Superman August 2021 Solicitations

[Vishop]

Superman and Authority by Morrison??? 😍😍😍

[Quinlan58]

Rebirth itself ran out of gas after the Black Dawn arc, and didn't recover until the Bizarro arc at the very end (which I know some people hate too due to what it did with Bizarro). I agree that the age-up has been badly handled, that it radically altered a character that had managed to gain a passionate fanbase, but returning to Tomasi/Gleason ground is a pretty terrible idea when even they clearly had no idea what to do during the latter half of the run, and honestly never had any idea what to do with Clark or Lois, just Jon (which it did splendidly during the first half).

[Sacred Knight]

By all accounts, Superman Rebirth sold as well as it needed to. Superman in general is a relatively low-selling book, which is not in of itself a bad thing. It isn't at the bottom of the list of best to worst selling books each month, but it definitely won't top the list nor should it. Despite being the superhero all others are based on, Superman is a solid mid-card performer in DC's line-up that can sometimes, but not very often, be in the upper mid-card. He's not a main eventer. He is simply a very reliable talent that can be inserted anywhere where DC needs him. As a proponent of Superman Rebirth, I never pointed to its monthly sales, but its long-term storytelling potential, as to why what Tomasi, Gleason, and Jurgens were laying down should be the way forward for Superman.

New 52 was a deviation from the norm hoping to "revitalize" the character and when that didn't catch on, they brought back Post-Crisis Superman, the character everyone loved. However, just because people wanted a more seasoned and mature and wise Superman doesn't mean that there's a lot there story-wise. Jon was often called a breath of fresh air because he was a breath of fresh air. He breathed new life into what had become a relatively stale and stagnant character. Relatively speaking, Superman Rebirth was barely allowed to exhale and draw a second breath before DC got tired of something that fans were genuinely excited for and actually looking forward to. Not to mix metaphors, but Jon is a seed that hasn't even germinated yet, but for some reason DC got upset that he had yet to bear fruit, so they decided to expedite the process against the common wisdom that building long-lasting characters takes time.

It definitely sold to par. What I meant though was that for me to be personally shocked that they'd move on to a new direction quickly, it would have had to have been a situation where something shot the character above that par. Something where you could objectively look at it and say "this is it, look at what it did numbers wise." If that had happened and they changed course, then I could see being so aghast as it just wouldn't make sense business wise. Rebirth didn't do that. Nothing's done that. So with the way the Didio era worked, it made perfect sense to me that they'd move onto the next thing fast just like they did every time prior.

As for Jon being a breath of fresh air, I've just always personally disagreed with that. For me, a breath of fresh air for Superman himself would be something that specifically revitalized Superman himself. And he IS the lore so everything should revolve around him and depend on him. He's what Superman fans show up to read about. To me Rebirth didn't do that. It didn't add so much a new dimension to Clark as it did just add a new character that took a buttload of focus. I'm not saying we didn't get to see Superman be a dad at all. Just not enough to justify the move. That's rather what happens when you do automatic age ups. He and Lois were instantly robbed of key character growth right then and there, right out of the gate. Add to that about 100x fold now. And don't get me started on Lois. It didn't take long for any mom-characterization for her to fade into oblivion completely. I've said it tons of times to the point of broken record I know, but my main issue is the direction told me that the motivation to do this wasn't Superman and Lois. And that's a huge problem right at the starting line.

This is all acknowledging that I was butthurt about Rebirth going in because I was a fan of the New 52 Superman overall. I wouldn't have been receptive in the beginning no matter what after killing off a Superman incarnation I'd grown attached to, I'm not trying to pretend otherwise. But this is 5 years worth of reflection. I can say with all honesty that if I genuinely felt the changes were crafted well, I would have eventually at the very least gotten used to it to the point of acceptance if not a raving a fan of it.

[kryptonian]

Rebirth itself ran out of gas after the Black Dawn arc, and didn't recover until the Bizarro arc at the very end (which I know some people hate too due to what it did with Bizarro). I agree that the age-up has been badly handled, that it radically altered a character that had managed to gain a passionate fanbase, but returning to Tomasi/Gleason ground is a pretty terrible idea when even they clearly had no idea what to do during the latter half of the run, and honestly never had any idea what to do with Clark or Lois, just Jon (which it did splendidly during the first half).

