Superman August 2021 Solicitations

[garazza]

We already have an issue with jon playing golf with lois and clark..

Wow, two whole pages PKJ genuinely thought would satisfy fans!

Having a "Superfamily" moment doesn't justify not de-aging and making him a kid again. All it shows is that DC knows exactly what fans want and are very capable of delivering, but they adamantly refuse to because...they still haven't explained. All we have is speculation that DC wants to make Jon into Superbro 2.0 because those in power genuinely believe Superman is unrelatable and not relevant anymore.

[Sacred Knight]

This issue I take with any and all comparisons to Invincible is that the much maligned and incredibly unpopular new direction for Jon and the resurgence in popularity of Invincible due to the show are incomparable because those two events are purely coincidental. Whatever forces at DC that were against Jon being a long term investment and a kid where present well before the Invincible show was ever announced.

Remember when Tomasi had to fight tooth and nail against editorial to get the beloved county fair issue of his and Gleason's run published? Who knows what else went on behind the scenes. Who knows what great ideas were left on the cutting room floor because there were editors and execs that didn't understand or appreciate what Tomasi and Gleason and so many fans saw in Jon.

With the success of Invincible, I don't know what I fear more: Taylor being forced by editorial to write his book like Invincible or Taylor, on his own volition and taking it upon himself, writes Jon like Invincible solely because that's what's popular at the moment.

I hate the new direction as much as anyone, and for someone who generally disliked Rebirth too, loved the Our Town issue. But with all that said, Rebirth Superman did not ever blow the lid off of Superman's ceiling as it has existed for some time now and propel him upward into something that could not be denied. This is where I think some fans exaggerate. That its so mind-boggling they'd move on to something else. It really wasn't. Rebirth Superman at the end of the day did no better than the New 52 initiative. It had the better reviews, but reviews don't necessarily equate to overwhelming results, and in this case did not. In those terms, I could easily see why with their itchy trigger finger at the time they'd be ready to move on to the next gimmick. Its not really that they failed to understand or were just purposefully blind to see something incredible going on. They did understand that things were selling at pretty much the exact same rate. The same ebbs, the same flows that happened to every Didio initiative.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I hate the new direction as much as anyone, and for someone who generally disliked Rebirth too, loved the Our Town issue. But with all that said, Rebirth Superman did not ever blow the lid off of Superman's ceiling as it has existed for some time now and propel him upward into something that could not be denied. This is where I think some fans exaggerate. That its so mind-boggling they'd move on to something else. It really wasn't. Rebirth Superman at the end of the day did no better than the New 52 initiative. It had the better reviews, but reviews don't necessarily equate to overwhelming results, and in this case did not. In those terms, I could easily see why with their itchy trigger finger at the time they'd be ready to move on to the next gimmick. Its not really that they failed to understand or were just purposefully blind to see something incredible going on. They did understand that things were selling at pretty much the exact same rate. The same ebbs, the same flows that happened to every Didio initiative.

I feel they are getting diminishing results with each initiative. And, speaking of SM, over time, his books are getting relaunched more frequently than others. His OYL/post-IC relaunch lasted 5 years (2006/11), 5 years for the new52 (2011/6), almost 2 years for Rebirth (2016/8), 2+ years for Bendis (but his run was stretched due Covid, DiDio firing and 5g being postponed/altered). And I expect that Tom Taylor's Superman book won't last more than 2,5 years before a new #1 with the real Superman returning.

[Vordan]

I feel they are getting diminishing results with each initiative. And, speaking of SM, over time, his books are getting relaunched more frequently than others. His OYL/post-IC relaunch lasted 5 years (2006/11), 5 years for the new52 (2011/6), almost 2 years for Rebirth (2016/8), 2+ years for Bendis (but his run was stretched due Covid, DiDio firing and 5g being postponed/altered). And I expect that Tom Taylor's Superman book won't last more than 2,5 years before a new #1 with the real Superman returning.

