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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Default Which villain(s) could headline an event?

    What Spider-Man villains could headline an event? Here an event would be something big enough to take up six issues of a main book, and have some spinoff minis?

    In the past, this has been done with Morlun (Spider-Verse), Kraven (Hunted), Harry Osborn (Last Remains), the Jackal (Spider Island, Clone Conspiracy) and Carnage (Absolute Carnage)

    So which villains can be the big bad in a story where Spider-Man's going to require a lot of help? And how would it go?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #2
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Doctor Octopus with Ends of the Earth might be included, as that had a one-shot spinoff focusing on the actions of superheroes outside the United States in reaction to the worldwide threat posed by Ock's latest plot. Norman Osborn was the villain of Dark Reign, which was more of a status quo than an event, but he was still the central villainous power player in the MU that all the superheroes were focused on taking down.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #3
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    The Spot. A crossover with the X-men. The event would be called "X marks the Spot". Hijinks ensue.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    My own thoughts are the Lizard and the Spider Slayers.

    There could easily be a story where the Lizard mutates other people, and causes some kind of widespread damage to New York. Exiles showed a world in which the reptiles had taken over.

    In the 1990s, there was a TPB-length story The Invasion of the Spider Slayers, which wasn't that great, but did show that the Spider Slayers fit the requirement for this kind of story. There are a lot of them, and they can cause chaos in different places. The main problem is that the Smythes aren't that compelling, although the events of Clone Conspiracy could have led to some interesting trauma. They have appeared a few times in outside media, as key characters in the 90s cartoon and various video games.
    Sincerely,
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  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Other than the Big Three (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom)and Carnage? Hobgoblin, probably.

    Chameleon, too, depending on how they handled it.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    dont forget about rent and finding a job
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My own thoughts are the Lizard and the Spider Slayers.

    There could easily be a story where the Lizard mutates other people, and causes some kind of widespread damage to New York. Exiles showed a world in which the reptiles had taken over.
    Are we talking about now or in the past because if he does it now, it would be a huge detriment too his character.

    Most mastermind type characters would work like this by necessity since they can't get up and personal with Spidey. Mysterio would be one.

  8. #8
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  9. #9
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    Kingpin. He orchestrates a gang war to weaken all the others before taking back the reigns of the NY underworld.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    What Spider-Man villains could headline an event? Here an event would be something big enough to take up six issues of a main book, and have some spinoff minis?

    In the past, this has been done with Morlun (Spider-Verse), Kraven (Hunted), Harry Osborn (Last Remains), the Jackal (Spider Island, Clone Conspiracy) and Carnage (Absolute Carnage)

    So which villains can be the big bad in a story where Spider-Man's going to require a lot of help? And how would it go?
    I don't think this post is framed properly or correctly. Lot of weird assumptions and dubious examples. One at a time.

    -- I am not sure the examples you cite qualify as events. Do we mean events as in Marvel-wide events or event storylines that happen in Spider-Man? For instance Spider-Verse with Morlun isn't a Marvel-Universe event, likewise HUNTED, LAST REMAINS. These are all event storylines centered on Spider-Man and Spider-Family characters and do not qualify as Marvel Universe events. I would say that as far as Spider-Family stories go, virtually any bad-guy can be an event villain, provided they find the right gimmick to go with it. I'll say more about this in a bit.

    -- As for the general Marvel Universe, when we think of events, by which I mean stuff like Secret Wars, Infinity Gauntlet and so on, only Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Carnage so far has managed to made that jump to becoming Marvel-wide villains among Spider-Man rogues. Carnage for Maximum Carnage and Absolute Carnage. Norman Osborn back when he was Thunderbolts/HAMMER 'top cop' and so on. Osborn was the main villain of SIEGE, and Carnage of course is self-explanatory. The one problem is that when these villains become Marvel-wide villains, it doesn't lead to an elevation of Spider-Man as a Marvel-wide hero who specifically gets to be the one who takes down his rogue. So mostly it's not satisfying, and on the whole the Spider-Family events are more satisfying uses of these character than anything else.