At least it had gas


If bendis left ANYTHING worth continuing...You wouldn’t need Tom Taylor and grant Morrison to revitalize your series.

But bendis destroyed what could have been a solid status quo for Superman for at least 10 years and replaced it with another saggy status quo begging for a reboot as soon as son of Kal-el is inevitably cancelled.

[Robotman]

Yeah! didn't like any of bendis.Especially,his humor.And not every writer is gonna be bendis.Well,jon needed to be Superman...Not a boy.So that needed him to be aged-up.There needs to be supermen of different flavors.Not everyone enjoys the Modern superman.I certainly don't care.I want things lore much deeper than "Classic" which is basicaly donner and byrne...

Yes,i know.and No,it didn't.kid Jon has been stuck in the same state we left him after the titans rejection.

you say over time.What's the time frame?what's the payoff?what's the end point?if you say 30 years,that ain't happening...
In the mean time,how do you deal with Superman ip being stuck with not being able to tell stories beyond a certain tone.Can you do a heist story with superman?A western? a horror?a gripping investigation story?a thriller of any kind(political?)? an adventure story for instance like that of indiana johnes?You can't do anything with superman without rattling some cages.You can't do satire.I firmly believe you can't do a parody either or slapstick or anything like that..God forbid superman has actual humor.Instead of serious "drama"


Dude!what's wrong with being cool?you know superman was cool as kickass scifi action character that bonkers **** and actually had balls to challenge people based on his belief,to admit he was wrong and when actually had capacity to be wrong instead of safe.when he was daring,reckless,..etc.I am for jon loosing the cape.i don't see any simarities between any costume jon has had so for and Clark's suit,except for the armour..Jon just has the same colour scheme..His build,his hair,..etc are all different..

I put COOL in quotation marks because it’s DC/WB execs idea of what cool is. Kind of like putting the “Damaged” tattoo on the forehead of Jared Leto’s Joker.

[Vordan]

Rebirth itself ran out of gas after the Black Dawn arc, and didn't recover until the Bizarro arc at the very end (which I know some people hate too due to what it did with Bizarro). I agree that the age-up has been badly handled, that it radically altered a character that had managed to gain a passionate fanbase, but returning to Tomasi/Gleason ground is a pretty terrible idea when even they clearly had no idea what to do during the latter half of the run, and honestly never had any idea what to do with Clark or Lois, just Jon (which it did splendidly during the first half).

I liked the Bizarro arc and I thought issue 45 was honestly one of the best issues in the entire run, so they ended on a very strong note which is why, despite how my rating of the run has fallen over time, I’ve bought the Omnibus. But yeah they didn’t have any great ideas on where to go. Gleason said they wanted to introduce a daughter and that’s proof to me that they were running on fumes. They had barely had Jon for two years, had done incredibly little to really build him up as a separate character in his own right, and now they wanted to introduce another kid? Nah, it was time for a new direction.

[garazza]

Bendis said in a podcast interview that when he was brought in they were already planning to make big changes to the Super family after Action Comics #1000, so I think it’s unfair to put the blame on him. A big status quo shift like that comes from the higher ups anyway. There’s this about Didio wanting his Jon as Superman book:

https://www.cbr.com/interview-brian-...es-millennium/

I actually first got to pitch [Legion of Super-Heroes] to [DC Comics Co-Publisher, Dan Didio] the first time we met each other just to see if we were going to do this. He was talking about something that he wanted and I mentioned, "I don't even know if the pieces line up with this, this, and this but if it's [Jon Kent] who gets to go, you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too."

Also here’s your explanation for why Jon was aged up:

They were always worried that Jon was just going to be Superman's little Bat-Mite sidekick or something and that's not what happened but they were worried about it.

I don’t agree with this assessment, and I definitely know you won’t agree with it, but that’s what it was. This decision was made years ago and there’s different management now, so personally I don’t care to argue DC with the choice. *shrug*

Oh yeah, I remember reading that when it was first published and I was absolutely floored by all that BS. They wanted to do something new and different with Jon to make him distinct from his father and they ended up literally making him a carbon copy of Clark. You want to put Jon on his own original journey? Don't put him on the Legion of Super-Heroes! That's Clark's thing. Like how do you mess up that badly, it almost seems purposeful. What they should have done is put Jon on the Teen Titans. After they voted to not let him join, Ben Percy would've stayed on the book so the team could work on their trust issues and once they bonded and came closer together, they would then vote to let Jon join, then the book could've been handed off to Patrick Gleason so he could do the TT book he's always been wanting to do.

