X-Men #20 Review *spoilers*

[superjosh]

I loved the issue, but also have a hard time with some of the plot contrivances.

Firstly, it is absolutely ridiculous that Forge can now create black hole bombs. That's the kind of thing where once you put that out there, it's hard to take back. He should literally now be making them over and over again and they should be constantly dropping them on Orchis until they get it right.

Second, Mystique waiting around to deploy it is a problem. They should have had her note that she miscalculated or something and was too curious about what they were up to and waited too long.

But overall, I love that they planted the seed looooooong ago of Mystique being an issue for the future of Krakoa and now it's maturing. She was part of the original Orchis mission in HoX and this slow burn of a plot detail is going to explode now!

[Havok83]

It's also been said that she often wrote in languages she herself didn't understand.

[Basilisk]

That is the problem with trying to interpret and affect future events. The X-men attacked the Orchis satellite three times in the hope of destroying Nimrod and each time they accelerated the process and actually brought about its creation. They are responsible for their own downfall.

How is it that Moira was able to acquire all of Destiny's journals. I would have thought most of those would be in the possession of Raven. If Moira has the journals and they actually talk about events this far into the future then shouldn't Moira already know what will happen and what Raven will ultimately do?

Moira, Charles and Magneto better figure out a new plan rather quickly because there current one is spiraling and with Nimrod now online and Mystique no longer playing ball they are going to be in serious trouble.

[JB]

Second, Mystique waiting around to deploy it is a problem. They should have had her note that she miscalculated or something and was too curious about what they were up to and waited too long.

That's why I'm suspect. Charles specifically told her that Nimrod can't be allowed to come online. She watched him come online.

I know, right? Diammandis on here said maybe one of the languages was Krakoan. That would be dope.

How is it that Moira was able to acquire all of Destiny's journals. I would have thought most of those would be in the possession of Raven. If Moira has the journals and they actually talk about events this far into the future then shouldn't Moira already know what will happen and what Raven will ultimately do?

This. I think Moira knows the instructions Irene gave to Raven.

[carmoc1234]

That's why I'm suspect. Charles specifically told her that Nimrod can't be allowed to come online. She watched him come online.



I know, right? Diammandis on here said maybe one of the languages was Krakoan. That would be dope.



This. I think Moira knows the instructions Irene gave to Raven.

so would destiny not have seen that moira would eventually get her journals and know what raven would do

[Rang10]

I loved the issue, but also have a hard time with some of the plot contrivances.

Firstly, it is absolutely ridiculous that Forge can now create black hole bombs. That's the kind of thing where once you put that out there, it's hard to take back. He should literally now be making them over and over again and they should be constantly dropping them on Orchis until they get it right.

Second, Mystique waiting around to deploy it is a problem. They should have had her note that she miscalculated or something and was too curious about what they were up to and waited too long.

But overall, I love that they planted the seed looooooong ago of Mystique being an issue for the future of Krakoa and now it's maturing. She was part of the original Orchis mission in HoX and this slow burn of a plot detail is going to explode now!

It ha some huge contrivances.

But i wonder if magneto and Xavier already knew that Mystique was oing to fail so they could deny Destiny being ressurrected

[warlockofgreed]

Will Mystique being teaming up with Orchis to take down Krakoa? I say this because she and Dr Gregor have something in common, they both want to bring back the love's of their life but are being denied.

Also, Mystique was known in the future as the biggest traitor to mutantkind, maybe this is how it happens.

Bring on the Inferno!

[JB]

so would destiny not have seen that moira would eventually get her journals and know what raven would do

Very possible indeed. The diaries have just changed everything I thought I knew. I'm shook.

[Lucyinthesky]

But does the general populace know of them and what they do? What happens if they find out and go "how come they get to kill humans but we can't?" versus the section of the populace that goes "Why are you breaking the laws?"

It´s more like How come they get to defend the country while we can´t? It´s the difference between the army(X-force) and the civilians(Krakoa´s population).

The first mission was known but no one knows about the second and third missions Raven secretly performed solo with the possible exception of Forge in the third mission we just read.

The X-men know about the first mission and there´s nothing different to the second and third mission Raven did solo, when they were send there, they didn´t hold back in attacking their opponets, in fact Mystiques mission should have been a team mission as well. I don´t see why she alone had to go where they have a lot other mutants or themselves able to go and stop Nimrod´s getting online.

You forget Legion and his connection to Ruth plus what he may let slip out to Kurt in Way of X, and when pray tell will that moment of revelation come? Perhaps when Irene (and hopefully also Ruth) stands before them and tells them why she was denied resurrection?