    On the whole I think centering the question on the villain is misleading, because a lot of Marvel's big events don't really feature or center around a villain or a big villain. Take CIVIL WAR and HOUSE OF M, both are event storylines, line-wide Marvel stories but neither feature a main villain in the conventional sense or center around a major villain. Civil War is about Avengers beating each other up, House of M is about Scarlet Witch losing powers and while I think you can argue that Magneto is the villain, the fact is that it's Wanda who created and incited the events so she's the antagonist in that story. The recent events like EMPYRE don't have a major villain, nor do X OF SWORDS.

    If you take a Spider-Family event like Spider-Island...Spider-Island is fundamentally not about Jackal or a story about how big a villain Jackal is. It's basically a gimmicky story about everyone in New York City getting superpowers and exploring that premise for its comedy and action. The concept of a virus giving everyone in the city powers could have been done with any villain using chemicals with mutagens. Likewise Spider-Verse is the weakest showing for Morlun ever and the movie ditched the entire villains in the story and went its own way and not a thing of value was lost.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 05-24-2021 at 06:03 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't think this post is framed properly or correctly. Lot of weird assumptions and dubious examples. One at a time.

    -- I am not sure the examples you cite qualify as events. Do we mean events as in Marvel-wide events or event storylines that happen in Spider-Man? For instance Spider-Verse with Morlun isn't a Marvel-Universe event, likewise HUNTED, LAST REMAINS. These are all event storylines centered on Spider-Man and Spider-Family characters and do not qualify as Marvel Universe events. I would say that as far as Spider-Family stories go, virtually any bad-guy can be an event villain, provided they find the right gimmick to go with it. I'll say more about this in a bit.

    -- As for the general Marvel Universe, when we think of events, by which I mean stuff like Secret Wars, Infinity Gauntlet and so on, only Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Carnage so far has managed to made that jump to becoming Marvel-wide villains among Spider-Man rogues. Carnage for Maximum Carnage and Absolute Carnage. Norman Osborn back when he was Thunderbolts/HAMMER 'top cop' and so on. Osborn was the main villain of SIEGE, and Carnage of course is self-explanatory. The one problem is that when these villains become Marvel-wide villains, it doesn't lead to an elevation of Spider-Man as a Marvel-wide hero who specifically gets to be the one who takes down his rogue. So mostly it's not satisfying, and on the whole the Spider-Family events are more satisfying uses of these character than anything else.

    On the whole I think centering the question on the villain is misleading, because a lot of Marvel's big events don't really feature or center around a villain or a big villain. Take CIVIL WAR and HOUSE OF M, both are event storylines, line-wide Marvel stories but neither feature a main villain in the conventional sense or center around a major villain. Civil War is about Avengers beating each other up, House of M is about Scarlet Witch losing powers and while I think you can argue that Magneto is the villain, the fact is that it's Wanda who created and incited the events so she's the antagonist in that story. The recent events like EMPYRE don't have a major villain, nor do X OF SWORDS.

    If you take a Spider-Family event like Spider-Island...Spider-Island is fundamentally not about Jackal or a story about how big a villain Jackal is. It's basically a gimmicky story about everyone in New York City getting superpowers and exploring that premise for its comedy and action. The concept of a virus giving everyone in the city powers could have been done with any villain using chemicals with mutagens. Likewise Spider-Verse is the weakest showing for Morlun ever and the movie ditched the entire villains in the story and went its own way and not a thing of value was lost.
    Spider-Queen was the main villain of Spider-Island. Jackal just helped her.

    He was the main villain of the cartoon version of Spider-Island.

    The Cotati were totally the main villains of Empyre, and those helping to facilitate the conflict.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Spider-Queen was the main villain of Spider-Island. Jackal just helped her.
    Right. But even the story wasn't really about her.

    The Cotati were totally the main villains of Empyre, and those helping to facilitate the conflict.
    But the Cotati are a plot device to unite the Kree/Skrull as a single threat and it's mostly not a story centered around a villain, leave alone a major villain.