We can argue all day about rebirth and it’s merits


But let’s be real here


Teen Jon is not popular, he isn’t going to be able to carry this series past the 12th issue, and dc is going to do something fucking stupid in response.


Regardless of what Tom Taylor does...Jon fans are pretty exclusively fans of kid Jon and have soundly and repeatably rejected this new version of the character TWICE

With the declining sales of the bendis Superman run and the pathetic cancellation of LOSH


And Clark fans aren’t going to buy this series on the virtue of the fact that it doesn’t Star Clark


Whose this series for exactly?

It appeals to no one outside of Tom Taylor fans...and they aren’t going to be enough to keep this series from being canceled in 12 issues

My thoughts exactly.

Some of the worst parts of Tomasi’s run were when he kept trying to recreate the magic of “Our Town”. The vacation filler was genuinely awful, some of the worst storytelling I’ve seen. Boring “wholesome” storytelling with nothing interesting to say and terrible art. Jimenez was every bit as key to why “Our Town” worked, and I don’t think people acknowledge that enough. So no I don’t need Clark teaching Jon to play mini golf or whatever, that feels like tumblr/Twitter bait to make people go “UwU my sweet cinnamon roll baby boy”. I don’t think positioning Clark as the “retro” character as Rebirth did is good in the long run. Am I 100% happy with how they’ve handled Jon? No not really, the age up feels pretty sudden and I don’t like how similar to Clark they’ve made him. I like Superman having a son, I don’t think married Superman with no kids has any gas left in the tank storytelling wise. But I also don’t want the franchise to revolve entirely on Jon, and Jon getting his own book will hopefully help with that.

Also if Taylor crashes and burns and gets banned from the Superman books, that’s a win for me as I don’t like his Supermen (any of them). So either the Jon book is good and it helps flesh Jon out or Taylor flops and is contained to Injustice and his other edgy Elseworlds where he can’t screw with the main Superman. Either one is a win for me.

For me, Superman Rebirth was good not because it had wholesome family moments in it, but because it was kind of like a honeymoon period where we got to be reacquainted with Clark and Lois and their new family and have some fun moments before the book would transition into more typical Superman stories. I can't substantiate this, but I remember reading somewhere that one reason Didio may have had a bias against Jon was because Jon had become that star of the Superman books when Clark is supposed to be the star, and judging from what I've seen here, he wasn't too off-base and even I can't dispute that assessment, but I can dispute the reaction to it. From what I have seen of PKJ's work, I can say he would've been a great follow-up to Tomasi, Gleason, and Jurgens' Superman and AC if they were allowed to come to a conclusion on their own terms. If Didio wanted to rightfully shift focus away from Jon and back to Clark, then what Didio should've done was let Super Sons be Jon's book (or give him a Superboy solo) and then let PKJ tell cosmic Superman stories in the main books. Instead, we got what we got.

[Robanker]

We can argue all day about rebirth and it’s merits


But let’s be real here


Teen Jon is not popular, he isn’t going to be able to carry this series past the 12th issue, and dc is going to do something fucking stupid in response.


Regardless of what Tom Taylor does...Jon fans are pretty exclusively fans of kid Jon and have soundly and repeatably rejected this new version of the character TWICE

With the declining sales of the bendis Superman run and the pathetic cancellation of LOSH


And Clark fans aren’t going to buy this series on the virtue of the fact that it doesn’t Star Clark


Whose this series for exactly?

It appeals to no one outside of Tom Taylor fans...and they aren’t going to be enough to keep this series from being canceled in 12 issues

I like Teen Jon fine. I think a lot of Jon's fans like him, even if most of us prefer him as a child. As with most fandoms, it's the haters who spend most their time complaining ad naseum whereas people who like stuff generally post on it once and move on. They don't have something to tear down and vent frustration on.

