurt those films.
    You are not a "significant amount of fans." (Also, I do remember that Ragnarok was considered the best of the the Thor movies, with its humor being cited as a key reason why that was. Course, all the Thor movies were on that spectrum from day one, so...)

    To be frank, I thought Iron Man 3 was okay (and the sense of humor wasn't too far what Iron Man usually brings to the table). Age of Ultron's biggest problems where in plot and pacing. Ragnarok was good all the way through (comedy is Chris Hemsoworth's strong suit and, as noted before, it just took what the other movies had seeded and brought them to its logical conclusion). Pretty much everyone I've heard hating on Endgame r.e. the comic relief where in the demographic that were already against it and that style of filmmaking in the first place, so it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy that it wouldn't be for them. Frankly, the humor was A-okay in it (the filmmakers knew when to have laughs and when to let the drama take center stage).

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Also the origins or purpose of the humor is what usually causes cringing among people. Many people don't take kindly when humor is used to dumb down a story or a moment.
    Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Humor is good, I think even dark or dramatic movies should still some have humor but only when it is used well or in the right place.
    And that is where we get back to the (highly) subjective nature of humor. Case in point, you've gone on record that you think the Marvel movies are bad because of their humor. Conversely, I have seen essays to the effect that at least certain installments were extremely well-written as far as the jokes went.
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  5. #200
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    My opinions on Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron. Endgame's humor take of Thor, Thor Ragnarok's humor are not unpopular. If I remember correctly Whedon himself confessed some major problems with Ultron and for Iron Man 3 there was an apology issued from Marvel itself about how the humor used for the Mandarin.

    https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/ho...ing-to-shane-/




    I was been artistically objective about the humour criticism about the joke of the Avengers in the trailer and why it did not land well, that has nothing to do with general audiences.

    I think the joke could have been cut out or be put before the end credit trailer, maybe it would have merged well or flowed better since I even missed it on my first rewatch or maybe what they could have done is not put the interference line, only to end with making Avengers joke when Avengers is the perfect definition of interfering, this is why Avengers are the biggest crossover team.

    If they have never interfered or don't really like interfering, why do they now want to lead the Avengers (even if it was a joke)? It just does not flow well, Marvel has had some good trailers, but this is not their best both in dialogues or visuals. The Shang CHI trailer was better or at least appeared stronger.
    Iron Man 3 was well received outside of comic book fans who had their feelings hurt over the Mandarin twist. I don’t recall any other humour in it being criticised. Ragnarok and Ultron were not criticised for humour (Ragnarok being overwhelmingly praised for it in fact). And Endgame Thor was also disliked by a minority.

    Even in the context you’re talking about the Eternals joke landing is subjective, because a lot of people (like yourself) who don’t like the cinematic universe are pre disposed to dislike it, whereas others (like myself) may have found it endearing. Not to mention the biggest criticism of the trailer so far has been that people find it boring and they don’t see why Eternals haven’t interfered

  6. #201
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Iron Man 3 was well received outside of comic book fans who had their feelings hurt over the Mandarin twist. I don’t recall any other humour in it being criticised. Ragnarok and Ultron were not criticised for humour (Ragnarok being overwhelmingly praised for it in fact). And Endgame Thor was also disliked by a minority.

    Even in the context you’re talking about the Eternals joke landing is subjective, because a lot of people (like yourself) who don’t like the cinematic universe are pre disposed to dislike it, whereas others (like myself) may have found it endearing. Not to mention the biggest criticism of the trailer so far has been that people find it boring and they don’t see why Eternals haven’t interfered
    I think I have already explained why the interference line was the biggest criticism with 3 very logical sound point even going back as far as saying, how is the threat level of them not to interfere...Was it Loki in the first avengers film? this was now ignored and turned into a different debate of movies are pop corn majority pleasing arguments with surface level ''well received'' film arguments. Reminds me of the Sharknado's days or the current Fast and Furious series.

    I will just tie up Weblucker, green garnish and kirby101 reply to me because I will just be repeating my self, but there seem to be to much of a Twilight or Mandela effect here. I am looking at the Eternals trailers in the same way as the Captain Marvel, Endgame, Joker and Logan trailers. those were trailers that were dissected artistically this is the same thing that is happening with the Eternals, How that can now become what a majority or minority pop corn easy pleasing crowds like is displaced has nothing to do with film criticism of even trailers.

    Eternals should be higher than the twilight effects arguments since I feel like a person who read Anne Rice's vampire novels trying to explain the issue with vampire that sparkles when it comes to why humor is constantly brought up negatively with most of these comic book films.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-10-2021 at 02:12 AM.

  7. #202
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I think I have already explained why the interference line was the biggest criticism with 3 very logical sound point even going back as far as saying, how is the threat level of them not to interfere...Was it .Loki in the first film? this was now ignored and turned into a different debate of movies are pop corn majority pleasing arguments.

