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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Green Goblin being a mix of Batman and Joker is a good point. If you look at the way Goblin operates, hidden bases across New York City with all kinds of gadgets (one of which, when discovered accidentally, led to the rise of the Hobgoblin) that's quite a lot like Batman with his multiple hideouts. Then Norman also uses razorbats and other bombs and pellets from his utility belt.

    That's one reason why Mark Millar's MK:Spider-Man is great because that Norman does comes across as an evil Bruce Wayne. And the usual joke about Batman being a rich guy who goes out at night to beat the poor is probably the true motivation for Norman's turn to supervillainy, an excuse for a rich oligarch to personally oppress the unfortunate.
    LOL! I didn't know Norman had a utility belt?! I only know about the one "Man-Purse" he carries, though.

    Last edited by K7P5V; 06-18-2021 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I'd hardly call it "poor" since Osborn Head of Hammer led to better stories in Marvel than POTUS Lex provided in DC. When Luthor became POTUS it was fairly inconsequential in terms of a big status-quo and hardly seemed to affect or disturb or change stuff across titles. It also didn't provide or produce any significant stories with Luthor in that form. It was a stunt that got headlines but didn't actually go anywhere and then it ended in some Superman satellite title rather than some big event.

    Whereas Osborn Head of Hammer was much better executed and much more consequential where Osborn got in everyone's face, and made everyone in the Marvel Universe, in Bendis' verse, "feel like Peter Parker". This isn't to say it was perfect or anything but hey it got us Matt Fraction's "World's Most Wanted" and Kelly Sue DeConnick's "Osborn" so that validates that period.

    And you know at the end of the day, Norman Osborn is a better character than Lex Luthor anyway
    True. They never really had Luthor make it hard on the superhero community. I think the best he did was lord it over Superman in that he was pretty much untouchable and, if I remember correctly (I haven't reread those issues since they came out) Clark and Lois were going to try and pull a Woodward and Bernstein on him. But, yes, that was a missed opportunity.

    As for Norman? I mean, I welcome the guy getting any elevation. But them trying to rework him into a Avengers villain never sat right with me. He started out wanting to be the head of the underworld, but then he became fixated on Spider-man/Peter. The only other hero/villain rivalries that are as bitter and personal as those two are is Thrawn/Barry, Joker/Batman (although that was a revisionist movement started in the 80s) and Black Manta/Arthur.

    If they had to have someone occupy the role Norman did in that era, they could have just as easily used Gyrich. That guy has always hated superhumans. Plus he was a government stooge to begin with. It is what it is though and Norman is back where he belongs.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    [center]LOL! I didn't know Norman had a utility belt?! I only know about the one "Man-Purse" he carries...
    You know I wonder why Christos Gage's line of dialogue hasn't been mocked for its homophobic insinuation the way people (rightly) take issue with Peter's taunts to Bonesaw in Raimi' SM-1? Someday, the man purse could come into fashion and that would make Spider-Man's comments come across as very cheap indeed. I mean I've met some men who basically go shopping with man-purse stuff and find its utility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    True. They never really had Luthor make it hard on the superhero community. I think the best he did was lord it over Superman in that he was pretty much untouchable and, if I remember correctly (I haven't reread those issues since they came out) Clark and Lois were going to try and pull a Woodward and Bernstein on him. But, yes, that was a missed opportunity.
    Yeah. The JLU cartoons got more mileage out of Luthor's presidential campaign then the comics did with his whole presidency. I am in a minority for feeling that Luthor isn't very interesting as a businessman or corporate head. Because the nature of the character, his personal hatred of Superman doesn't really sit right with the impersonality of a corporate desk or the resolute desk for that matter. Someone whose classic incarnation is dedicated to absurd contraptions to kill a guy just isn't gonna convince me that he'll have time for fiscal year analysis and stock reports. Going back to the Justice League cartoons, they started with him as a businessman but then had him exposed as a criminal and make him the Silver Age mad scientist again, and it's like the character comes alive after being in slumber.

    Whereas Norman has always had that level of compartmentalization, since he could balance his double life -- being Norman and Green Goblin -- at the start of his career, so that shows a level of control and calculation that I don't really buy in Luthor.