The series is for people who want a Superman run they can get in on from ground zero, but don't want to know exactly what must happen (Usual remix of the Kents finding him, working at the Planet, Lois relationship, eventual death and rebirth, Batman is his best bro). It's for people who want vanilla bean instead of French vanilla. Some people really hate vanilla bean and wishes it was still vanilla and should flirt with change but never address it. And that's fine. That's how fandom works. We all draw our lines in the sand.

Will this work? I don't think anyone expects it to work long term. Even 5G, it was Didio's hail mary to do something big until the sales flagged and then they'd Crisis to get back to the OGs. There's zero chance he didn't factor the end of 5G into the plan with how quickly he broke the glass to try and reboot based on stories that have leaked during his reign and the actual printed work.

I buy these books for Clark and that's not really going to change, but a lot of Jon's fans on this board don't hate Teen Jon. It's not our favorite version of the character to be certain, but he's not any more divisive than Superdad or the marriage. Much like those three things, however, certain posters are determined to make everyone think that Teen Jon is ruining DC comics.

[garazza]

I like Teen Jon fine. I think a lot of Jon's fans like him, even if most of us prefer him as a child. As with most fandoms, it's the haters who spend most their time complaining ad naseum whereas people who like stuff generally post on it once and move on. They don't have something to tear down and vent frustration on.

The series is for people who want a Superman run they can get in on from ground zero, but don't want to know exactly what must happen (Usual remix of the Kents finding him, working at the Planet, Lois relationship, eventual death and rebirth, Batman is his best bro). It's for people who want vanilla bean instead of French vanilla. Some people really hate vanilla bean and wishes it was still vanilla and should flirt with change but never address it. And that's fine. That's how fandom works. We all draw our lines in the sand.

Will this work? I don't think anyone expects it to work long term. Even 5G, it was Didio's hail mary to do something big until the sales flagged and then they'd Crisis to get back to the OGs. There's zero chance he didn't factor the end of 5G into the plan with how quickly he broke the glass to try and reboot based on stories that have leaked during his reign and the actual printed work.

I buy these books for Clark and that's not really going to change, but a lot of Jon's fans on this board don't hate Teen Jon. It's not our favorite version of the character to be certain, but he's not any more divisive than Superdad or the marriage. Much like those three things, however, certain posters are determined to make everyone think that Teen Jon is ruining DC comics.

This is very fair-minded. I know what side I'm on and am very unapologetic about it, but I am not completely lacking in any self-awareness, so I very much appreciate a write-up like this.

[manwhohaseverything]

I put COOL in quotation marks because it’s DC/WB execs idea of what cool is. Kind of like putting the “Damaged” tattoo on the forehead of Jared Leto’s Joker.

That's creators call as far as i know.did ayer say he didn't do that?Maybe ayer finds that cool.These things are subjective...I am not gonna question a creators freedom to do whatever he/she/others wants with these characters

[oneveryfineday]

Oh yeah, I remember reading that when it was first published and I was absolutely floored by all that BS. They wanted to do something new and different with Jon to make him distinct from his father and they ended up literally making him a carbon copy of Clark. You want to put Jon on his own original journey? Don't put him on the Legion of Super-Heroes! That's Clark's thing. Like how do you mess up that badly, it almost seems purposeful. What they should have done is put Jon on the Teen Titans. After they voted to not let him join, Ben Percy would've stayed on the book so the team could work on their trust issues and once they bonded and came closer together, they would then vote to let Jon join, then the book could've been handed off to Patrick Gleason so he could do the TT book he's always been wanting to do.

Yeah, I also think Jon should’ve joined the Teen Titans, though I come at it with a different approach. Bendis got the assignment to age up Jon so the metric I judge him isn’t what he did but how well he did it...which I still think he botched. I have a couple gripes with his writing, but I’m going to focus on a specific one from the Hero’s Journey arc.



The last part of the Hero’s Journey is the Return, where our hero gets some external reward, returns to the place they were at the beginning, and reflects on how they’ve changed and how their world would never be he same. It’s important for the hero (along with the reader) to emotionally process the events that happened before preparing what’s next. After the Return, you can see the Hero’s Journey start again when the hero receives a new Call To Adventure.