    I will just tie up Weblucker, green garnish and kirby101 reply to me because I will just be repeating my self, but there seem to be to much of a Twilight or Mandela effect here. I am looking at the Eternals trailers in the same way as the Captain Marvel, Endgame, Joker and Logan trailers. those were trailers that were dissected artistically this is the same thing that is happening with the Eternals, How that can now become what a majority or minority pop corn easy pleasing crowds like is displaced has nothing to do with film criticism of even trailers.

    Eternals should be higher than the twilight effects arguments since I feel like a person who read Anne Rice's vampire novels trying to explain the issue with vampire that sparkles when it comes to why humour is constantly brought up negatively with most of these comic book films.
    I’m finding it hard to understand what your point is here but I wasn’t disputing the validity of the interference criticism (although clearly the point of the movie is to show why they’re choosing now to interfere, so I don’t understand people’s complaints surrounding the teaser trailer setting up a mysterious plot point).

    Again I don’t know what you’re trying to say here?? Everyone is judging the trailer based on their own metrics. A couple of people you are responding to didn’t even like the trailer so I don’t know why you feel the need to push this “objective” argument when you’re clearly being subjective.

    The difference is that the sparkling vampire wasn’t written to be humourous lol - that’s why it became something to laugh at. A joke not landing is forgettable and happens in a lot of movies, but it very rarely gains pop culture infamy or notoriety. Sparkling Vampires have more in common with the “Save Martha” line in BvS than any jokes (good or bad) in any superhero film.

  8. #203
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea but Castle didnt like it so he Pulls a Trump and says Many people are saying, I've heard. In an attempt to justify his own unpopular opinion. This has been going on for years under multiple screen names. Unfortunately when you block someone you still have to see everything they say quoted in other people's post. But you would think someone with such unpopular opinions would at some point learn the difference between subjective and objective truths.
    There a small core of people who insist on engaging who are part of the problem, so you'd have to block them too. Film/TV is borderline unusable for all the crap going on in anything even tangentially related to the MCU.

  9. #204
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I’m finding it hard to understand what your point is here but I wasn’t disputing the validity of the interference criticism (although clearly the point of the movie is to show why they’re choosing now to interfere, so I don’t understand people’s complaints surrounding the teaser trailer setting up a mysterious plot point).

    Again I don’t know what you’re trying to say here?? Everyone is judging the trailer based on their own metrics. A couple of people you are responding to didn’t even like the trailer so I don’t know why you feel the need to push this “objective” argument when you’re clearly being subjective.

    The difference is that the sparkling vampire wasn’t written to be humourous lol - that’s why it became something to laugh at. A joke not landing is forgettable and happens in a lot of movies, but it very rarely gains pop culture infamy or notoriety. Sparkling Vampires have more in common with the “Save Martha” line in BvS than any jokes (good or bad) in any superhero film.
    LOL what you just said is the best example when objective criticism goes out the window and bias is not the art of the deal.

    objectively everyone of the series has had this issue with humor or what becomes a joke moment intended or not. which is what I am talking about, the Iron Man 3 humor punked moment that the mandarin was a comedian actor is worse than the martha scene, but this is not the thread to dicuss that . however you defended iron man 3 because it is a mcu fillm.

    I can also use other example like the toad getting struck by lightening joke from xmen 1, where the joke does not land and was totally cringey and people called it out even after 21 years because people can be objective and don't care if it is marvel or DC, and this is where I stand.

    Sparkling vampires complaints have more in common with constant overuse of humor in superhero films because vampires were never intended to sparkle , the same as comic films were never intended to have humor take over the movie or themes or have film crossovers or feel they need to name drop other series in their own films to the point that the IP cannot stand on their two feet anymore, which is why I used this narrative. Eternals did not have to find a way to tell us that they know who the Avengers are. this is why the humor is bad because the joke is trying too hard to tie Avengers to Eternals at what feels as if would be at the expense of their own story but I guess we will find out in November when we see the film. however the pattern is factually there. See Spiderman tie in to Iron Man in the films.

    I would not be surprised, if a major plot of this movie is how the Eternals can learn from how cool or heroic the Avengers have been and they the Eternals now want to become just like the Avengers.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-10-2021 at 04:39 AM.

  10. #205
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    LOL what you just said is the best example when objective criticism goes out the window and bias is not the art of the deal.

    objectively everyone of the series has had this issue with humor or what becomes a joke moment intended or not. which is what I am talking about, the Iron Man 3 humor punked moment that the mandarin was a comedian actor is worse than the martha scene, but this is not the thread to dicuss that . however you defended iron man 3 because it is a mcu fillm.