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't think this post is framed properly or correctly. Lot of weird assumptions and dubious examples. One at a time.

    -- I am not sure the examples you cite qualify as events. Do we mean events as in Marvel-wide events or event storylines that happen in Spider-Man? For instance Spider-Verse with Morlun isn't a Marvel-Universe event, likewise HUNTED, LAST REMAINS. These are all event storylines centered on Spider-Man and Spider-Family characters and do not qualify as Marvel Universe events. I would say that as far as Spider-Family stories go, virtually any bad-guy can be an event villain, provided they find the right gimmick to go with it. I'll say more about this in a bit.

    -- As for the general Marvel Universe, when we think of events, by which I mean stuff like Secret Wars, Infinity Gauntlet and so on, only Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Carnage so far has managed to made that jump to becoming Marvel-wide villains among Spider-Man rogues. Carnage for Maximum Carnage and Absolute Carnage. Norman Osborn back when he was Thunderbolts/HAMMER 'top cop' and so on. Osborn was the main villain of SIEGE, and Carnage of course is self-explanatory. The one problem is that when these villains become Marvel-wide villains, it doesn't lead to an elevation of Spider-Man as a Marvel-wide hero who specifically gets to be the one who takes down his rogue. So mostly it's not satisfying, and on the whole the Spider-Family events are more satisfying uses of these character than anything else.

    On the whole I think centering the question on the villain is misleading, because a lot of Marvel's big events don't really feature or center around a villain or a big villain. Take CIVIL WAR and HOUSE OF M, both are event storylines, line-wide Marvel stories but neither feature a main villain in the conventional sense or center around a major villain. Civil War is about Avengers beating each other up, House of M is about Scarlet Witch losing powers and while I think you can argue that Magneto is the villain, the fact is that it's Wanda who created and incited the events so she's the antagonist in that story. The recent events like EMPYRE don't have a major villain, nor do X OF SWORDS.

    If you take a Spider-Family event like Spider-Island...Spider-Island is fundamentally not about Jackal or a story about how big a villain Jackal is. It's basically a gimmicky story about everyone in New York City getting superpowers and exploring that premise for its comedy and action. The concept of a virus giving everyone in the city powers could have been done with any villain using chemicals with mutagens. Likewise Spider-Verse is the weakest showing for Morlun ever and the movie ditched the entire villains in the story and went its own way and not a thing of value was lost.
    In this case, an event is a book in which a lot of stuff happens outside the pages of the main storyline. It doesn't fit in one TPB.

    Hunted and Last Remains both had quite a few bonus issues. Spider-Verse had the five issues of Edge of Spider-Verse, multiple issues of Spider-Man 2099 plus Spider-Woman, and assorted spinoff mini-series.

    It's certainly possible to do event books without conventional villains, though that's a different question.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Are we talking about now or in the past because if he does it now, it would be a huge detriment too his character.

    Most mastermind type characters would work like this by necessity since they can't get up and personal with Spidey. Mysterio would be one.
    Mysterio could be interesting, especially if he's been setting things up for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Other than the Big Three (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom)and Carnage? Hobgoblin, probably.

    Chameleon, too, depending on how they handled it.
    My instinct is that Chameleon would try to operate behind the scenes, complicating someone else's plot. Though he could also manipulating other characters into fighting one another.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 05-24-2021 at 07:38 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Other than the Big Three (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom)and Carnage? Hobgoblin, probably.

    Chameleon, too, depending on how they handled it.
    Always thought Jason Macendale/Jack O'Lantern had potential...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Mysterio could be interesting, especially if he's been setting things up for a while.
    To the utmost, I agree. My favorite event involving Mysterio would be...

    Guardian Devil


  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Right. But even the story wasn't really about her.

    But the Cotati are a plot device to unite the Kree/Skrull as a single threat and it's mostly not a story centered around a villain, leave alone a major villain.
    I mean, you can be the main villain and still service the plot.

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