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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    Who exactly is scorch?, i'd love to read the story this comes from, thankyou.
    Oh the wiki has a full appearance list. She's a bit obscure, and is one of the characters that got erased from history in New 52. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Aubrey_Sparks_(New_Earth)

  2. #17
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I find complaints like this to be absurd and not based on anything factual.

    It's true that Superman's legend has grown to a point where it threatens to choke the character; people have come to look at Superman as some kind of space jesus, and if he doesn't make them feel like they saw the face of god, the story is a failure.

    But that's something the character has never tried to be. Clark has never set himself up As some kind of messiah, that's role forced upon him by us, Clark has only ever tried to do what he can to help. His wanting to be a example to others is no different than one of us being kind to our neighbors for the same reason; be the change you wanna see in the world and all that. Clark is just capable of working on a bigger scale than us.

    These complaints mostly seem to come from a place of ignorance, and it's not all that hard to find some very deep, very compelling flaws and quirks in Clark's personality. Likewise, he struggles in basically every conflict he's in, just like every other hero. His threats are just as dangerous to him as Daredevil's are to Matt Murdock; it's not like Clark is only fighting purse snatchers here.
    This. Most the people who try to tear Clark down in the fashion posted by the OP are generally looking to shit on him the same way "Batman is a rich white dude who punches the poor and mentally ill for being poor and mentally ill" is used to cudgel Bruce despite his published work generally trending to the contrary.

    Clark fights intergalactic conquerers who can savagely beat him. He fights threats that are up to his level. Yes, he fights people beneath him, but do we really think muggers are up to Bruce's level when he takes on Mr. Freeze?

    But they still get lucky and hurt Bruce now and then because that's the story. We challenge our heroes in smaller stakes to reign them back in. It's part of the curating a long IP where the hero must always trend toward victory and yet never actually win.


    As for the Captain America thing, that's just because Cap was in successful movies that aren't ashamed of him. The general audience bases their takes on these characters primarily on the strength of their feature films and most the people who have helmed Superman films tend to look at him with a very cynical eye, so of course he's not going to come across inspirational unless you're that one guy who credited Snyder's Supes as uplifting him all of Snyder's fans repost to prove that Snyder's Superman was totally an inspiration. When we get a Superman movie where he's allowed to just be himself and not viewed through the lens as "Lois's ex who returns to break up her family while she tries to move on" or a guy who can't stop waffling on "should I even bother doing the right thing" and starts being the man who loves his adopted planet and wants to use his absolute power to help absolutely, then you'll see people start to believe in him again.

  3. #18
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    So i have been just made aware by a marvel fanboy that apparantly due to the mcu's financial success and popularity its apparantly proof for why not only superman but most of the dc franchises characters are no longer relevant because their films are not as successful as marvels and fans are apparantly not interested in dc's characters, superman especially. I tried to use the poll from disney's avengers campus last year as proof but the guy debunked it by pointing out only 2000 people in california entered which is a small amount and therefore not valid. Add on to how apparantly unpopular and unrelevant cws superman and lois is, its further proof of superman no longer being relevant. He even stated after dawn of justice he is sick of superman and fans he knows fell the same aswell, commentary?

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    So i have been just made aware by a marvel fanboy that apparantly due to the mcu's financial success and popularity its apparantly proof for why not only superman but most of the dc franchises characters are no longer relevant because their films are not as successful as marvels and fans are apparantly not interested in dc's characters, superman especially. I tried to use the poll from disney's avengers campus last year as proof but the guy debunked it by pointing out only 2000 people in california entered which is a small amount and therefore not valid. Add on to how apparantly unpopular and unrelevant cws superman and lois is, its further proof of superman no longer being relevant. He even stated after dawn of justice he is sick of superman and fans he knows fell the same aswell, commentary?
    Why would any of us care about your literal who friend saying Superman sucks and is irrelevant? Sorry to be blunt but if you’re going to bump your thread every time you meet someone who thinks Superman sucks, you’ll be here forever. Your friend says that survey doesn’t count but then says Superman isn’t relevant and S&L sucks because he and everyone he knows feels that way? Does he know more than 2000 people because otherwise you can just as easily dismiss him as an irrelevant sample size the same way he did.