    I can also use other example like the toad getting struck by lightening joke from xmen 1, where the joke does not land and was totally cringey and people called it out even after 21 years because people can be objective and don't care if it is marvel or DC, and this is where I stand.

    I get you are a big MCU fan and always see every comic films from that POV, but when you are talking to other people like myself it's a different ground. Sparkling vampires complaints have more in common with constant overuse of humor in superhero films because vampires were never intended to sparkle , the same as comic films were never intended to have humor take over the movie or themes or have film crossovers or feel they need to name drop other series in their own films to the point that the IP cannot stand on their two feet anymore, which is why I used this narrative. Eternals did not have to tell us that they know who the Avengers are.
    Uh no, I defended IM3 because it’s a decent movie that isn’t objectively bad (neither is the Mandarin twist) lol.

    You’re right about the toad scene, however I think it’s more comparable to the Martha scene, seeing as both scene’s dialogue were intending to be smart/witty moments (Save Martha was intending to be emotionally resonant but failed) I’d argue the Eternals joke in the teaser accomplishes it’s goal of endearing the characters (in a trailer) more than BvS did with the Save Martha stuff.

    I’m a fairly standard MCU fan tbh, but I understand that, to you, that means that I watch/like nothing else. You hold a very shallow opinion of what people that disagree with you are like. But, again, sparkling vampire was supposed to be taken seriously - MCU movies humour is supposed to be taken humourously, which it largely succeeds at. Also, it’s funny that you imply comic book movies can only be made to be completely stone faced serious. Very objective.

  11. #206
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Uh no, I defended IM3 because it’s a decent movie that isn’t objectively bad (neither is the Mandarin twist) lol.

    You’re right about the toad scene, however I think it’s more comparable to the Martha scene, seeing as both scene’s dialogue were intending to be smart/witty moments (Save Martha was intending to be emotionally resonant but failed) I’d argue the Eternals joke in the teaser accomplishes it’s goal of endearing the characters (in a trailer) more than BvS did with the Save Martha stuff.
    it's bias you think I am right about the Toad scene but not right about the Mandarin scene when that is worse in story because the trailers and synopsises for Iron Man 3 so far has established that the Mandarin was supposed to be a big threat of James Bond meets Mission Impossible CIA level also backed up by the fact that although Iron Man does not have a strong rogues gallery in the comics, the mandarin was among his better villains, so the movie making him into a joke was a bad idea that derailed the entire movie and even destroyed the tone of the film completely.

    To say that that is not bad but the toad joke or martha scene that were just one off and did not even harm the overall reception or tone of those films as the mandarin did with Iron Man 3 is 100% bias.

    You can cut the toad line joke in xmen 1 and it wont hurt that film or change anything about that film. you can still make some sense of the martha scene and just say the execution was poor but we get what Snyder was trying to, have them bond because both can say they have a human mother who was in danger, there was nothing to save, understand or take away from the Mandarin twist.


    I’m a fairly standard MCU fan tbh, but I understand that, to you, that means that I watch/like nothing else. You hold a very shallow opinion
    of what people that disagree with you are like. But, again, sparkling vampire was supposed to be taken seriously - MCU movies humour is supposed to be taken humourously, which it largely succeeds at. Also, it’s funny that you imply comic book movies can only be made to be completely stone faced serious. Very objective.
    I don't feel this is been standard. a lot of fans agreed with marvel itself that they were wrong with the mandarin twist, when marvel built it up as something else and accepted or understood marvel's apology that they got it wrong, it makes no sense that can still be defended, when marvel cannot even defend it themselves and have said, sorry to fans of the joke that did not land in Iron Man 3 but instead cost a big backlash.

    https://www.cinemablend.com/new/How-...sh-131427.html
    How Marvel Reacted To Iron Man 3 Villain Backlash


    Lastly my opinions are not shallow, this is the reason I look beyond the narrative that comic films are just about humor, action, colourful costumes or generic cinematography. The vampire genre is like the comic genre , it evolved and every fiction had to be looked at on that same level of where a genre has been or already been. this is why humor has become very problematic not just in MCU but also DCU but I think some fans now calling out too much humor even with this Eternals trailer is a good thing because maybe marvel will listen and tone the humor down.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-10-2021 at 06:25 AM.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    it's bias you think I am right about the Toad scene but not right about the Mandarin scene when that is worse in story because the trailers and synopsises for Iron Man 3 so far has established that the Mandarin was supposed to be a big threat of James Bond meets Mission Impossible CIA level also backed up by the fact that although Iron Man does not have a strong rogues gallery in the comics, the mandarin was among his better villains, so the movie making him into a joke was a bad idea that derailed the entire movie and even destroyed the tone of the film completely.