Clark is still going to be in Action, so if you want the “real” Superman, you still get him. If his sales don’t rise due to everyone switching over I’m not sure they’ll be making a big deal of his “return”. Taylor’s Nightwing has had strong sales, so I think his Superman might perform likewise, whether I personally enjoy it or not.

Personally I’m enjoying PKJ Action very much, and there’s tons of other books featuring a solo Clark coming.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Clark is still going to be in Action, so if you want the “real” Superman, you still get him.

If his sales don’t rise due to everyone switching over I’m not sure they’ll be making a big deal of his “return”. Taylor’s Nightwing has had strong sales, so I think his Superman might perform likewise, whether I personally enjoy it or not.

Personally I’m enjoying PKJ Action very much, and there’s tons of other books featuring a solo Clark coming.

He'll be in Action but going in space or whatever, likely de-powered. Of course it's going to be a big deal if he returns to normal and take over the SM book again to justify another #1 relaunch. (Redesign his costume while at it )

If I have to guess, Taylor's SM sales will be below Bendis'. We'll see.

[garazza]

I hate the new direction as much as anyone, and for someone who generally disliked Rebirth too, loved the Our Town issue. But with all that said, Rebirth Superman did not ever blow the lid off of Superman's ceiling as it has existed for some time now and propel him upward into something that could not be denied. This is where I think some fans exaggerate. That its so mind-boggling they'd move on to something else. It really wasn't. Rebirth Superman at the end of the day did no better than the New 52 initiative. It had the better reviews, but reviews don't necessarily equate to overwhelming results, and in this case did not. In those terms, I could easily see why with their itchy trigger finger at the time they'd be ready to move on to the next gimmick. Its not really that they failed to understand or were just purposefully blind to see something incredible going on. They did understand that things were selling at pretty much the exact same rate. The same ebbs, the same flows that happened to every Didio initiative.

By all accounts, Superman Rebirth sold as well as it needed to. Superman in general is a relatively low-selling book, which is not in of itself a bad thing. It isn't at the bottom of the list of best to worst selling books each month, but it definitely won't top the list nor should it. Despite being the superhero all others are based on, Superman is a solid mid-card performer in DC's line-up that can sometimes, but not very often, be in the upper mid-card. He's not a main eventer. He is simply a very reliable talent that can be inserted anywhere where DC needs him. As a proponent of Superman Rebirth, I never pointed to its monthly sales, but its long-term storytelling potential, as to why what Tomasi, Gleason, and Jurgens were laying down should be the way forward for Superman.

New 52 was a deviation from the norm hoping to "revitalize" the character and when that didn't catch on, they brought back Post-Crisis Superman, the character everyone loved. However, just because people wanted a more seasoned and mature and wise Superman doesn't mean that there's a lot there story-wise. Jon was often called a breath of fresh air because he was a breath of fresh air. He breathed new life into what had become a relatively stale and stagnant character. Relatively speaking, Superman Rebirth was barely allowed to exhale and draw a second breath before DC got tired of something that fans were genuinely excited for and actually looking forward to. Not to mix metaphors, but Jon is a seed that hasn't even germinated yet, but for some reason DC got upset that he had yet to bear fruit, so they decided to expedite the process against the common wisdom that building long-lasting characters takes time.

Clark is still going to be in Action, so if you want the “real” Superman, you still get him. If his sales don’t rise due to everyone switching over I’m not sure they’ll be making a big deal of his “return”.

My searing hot take is that PKJ is a better writer than Taylor and I think DC is going to do a great disservice to him by not marketing his genuinely fresh and interesting AC nearly as hard as they probably will with SSoK.

Taylor’s Nightwing has had strong sales, so I think his Superman might perform likewise, whether I personally enjoy it or not

Nightwing is selling well not solely because Tom Taylor is writing, but because fans have finally gotten Nightwing back with no fear of reprisal from Didio. Taylor is facing an very long and hard uphill with Jon that will be very difficult if not impossible to overcome. If Taylor wants the book sell, then he needs to de-age Jon. DC is dooming his reputation and status as a fan-favorite writer by not letting him do for Jon what was done for Dick. To Dick Grayson fans, Taylor is a hero. To Jon Kent fans, he is a traitor and an enemy of the people.