    Lots of people hate Superman and I don’t care. You’re never going to win them over and that’s ok, Superman is doing great right now, so just laugh at your friend and move on.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #20
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    His not my friend though, just a marvel fanboy i got into an argument with, sorry if i'm bothering you, just wondering others opinions and advice are in regards to claims like these are and if there are ways it can be refuted.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    His not my friend though, just a marvel fanboy i got into an argument with, sorry if i'm bothering you, just wondering others opinions and advice are in regards to claims like these are and if there are ways it can be refuted.
    Honestly? There's no substance to his claims. All he's really saying is that Marvel films are more popular than DC, and thus DC sucks... which... um....it's not a supported statement that has an actual factual basis. It's just an opinion really..

  7. #22
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    His not my friend though, just a marvel fanboy i got into an argument with, sorry if i'm bothering you, just wondering others opinions and advice are in regards to claims like these are and if there are ways it can be refuted.
    The guy's an idiot. I know plenty of Marvel fanboys who can appreciate Superman, but if that guy can't, it's on him. Tell him to wake you when he's ready for a hero with a sense of maturity and responsibility.

    Most of what that guy is spouting is just stuff they've heard from other people who heard it from other people, and has been repeated in the comics world since before the 90's to the point that it's a "truism" to the comic shop clique. When these things became talking points, they all were running to Wolverine and the like for the "cool factor." I like those heroes, too, but there's a reason Superman (imo) stands above them for me. Those people will never get Superman. And I'm ok with that.
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  8. #23
    Spectacular Member captchuck's Avatar
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    The Superman logo is everywhere in the real world. There are always people that think the most popular things "suck."

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    Ever notice how some of the biggest complaints people like to make for why superman is not interesting is the claims that he is either overpowered to the point he rarely ever struggles against opponents or lacks character flaws that make him more realistic and relatable since people prefer characters to have alot more grey areas in personality.

    People claim that it is too cheap to pit him against characters of equal levels of power to himself as they find it unrealistic and that he should be nerfed to the point he is more capable of being harmed by more down to earth elements such as electricity so he can struggle more since it works better for other characters.

    For example, some fans claim captain america has officially replaced superman as an inspirational hero because despite the fact that he has a degree of superhuman capability, he still struggles, but successfully manages to overcome his challenges which makes him both inspirational and relatable due to his abilities being more down to earth. Or how spiderman is more interesting due his flaws and constant sacrifices that make him more heroic compared to supes.

    Are their any stories that prove otherwise in supermans favor that showcase how a powerhouse character like him can still be inspirational and interesting. Not to mention how people are using the excuses of realism against supes abilities are incorrect and how does indeed have a great level of relatability.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions.
    I have none at the moment, but just wanna point out that those opinions came from what's visible in the point of view of a casual perspective. The average people aren't creative writer who can imagine a scenario how someone so powerful can struggle. Heck, even writers sometimes can't.

    So they see obvious, the power, in a genre known for powers and fight scenes. Since that's the genre trapping, that's what the movies or comics keep showing, the powers and fighting are what they know and Superman is the most well known character in the genre, so the possibility that the story isn't about power and fighting doesn't even enter the mind.

    To change that perspective there needs to be more mainstream story that emphasize less on fighting in general to change the perception of the genre. Just like how once upon a time they managed to change the perception that Superhero Comics Aren't Just For Kids, they need to show that Superheroes Aren't Just About Fighting and Power Level.

    All the powers can still be there but fighting is not the main way it's used.

    No I don't know how. I'm just a consumer.

    Sorry I forgot to add:

    However, if there are stories like that and fans are already offering them, or if it's already movies, tv series, cartoon and their trailer showing that aspect, and they re rejecting them because it's uncool or whatever, because it's not what they want from a superhero story, then that's not a Superman problem, that's a Their Problem

    They want the fights, they want the struggle only in the context of the fight, but they don't want overpowered villains or depowered Superman, and they find other aspect of superhero story boring or they can't appreciate it, then they will never like Superman.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 06-19-2021 at 03:08 PM.

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