So consider Jon’s lost years as his Hero’s Journey, and then let’s consider the time after his age up his Return. First, what’s odd is that Jon’s external reward is...to become the creator of the United Planets? Which is a cool idea, but had nothing to do with his journey, so it feels like an unearned reward.

The second weird thing is...Jon doesn’t return to where he was at the beginning and reflects on how his world can never be the same. Not meaningfully anyway.

How does Jon react going into his old bedroom filled with clothes that no longer fit him? How do his parents cope with the fact that the family photos on the mantle will show Jon progressing from baby to a young kid, and then there’s a gap where he’s practically a young adult? How does the rest of the world react to him?

After getting aged up, Jon should’ve stayed on Earth for a bit to 1) have him and the reader gain catharsis and closure 2) reorient the reader to the new version of Jon against a familiar setting.

Older Jon should not have left for LOSH so soon. He should have stayed on Earth with his family for a time and joined the Teen Titans. Like you said, the TT story could be one that shows how things have changed from what they once were. Skipping the catharsis/closure/reorientation stage denies readers emotional continuity, which is why a lot of people say Jon feels like a different character after the age up and why they want to go back to where the last emotional thread was.

If you’re writing a wife mourning for her husband’s death, do NOT skip any of the five stages of grief, no matter how obvious you think it is. You will lose your reader if you skip emotional beats.

I think after Jon is on Earth for a while he can join LOSH. Clark, Conner and Kara were all on it, and I’m a big fan of Jon continuing a Super family tradition.

So yeah. In the beginning I thought I disliked older Jon, but I just dislike Bendis’ Jon. Bendis skips over storytelling steps or he’s out of touch with his audience, because writing isn’t just about understanding the characters, it’s about firmly planting yourself in the psychology of your reader as well. I firmly believe any story can be told—the right way. Bendis’ writing just leaves me unsatisfied.

Which is why I’m actually optimistic about Taylor’s Superman book. Taylor does have his detractors, but no one can say that he doesn’t know his audience or isn’t a true crowd pleaser. I’m sure he’ll be redrawing the connections between younger Jon and older Jon that Bendis failed to do (I did it in my own head but that’s not the reader’s job). While Bendis goes “Hey! You should team up with Robin and do nothing else!”, Taylor says “I won’t forget the Super Sons friendship.” Bendis effed up by trying new stuff by scrapping the old, but Taylor is building on top of the old stuff to do the new stuff.

[babybats]

I'm another one of those kid Jon fans that really strongly hated the age-up, and then almost all of Bendis' later choices for the Super family/his writing in general, but I tend to like 75% of Taylor's writing so I'm a bit conflicted. I hate the initial direction taken, but what's done is done and if this new book is good then at least a better story can come out of a badly handled one, right?

But even if I wasn't still salty about the whole thing, this is a pretty boring premise. Maybe there's going to be more than meets the eye, but the only way I'd be interested in a Superman Jr. story is if I already loved the character. Which I did...just a different version of him, not this flash-forward Clark 2.0 character. idk just because I liked Jon before, I'll check it out and hope for the best but my hopes aren't very high, unfortunately.

And also just because many have said they didn't like or weren't impressed by the Tomasi/Gleason run, I just want to put out there that I really loved it. It felt refreshing and new to me, and I'm sad that most of what was set up there was just immediately thrown out, but I get that other fans want other things. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Superlad93]

So consider Jon’s lost years as his Hero’s Journey, and then let’s consider the time after his age up his Return. First, what’s odd is that Jon’s external reward is...to become the creator of the United Planets? Which is a cool idea, but had nothing to do with his journey, so it feels like an unearned reward.

I don't think I can possibly agree more. It's so refreshing to see someone take a reasonably critical eye and remark on that without devolving into "me hate Bendis". There are real issues to be had with how they went about it without assuming Bendis is the got damn devil. As someone who likes teen Jon a lot, really enjoyed Bendis run, and loved Legion, I think the actual story behind the age up was handled very poorly.