It's simply not enough to assume that the book will fail on its own. Support for it has to be actively withheld in order to guarantee its demise and the de-aging of Jon.

[manwhohaseverything]

Wow, two whole pages PKJ genuinely thought would satisfy fans!

Having a "Superfamily" moment doesn't justify not de-aging and making him a kid again.

Well,I am sad for you.I guess..what do you want exactly 5 issues of jon playing poker with his dad and mom?Even tomasi did only use it as a background moment.Ofcourse,there were county fair issue which were great.Even that was one issue.I don't see why pkj or anyone won't do that?De-aging him won't bring back any fun in super-sons.Why?Cause they are just doing the same-old shtick with them.It gets old.Fast.They weren't going anywhere.There is no point being made.Jon and damian are still going back to squabbling and punching each other,afterwards"saving the day".Jon doesn't develop and neither does damian.The past two super-sons was filler...it felt like it..Either they make jon kid again actually progress the character or that's done..

New 52 was a deviation from the norm hoping to "revitalize" the character and when that didn't catch on, they brought back Post-Crisis Superman, the character everyone loved. However, just because people wanted a more seasoned and mature and wise Superman doesn't mean that there's a lot there story-wise.

I wouldn't call mr.Boyscout dad or heavenly father mature or seasoned let alone wise.The guy is paternal and constantly seeks people to "save" from themselves.How does jon fix clark kent superman?It didn't.Heck! for me,i started following jon instead of clark.Clark kent superman was just pa kent with powers.There is nothing to root for in clark as a champion(He isn't much of champion.Just a guy with savior complex) or as symbol.He wants to save people by being an example.He is farcry from even allmight who just wants to give the world riddled with crime a symbol that makes them smile.Someone who gets the tar beat out of them day in/day out with consequences that last and still smiles,in order to do that.it was when they took jon away that everything wrong or limiting(that would be the right word) with superman ip was slapped to my face...eeesh! the character is hard to swallow..

[garazza]

Well,I am sad for you.I guess..what do you want exactly 5 issues of jon playing poker with his dad and mom?Even tomasi did only use it as a background moment.Ofcourse,there were county fair issue which were great.Even that was one issue.I don't see why pkj or anyone won't do that?De-aging him won't bring back any fun in super-sons.Why?Cause they are just doing the same-old shtick with them.It gets old.Fast.They weren't going anywhere.There is no point being made.Jon and damian are still going back to squabbling and punching each other,afterwards"saving the day".Jon doesn't develop and neither does damian.The past two super-sons was filler...it felt like it..Either they make jon kid again actually progress the character or that's done..

Would Bendis' run not have been enhanced if he had one moment like the Kents playing poker or mini-golf at any point in his run? He showed he was very much capable of that in his Man of Steel. I genuinely loved the "Which boy?" "This boy?" "Me boy?" moment and if Bendis had kept to that instead of what can be described as anti-Rebirth, then I think he would have found more success, because what about his run actually needed Jon to be aged up? Wouldn't everything have been better off if Jon was simply left as is?

Adventures and Challenge of the Super Sons are both set before a very defined point in time, so those two books can't do anything to contradict what came after that point. They weren't allowed to do anything new and yet Tomasi still found ways to add extra layers of depth to Jon like how he writes for the school paper.

Aging up Jon stunted any and all growth for his character in the same way setting Adventures and Challenge in the past hindered those books. By de-aging him, his character can go back to developing and maturing over time instead of having zero potential for growth. By de-aging him, Super Sons can go back to mattering and having an actual effect on the characters.

[HsssH]

Nightwing is selling well not solely because Tom Taylor is writing, but because fans have finally gotten Nightwing back with no fear of reprisal from Didio.

Yes, imagine the horrors of getting something like Grayson again.