    To say that that is not bad but the toad joke or martha scene that were just one off and did not even harm the overall reception or tone of those films as the mandarin did with Iron Man 3 is 100% bias.

    You can cut the toad line joke in xmen 1 and it wont hurt that film or change anything about that film. you can still make some sense of the martha scene and just say the execution was poor but we get what Snyder was trying to, have them bond because both can say they have a human mother who was in danger, there was nothing to save, understand or take away from the Mandarin twist.



    I don't feel this is been standard. a lot of fans agreed with marvel itself that they were wrong with the mandarin twist, when marvel built it up as something else and accepted or understood marvel's apology that they got it wrong, it makes no sense that can still be defended, when marvel cannot even defend it themselves and have said, sorry to fans of the joke that did not land in Iron Man 3 but instead cost a big backlash.

    https://www.cinemablend.com/new/How-...sh-131427.html
    How Marvel Reacted To Iron Man 3 Villain Backlash


    Lastly my opinions are not shallow, this is the reason I look beyond the narrative that comic films are just about humor, action, colourful costumes or generic cinematography. The vampire genre is like the comic genre , it evolved and every fiction had to be looked at on that same level of where a genre has been or already been. this is why humor has become very problematic not just in MCU but also DCU but I think some fans now calling out too much humor even with this Eternals trailer is a good thing because maybe marvel will listen and tone the humor down.
    So you don't think what happened in Iron Man 3 was a big threat? Killing a lot of people and getting his man to become President of the USA looks like a very big threat to me. The only thing that changed during the movie was who was really behind this.

    And regarding why the Eternals did not interfere before I would sugest something really new. We wait until we get more information before making stuff up.

  13. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    There a small core of people who insist on engaging who are part of the problem, so you'd have to block them too. Film/TV is borderline unusable for all the crap going on in anything even tangentially related to the MCU.
    I mean it's really not that hard to see Castle's name in the tweet and skim past the whole post. If I didn't enjoy seeing people trying to get through to him that's what I would do.

    The truth is that social media sites like this get more engagement from people getting mad so they make it as hard as possible to avoid things that you don't want to see.

  14. #209
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I think I have already explained why the interference line was the biggest criticism with 3 very logical sound point even going back as far as saying, how is the threat level of them not to interfere...Was it Loki in the first avengers film?
    Since we don't know crap about the plot, it's kinda silly to be arguing that they should've interfered before this movie, since we don't know what the new threat is at all. For that matter, we don't know if any of the Eternals secretly lent a hand before in an unofficial capacity anyways (like the Endgame retcon that the Ancient One was fighting Loki's invasion during the first Avengers movie). Point is, we don't have enough info to say anything on this point (and the point of the line is to establish that the Eternals are facing a game-changing situation, not how the movie fits into the rest of the series).

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    this was now ignored and turned into a different debate of movies are pop corn majority pleasing arguments with surface level ''well received'' film arguments. Reminds me of the Sharknado's days or the current Fast and Furious series.
    Well, there's a reason that we're getting 10 Fast movies and 20+ MCU movies. It's the same reason that Zack Snyder's Syderverse ended before he got to make all his movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I will just tie up Weblucker, green garnish and kirby101 reply to me because I will just be repeating my self, but there seem to be to much of a Twilight or Mandela effect here. I am looking at the Eternals trailers in the same way as the Captain Marvel, Endgame, Joker and Logan trailers. those were trailers that were dissected artistically this is the same thing that is happening with the Eternals, How that can now become what a majority or minority pop corn easy pleasing crowds like is displaced has nothing to do with film criticism of even trailers.
    First off, it's "WebLurker (c'mon, you can't spell, there's cut and paste). Secondly, what the frak does the trailer have to do with whether the final film is good or bad? I will concede it's not the most interesting trailer ever made, but it does do the job giving a sketch of what these characters are and what their deal is. Heck, it's a teaser trailer, so it's not going to show us everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Eternals should be higher than the twilight effects arguments since I feel like a person who read Anne Rice's vampire novels trying to explain the issue with vampire that sparkles when it comes to why humor is constantly brought up negatively with most of these comic book films.
    What does Twilight have to do with anything? (Besides, I've never read or seen that, although I've heard enough about to think that it's very much not for me and that Leah Clearwater deserved better). Can we stay on topic?
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    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #210
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    I mean it's really not that hard to see Castle's name in the tweet and skim past the whole post. If I didn't enjoy seeing people trying to get through to him that's what I would do.

    The truth is that social media sites like this get more engagement from people getting mad so they make it as hard as possible to avoid things that you don't want to see.
    It really isn't that easy when almost every post in MCU Threads turns into people arguing with the same guy for Pages on end. It's never healthy debate, when he's debating in bad faith. And I'm not judging the people doing it, I was guilty of it alot before.

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