Given it a lot of thought, and I think the worm hole that "shipwrecks" Jon on Earth-3 should've actually landed him in some uncharted sector of space. Jon wakes up (maybe under a red sun) with no idea where he's at, and no sign of Jor-El. Earth-3's point in the narrative was to create a long term situation where Jon needed to grow up and fend for himself rather than waiting for his dad, mom, grandpa, or Damian. If there's any one thing about the volcano that's actual quite strong as a plot device, it's the fact that rather than springing into action and looking for a way out...Jon...just sits there and waits for someone older than him to save him. And when he does finally decide he has to do it himself, it's a literal trial by fire. Both of those ideas are very powerful, but Earth-3 itself is meaningless to Jon's overall narrative, and it actively does harm to the resolution with the creation of the United Planets and the Legion as a next step.

Ever read the young adult novel The Hatchet? Functionally speaking, THAT'S what we should've gotten. Jon jumping from world to world in hopes of finding a way home. But this is the space boonies we're talking about, so civilization is far and few in between, and there's a space third world country vibe to the places and people he does meet. But before that, Jon does what most young kids would do in that situation, he stays put and waits for an adult like the Earth-3 version. But the longer he waits the less power he has to work with because of the red sun. BUT the prospect of walking out into that vastness is scary. Every second that passes makes it more and more possible for things to hurt him! So you have him learning basic skills like fire starting without heat vision, building a shelter, learning to watch the weather (on multiple planets), and hunting for food (a cute scene that quickly turn intense would be Jon's first kill for food). Then when he's actually found people he learns local cultures and trading.

Eventually Jor-El does find him, and we actually learn that Jon wasn't lost in *just* space, but rather also in time. Turn out Jon was in the 31st century (roughly around the time the Legion were near his age), but he was in the uncharted space boonies outside of the UP net. The come full circle moment would be Jon eventually getting those system of planets into the UP and helping them thrive.

I'd have had him get the invitation to the Legion much the same way, but Saturn Girl would've given him a larger span of time to decide. During this time we'd do a lead up issue and then a soft (not crazy inter linked) crossover between Action, Superman, and Teen Titans that would be about Jon's return. He'd be unofficially on the Titans team mainly to highlight how it's not a good fit for him. The whole thing would probably span a collective of 5 or 6 issues as a sister piece to Man of Steel before he joins the Legion.

I can't prove it, but I think Earth-3 was only added because of editorial having plans for it. Notice how it has it's own book now, used in Suicide Squad, used in Young Justice, were Leone and Glory from the mafia and Star come from, and all the stuff during Trinity War and Superwoman's baby.

This is why I'm more than happy with Taylor glossing over it and just focusing on the Legion and Jor-El stuff.

[kryptonian]

One of the most exciting prospects of this series’s inevitable failure is that it will certainly put on a stain on Tom Taylor’s career and hopefully confine his overrated writing to Batman books and elseworlds


With a de-aging of Jon happening much sooner

[kryptonian]

I like Teen Jon fine. I think a lot of Jon's fans like him, even if most of us prefer him as a child. As with most fandoms, it's the haters who spend most their time complaining ad naseum whereas people who like stuff generally post on it once and move on. They don't have something to tear down and vent frustration on.

The series is for people who want a Superman run they can get in on from ground zero, but don't want to know exactly what must happen (Usual remix of the Kents finding him, working at the Planet, Lois relationship, eventual death and rebirth, Batman is his best bro). It's for people who want vanilla bean instead of French vanilla. Some people really hate vanilla bean and wishes it was still vanilla and should flirt with change but never address it. And that's fine. That's how fandom works. We all draw our lines in the sand.

Will this work? I don't think anyone expects it to work long term. Even 5G, it was Didio's hail mary to do something big until the sales flagged and then they'd Crisis to get back to the OGs. There's zero chance he didn't factor the end of 5G into the plan with how quickly he broke the glass to try and reboot based on stories that have leaked during his reign and the actual printed work.

I buy these books for Clark and that's not really going to change, but a lot of Jon's fans on this board don't hate Teen Jon. It's not our favorite version of the character to be certain, but he's not any more divisive than Superdad or the marriage. Much like those three things, however, certain posters are determined to make everyone think that Teen Jon is ruining DC comics.

Teen Jon isn’t ruining DC comics...but is definitely a symbol on why I wish dc never owned Superman


Damian would have NEVER been as robbed of potential growth as badly as Jon


Teen Jon has no potential for interesting stories...no personality to distinguish him from Clark...and no interesting coming of age stories to tell


He is a barren desert of NOTHING