I hate the new direction as much as anyone, and for someone who generally disliked Rebirth too, loved the Our Town issue. But with all that said, Rebirth Superman did not ever blow the lid off of Superman's ceiling as it has existed for some time now and propel him upward into something that could not be denied. This is where I think some fans exaggerate. That its so mind-boggling they'd move on to something else. It really wasn't. Rebirth Superman at the end of the day did no better than the New 52 initiative. It had the better reviews, but reviews don't necessarily equate to overwhelming results, and in this case did not. In those terms, I could easily see why with their itchy trigger finger at the time they'd be ready to move on to the next gimmick. Its not really that they failed to understand or were just purposefully blind to see something incredible going on. They did understand that things were selling at pretty much the exact same rate. The same ebbs, the same flows that happened to every Didio initiative.

Looking back now I wonder if we can even call "Rebirth Superman" an actual direction? To me now it looks like a stopgap before they can set up Jon.

[Robotman]

I’m definitely not a fan of Jon taking over the Superman mantle but I really hate the fact that his costume isn’t very distinctive from Clark’s. It just seems like they’re trying to do a “modern” or “cool” version of the classic costume. I think he should at least lose the cape. If he’s going to look just like a younger version of Clark with a very similar costume really what’s the point? I’ll continue to refer to Jon as New Coke. I’ve also seen people on Twitter call him “Poochy” which cracked me up.

[manwhohaseverything]

Would Bendis' run not have been enhanced if he had one moment like the Kents playing poker or mini-golf at any point in his run? He showed he was very much capable of that in his Man of Steel. I genuinely loved the "Which boy?" "This boy?" "Me boy?" moment and if Bendis had kept to that instead of what can be described as anti-Rebirth, then I think he would have found more success, because what about his run actually needed Jon to be aged up? Wouldn't everything have been better off if Jon was simply left as is?

Adventures and Challenge of the Super Sons are both set before a very defined point in time, so those two books can't do anything to contradict what came after that point. They weren't allowed to do anything new and yet Tomasi still found ways to add extra layers of depth to Jon like how he writes for the school paper.

Aging up Jon stunted any and all growth for his character in the same way setting Adventures and Challenge in the past hindered those books. By de-aging him, his character can go back to developing and maturing over time instead of having zero potential for growth. By de-aging him, Super Sons can go back to mattering and having an actual effect on the characters.

Yeah! didn't like any of bendis.Especially,his humor.And not every writer is gonna be bendis.Well,jon needed to be Superman...Not a boy.So that needed him to be aged-up.There needs to be supermen of different flavors.Not everyone enjoys the Modern superman.I certainly don't care.I want things lore much deeper than "Classic" which is basicaly donner and byrne...

Yes,i know.and No,it didn't.kid Jon has been stuck in the same state we left him after the titans rejection.

you say over time.What's the time frame?what's the payoff?what's the end point?if you say 30 years,that ain't happening...
In the mean time,how do you deal with Superman ip being stuck with not being able to tell stories beyond a certain tone.Can you do a heist story with superman?A western? a horror?a gripping investigation story?a thriller of any kind(political?)? an adventure story for instance like that of indiana johnes?You can't do anything with superman without rattling some cages.You can't do satire.I firmly believe you can't do a parody either or slapstick or anything like that..God forbid superman has actual humor.Instead of serious "drama"

I’m definitely not a fan of Jon taking over the Superman mantle but I really hate the fact that his costume isn’t very distinctive from Clark’s. It just seems like they’re trying to do a “modern” or “cool” version of the classic costume. I think he should at least lose the cape. If he’s going to look just like a younger version of Clark with a very similar costume really what’s the point? I’ll continue to refer to Jon as New Coke. I’ve also seen people on Twitter call him “Poochy” which cracked me up.

Dude!what's wrong with being cool?you know superman was cool as kickass scifi action character that bonkers **** and actually had balls to challenge people based on his belief,to admit he was wrong and when actually had capacity to be wrong instead of safe.when he was daring,reckless,..etc.I am for jon loosing the cape.i don't see any simarities between any costume jon has had so for and Clark's suit,except for the armour..Jon just has the same colour scheme..His build,his hair,..etc are all different..