  4. #64
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You know I wonder why Christos Gage's line of dialogue hasn't been mocked for its homophobic insinuation the way people (rightly) take issue with Peter's taunts to Bonesaw in Raimi' SM-1? Someday, the man purse could come into fashion and that would make Spider-Man's comments come across as very cheap indeed. I mean I've met some men who basically go shopping with man-purse stuff and find its utility.



    Yeah. The JLU cartoons got more mileage out of Luthor's presidential campaign then the comics did with his whole presidency. I am in a minority for feeling that Luthor isn't very interesting as a businessman or corporate head. Because the nature of the character, his personal hatred of Superman doesn't really sit right with the impersonality of a corporate desk or the resolute desk for that matter. Someone whose classic incarnation is dedicated to absurd contraptions to kill a guy just isn't gonna convince me that he'll have time for fiscal year analysis and stock reports. Going back to the Justice League cartoons, they started with him as a businessman but then had him exposed as a criminal and make him the Silver Age mad scientist again, and it's like the character comes alive after being in slumber.

    Whereas Norman has always had that level of compartmentalization, since he could balance his double life -- being Norman and Green Goblin -- at the start of his career, so that shows a level of control and calculation that I don't really buy in Luthor.
    Fair point there, especially after having re-watched the JLU episodes with Project Cadmus as the overarching villain, even if they were ultimately pawns of Lex Luthor, who, in his own words, "spent $75 million on a fake presidential campaign just to tick Superman off." I also liked his line about the U.S. presidency versus being head of his own powerful multibillion-dollar corporation: "President? Do you have any idea how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair point there, especially after having re-watched the JLU episodes with Project Cadmus as the overarching villain, even if they were ultimately pawns of Lex Luthor, who, in his own words, "spent $75 million on a fake presidential campaign just to tick Superman off." I also liked his line about the U.S. presidency versus being head of his own powerful multibillion-dollar corporation: "President? Do you have any idea how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"
    That line of dialogue is something I've been thinking a lot about mostly because it reflects a lot of dated assumptions about politics.

    -- On one hand it's basically true and reflective of Luthor's time as POTUS in the Post-Crisis comics, where Luthor as President didn't really have a lot to do because being President is mostly a lot of meetings, briefings, readings, and doing trade deals and short of US being in a state of war (which DC didn't explore for too long) the President's powers in peacetime tend to be limited. Luthor was also presented in the comics an independent so that meant he didn't have a party to enact legislation and laws.

    -- On the other hand, now that we experienced an actual supervillain in Presidential office, we can appreciate the damage a truly malign person could do in the Oval Office and mostly it involves making stuff harder for minorities and so on, and Luthor being a comic supervillain can never cross the line into real-world evil otherwise marketing him becomes a case of making action figures for the KKK.

    Ultimately, the story was Luthor in the Presidential Campaign nearly and almost winning...DC writers/editors didn't know how to imagine a supervillain presidency. Whereas Marvel with Osborn as Head of Hammer could imagine a bad guy as "Evil Nick Fury" since you have examples like J. Edgar Hoover, as well as stuff like the Patriot Act, or McCarthy or HUAC and so on.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That line of dialogue is something I've been thinking a lot about mostly because it reflects a lot of dated assumptions about politics.

    -- On one hand it's basically true and reflective of Luthor's time as POTUS in the Post-Crisis comics, where Luthor as President didn't really have a lot to do because being President is mostly a lot of meetings, briefings, readings, and doing trade deals and short of US being in a state of war (which DC didn't explore for too long) the President's powers in peacetime tend to be limited. Luthor was also presented in the comics an independent so that meant he didn't have a party to enact legislation and laws.

    -- On the other hand, now that we experienced an actual supervillain in Presidential office, we can appreciate the damage a truly malign person could do in the Oval Office and mostly it involves making stuff harder for minorities and so on, and Luthor being a comic supervillain can never cross the line into real-world evil otherwise marketing him becomes a case of making action figures for the KKK.

    Ultimately, the story was Luthor in the Presidential Campaign nearly and almost winning...DC writers/editors didn't know how to imagine a supervillain presidency. Whereas Marvel with Osborn as Head of Hammer could imagine a bad guy as "Evil Nick Fury" since you have examples like J. Edgar Hoover, as well as stuff like the Patriot Act, or McCarthy or HUAC and so on.
    Very good points there, come to think of it, but the one comparing marketing Lex Luthor to making KKK action figures is somewhat funny in light of "Superman Smashes the Klan."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Spider-Chan's Avatar
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    You know what villain I don't think has had a iconic event? Electro.