They already decided to tell the X-men the truth about Moira and everything, maybe they should just go ahead and do it, this would be better at this point. They didn´t expect Legion to come back by himself (or him being in love of Blindfold) and still Magneto tried to invite him to the Omega group so they may keep the precognitive ban a secret but it´s not something that they are thinking is going to be a long term thing.

There was never any trust to begin with, Mystique already knew through Irene that Krakoa would come, that they would offer her back to Raven if she served them and knows that they will never bring her wife back, Magneto and Xavier have been playing Rusian Roulette with a six chambered gun and five are loaded with Raven and now Raven has had enough...it's time to pay the piper. Raven when driven with the promise of Irene can has achieved the impossible and these two idiots have no clue what they have unleashed.

Yes and I don´t see the need at all given other mutants or Magneto himself could have done what Raven was asked to do, this is why I think there are plot holes in the story, them just using and making Raven angry for something a lot others mutants could do in her place is strange to me.

As for a team? They could send a team of the worst mutantkind have to offer to destroy that Station but won't do it because they are idiots playing with the lives of so many, and when Krakoa burns and it will no question about that outcome, they will only have themselves to blame. Not the humans, not the Sentinels, not aliens or vampires or Avengers...just them.

They already send their best in the first mission, there´s nothing wrong in trying to stop Nimrod or a city made of them imo but I agree with you they are making choices that could be self destructive for no real reason and I don´t get why unless something else happened that we didn´t see?

[PANDEMONIUM]

Imo it felt like at least Moira absolutely knew what would happen, based on the ending. Like, C&E think they’re running the show and keeping secrets, but Moira X is the true puppeteer, even if her intentions are good. So, it’s fun that there’s layers of betrayal.

I like betrayal. I’ll stab a bitch in a heartbeat, TUH.

[Rev9]

Because we know it from House of X / Powers of X and the dozens of mentions to past events since then. and I am not going to return to that discussion of more than a year ago

A lot of past events does not make them unique to life 10 only, they could have happened in other lives too, but with minute discrepancies unique and distinguishable from the rest or what happens in previous comic stories happens in one life but not the other.That is what makes this Hickman reincarnation set up a multiverse in a way without negating the validity of previous stories.

[Dante Milton]

So here's where I'm at, Destiny has never really been selfish with her precognition. She was never really concerned with using it to keep her self alive so much as trying to benefit all mutants and the people she cares about, by whatever means necessary. If she's telling Raven to attempt a revolt, I think it's because she saw that it will ultimately benefit mutants and probably Krakoa. I think Moira, Xavier, and Magneto know this and were setting Raven up to bring about this attempt, because whatever it is Raven starts in Inferno will be necessary to create a better future for mutants and Krakoa.

And then there's the teaser with an image of a baby. So far the only times a baby has been overtly mentioned in Hickman's books it was by the Gregors, saying how much they wanted one. So what if the Five make one for Alia? If she had a baby that was genetically the product of herself and her husband, but it was mutant, would she want it? Would it cause her to abandon Orchis?

[Soulsword323]

I'm happy to see the return of Destiny's Diaries. I always thought that was a cool concept, and it was great seeing them there at the end with Moira.

[Rang10]

So here's where I'm at, Destiny has never really been selfish with her precognition. She was never really concerned with using it to keep her self alive so much as trying to benefit all mutants and the people she cares about, by whatever means necessary. If she's telling Raven to attempt a revolt, I think it's because she saw that it will ultimately benefit mutants and probably Krakoa. I think Moira, Xavier, and Magneto know this and were setting Raven up to bring about this attempt, because whatever it is Raven starts in Inferno will be necessary to create a better future for mutants and Krakoa.

And then there's the teaser with an image of a baby. So far the only times a baby has been overtly mentioned in Hickman's books it was by the Gregors, saying how much they wanted one. So what if the Five make one for Alia? If she had a baby that was genetically the product of herself and her husband, but it was mutant, would she want it? Would it cause her to abandon Orchis?

On sinister gossip there is a mention ofthat Maddie had another baby that she hide from anyone

[hairys]

The only reason i could see Irene leaving any information for them to find about Raven and her actions is to somehow prompt them to take actions themselves that lead to either her resurrection or the destruction of Krakoa.

That's a good point. I also doubt Irene would quote her own diary word-for-word when talking to Raven in issue 6. So I'm now of the mind that Hickman didn't mean to imply with the last page that Moira was reading about Destiny and Raven's intentions. Could be wrong.