[oneveryfineday]

Would Bendis' run not have been enhanced if he had one moment like the Kents playing poker or mini-golf at any point in his run? He showed he was very much capable of that in his Man of Steel. I genuinely loved the "Which boy?" "This boy?" "Me boy?" moment and if Bendis had kept to that instead of what can be described as anti-Rebirth, then I think he would have found more success, because what about his run actually needed Jon to be aged up? Wouldn't everything have been better off if Jon was simply left as is?

Bendis said in a podcast interview that when he was brought in they were already planning to make big changes to the Super family after Action Comics #1000, so I think it’s unfair to put the blame on him. A big status quo shift like that comes from the higher ups anyway. There’s this about Didio wanting his Jon as Superman book:

https://www.cbr.com/interview-brian-...es-millennium/

I actually first got to pitch [Legion of Super-Heroes] to [DC Comics Co-Publisher, Dan Didio] the first time we met each other just to see if we were going to do this. He was talking about something that he wanted and I mentioned, "I don't even know if the pieces line up with this, this, and this but if it's [Jon Kent] who gets to go, you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too."

Also here’s your explanation for why Jon was aged up:

They were always worried that Jon was just going to be Superman's little Bat-Mite sidekick or something and that's not what happened but they were worried about it.

I don’t agree with this assessment, and I definitely know you won’t agree with it, but that’s what it was. This decision was made years ago and there’s different management now, so personally I don’t care to argue DC with the choice. *shrug*

[oneveryfineday]

In the mean time,how do you deal with Superman ip being stuck with not being able to tell stories beyond a certain tone.Can you do a heist story with superman?A western? a horror?a gripping investigation story?a thriller of any kind(political?)? an adventure story for instance like that of indiana johnes?You can't do anything with superman without rattling some cages.You can't do satire.I firmly believe you can't do a parody either or slapstick or anything like that..God forbid superman has actual humor.Instead of serious "drama"

Man, this why I totally love the Silver Age. They threw every genre at Superman back then: sci-fi, historical, space opera, romance, soap, adventure, fairy tale, fantasy, they had everything (except maybe for political thriller). It was all tied up in absurdism and superdickery but I think it’s great. I do think modern Supes is stuck compared to the past.

[kryptonian]

We can argue all day about rebirth and it’s merits


But let’s be real here


Teen Jon is not popular, he isn’t going to be able to carry this series past the 12th issue, and dc is going to do something fucking stupid in response.


Regardless of what Tom Taylor does...Jon fans are pretty exclusively fans of kid Jon and have soundly and repeatably rejected this new version of the character TWICE

With the declining sales of the bendis Superman run and the pathetic cancellation of LOSH


And Clark fans aren’t going to buy this series on the virtue of the fact that it doesn’t Star Clark


Whose this series for exactly?

It appeals to no one outside of Tom Taylor fans...and they aren’t going to be enough to keep this series from being canceled in 12 issues

[Vordan]

Some of the worst parts of Tomasi’s run were when he kept trying to recreate the magic of “Our Town”. The vacation filler was genuinely awful, some of the worst storytelling I’ve seen. Boring “wholesome” storytelling with nothing interesting to say and terrible art. Jimenez was every bit as key to why “Our Town” worked, and I don’t think people acknowledge that enough. So no I don’t need Clark teaching Jon to play mini golf or whatever, that feels like tumblr/Twitter bait to make people go “UwU my sweet cinnamon roll baby boy”. I don’t think positioning Clark as the “retro” character as Rebirth did is good in the long run. Am I 100% happy with how they’ve handled Jon? No not really, the age up feels pretty sudden and I don’t like how similar to Clark they’ve made him. I like Superman having a son, I don’t think married Superman with no kids has any gas left in the tank storytelling wise. But I also don’t want the franchise to revolve entirely on Jon, and Jon getting his own book will hopefully help with that.

Also if Taylor crashes and burns and gets banned from the Superman books, that’s a win for me as I don’t like his Supermen (any of them). So either the Jon book is good and it helps flesh Jon out or Taylor flops and is contained to Injustice and his other edgy Elseworlds where he can’t screw with the main Superman. Either one is a win for me.