    Like, he is one of the most iconic villians of Spuder-Man, but I cannot think of one actual truly memorable storyline of his. Maybe a event where he finally makes that jump.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Chan View Post
    You know what villain I don't think has had a iconic event? Electro.

    Like, he is one of the most iconic villians of Spuder-Man, but I cannot think of one actual truly memorable storyline of his. Maybe a event where he finally makes that jump.
    A lot of the issue with Electro is that he should be a Magneto-class threat, given that his power connects him to one of the four fundamental forces of the universe, but his comparative lack of intelligence, or even common sense, leaves him thinking and acting mostly like another petty super-crook. Granted, there was a smarter, savvier A/U version of him that led a bunch of other A/U Electros back in the Multiverse-exploring Web Warriors series that launched following Secret Wars by Jonathan Hickman, making their own "Electro-Verse," so maybe . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #69
    Spectacular Member Nero's Avatar
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    Alistair Smythe could be a potential candidate, he could be the one that cause an invasion of spider slayers to wreak havoc across New York which would involve Spider-Man and various other heroes at the forefront.

    Silvermane could also be another villain with the potential to headline an event. Isn't he supposed to be the head of the Maggia? If not, it wouldn't be too far fetched of a concept if he reached that level considering he's been affiliated with the Maggia for what seems like forever. Silvermane can cut deals with other Maggia members like Madame Masque and Hammerhead to assist him in becoming the next head of the New York underworld and I can totally see this becoming a cross over event between the Spider-Man and Daredevil books.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    Alistair Smythe could be a potential candidate, he could be the one that cause an invasion of spider slayers to wreak havoc across New York which would involve Spider-Man and various other heroes at the forefront.
    Alistair has done just that. Twice. You had Invasion Of The Spider-slayers that was a winter storyline in Amazing between 92 & 93 (It even got it's own Game Boy game) and Revenge Of The Spider-slayers by Slott.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Chan View Post
    You know what villain I don't think has had a iconic event? Electro.

    Like, he is one of the most iconic villians of Spuder-Man, but I cannot think of one actual truly memorable storyline of his. Maybe a event where he finally makes that jump.
    I think the biggest storyline Electro has ever had was Light The Night by DeMatteis whereby he attempted to drain all the electricity powering New York to prove he was somebody. Guy ended up draining so much he lost control of his powers and, if it hadn't been for Peter, he would have died.

    Something similar to that could be done again I suppose. But this time with him in control of his powers.

  12. #72
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    Hobgoblin
    Silvermane
    Hammerhead
    Spidercide

  13. #73
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Hobgoblin
    Silvermane
    Hammerhead
    Spidercide
    Bringing back Spidercide would be a bold move, especially given he seems to be the most hated/disliked of Peter Parker's clones. Still, if we get that "Spidercide 2.0" Chris Yost hinted at in his Scarlet Spider/Superior Spider-Man Team-Up arc . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Bringing back Spidercide would be a bold move, especially given he seems to be the most hated/disliked of Peter Parker's clones. Still, if we get that "Spidercide 2.0" Chris Yost hinted at in his Scarlet Spider/Superior Spider-Man Team-Up arc . . .
    We also don't know the real reason Spidercide was created either. The Jackal had a specific reason for doing so in mind. One that, apparently, Scrier knew and whispered in Spidercide's ear.

    In saying that, having him pop up would inevitably raise the chance of Jackal appearing. And where Jackal goes, clones aren too far behind.

  15. #75
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    We also don't know the real reason Spidercide was created either. The Jackal had a specific reason for doing so in mind. One that, apparently, Scrier knew and whispered in Spidercide's ear.

    In saying that, having him pop up would inevitably raise the chance of Jackal appearing. And where Jackal goes, clones aren too far behind.
    Speaking of dangling plotlines from 90s Spider-Man comics, how about bringing back the Great Game, basically an underground superpowered fight club with wealthy observers betting on and sponsoring the participants?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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