Is The Solution To The Male Gaze To Sexualize Male Characters Too?

[Timothy Hunter]

This shouldn't apply to every comic book mind you, but the solution allegedly sexist "cheesecake" style of comic book artwork in my eyes is not to dump the way of drawing altogether but to simply draw the male characters in an objectified manner too. This would broaden the appeal of the art and create a situation where fand of the material and those who can oppose it can have their caoe and eat it too.

I mean if Ed Benes were to draw Black Canary with cleavage twice the size of her head, shouldn't he draw Gthe Flash with an equally large butt?

[Zelena]

I think the situation is saner when they turn the tables from time to time…







But not all the women have to be sexy… The important thing is to give them interesting roles.

[Ragged Maw]

This shouldn't apply to every comic book mind you, but the solution allegedly sexist "cheesecake" style of comic book artwork in my eyes is not to dump the way of drawing altogether but to simply draw the male characters in an objectified manner too. This would broaden the appeal of the art and create a situation where fand of the material and those who can oppose it can have their caoe and eat it too.

I mean if Ed Benes were to draw Black Canary with cleavage twice the size of her head, shouldn't he draw Gthe Flash with an equally large butt?

Seems logical.

[green_garnish]

This shouldn't apply to every comic book mind you, but the solution allegedly sexist "cheesecake" style of comic book artwork in my eyes is not to dump the way of drawing altogether but to simply draw the male characters in an objectified manner too. This would broaden the appeal of the art and create a situation where fand of the material and those who can oppose it can have their caoe and eat it too.

I mean if Ed Benes were to draw Black Canary with cleavage twice the size of her head, shouldn't he draw Gthe Flash with an equally large butt?

it's been done. didn't really work.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

This shouldn't apply to every comic book mind you, but the solution allegedly sexist "cheesecake" style of comic book artwork in my eyes is not to dump the way of drawing altogether but to simply draw the male characters in an objectified manner too. This would broaden the appeal of the art and create a situation where fand of the material and those who can oppose it can have their caoe and eat it too.

I mean if Ed Benes were to draw Black Canary with cleavage twice the size of her head, shouldn't he draw Gthe Flash with an equally large butt?

That's part of the solution but it doesn't solve the core problem. Zelena's said it- if you don't give female characters interesting roles or any real consideration, it's not really addressing the problem.

[Ragged Maw]

I think the situation is saner when they turn the tables from time to time…

Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before unwanted sexual advances are reinforced/encouraged as much for women as for men..............Wait.

it's been done. didn't really work.

Liefeld doesn't count!

[Zelena]

Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before unwanted sexual advances are reinforced/encouraged as much for women as for men..............Wait.

That’s not the point. It’s the “sprayed Sprinkler”. It’s not better to be harassed if you are a man or a woman.

It’s a cartoon: nothing serious can happened.

[Ragged Maw]

That’s not the point. It’s the “sprayed Sprinkler”. It’s not better to be harassed if you are a man or a woman.

It’s a cartoon: nothing serious can happened.

Heh. Tell that to the makers of Space Jam 2.

[Zelena]

Ma favourite solution is to show very different kinds of women… The woman is not “a thing”, but “a being”.

[Zelena]

Heh. Tell that to the makers of Space Jam 2.

And the actress disagreed with this decision: the Pew would not have got away with it…

[Ragged Maw]

And the actress disagreed with this decision: the Pew would not have got away with it…

Not saying I support the decision. Just saying that the creators apparently don't want to deal with any possible hits to PR, given today's climate.

[Powerboy]

This shouldn't apply to every comic book mind you, but the solution allegedly sexist "cheesecake" style of comic book artwork in my eyes is not to dump the way of drawing altogether but to simply draw the male characters in an objectified manner too. This would broaden the appeal of the art and create a situation where fand of the material and those who can oppose it can have their caoe and eat it too.

I mean if Ed Benes were to draw Black Canary with cleavage twice the size of her head, shouldn't he draw Gthe Flash with an equally large butt?

How many cheesecake magazines for men are there out there that cater to the male desire to gaze at scantily-clad or less than scantily-clad women? A lot.

How many magazines are out there for gay men? A lot.

How many are out there meant to appeal to women looking at nude men? Maybe one and there was a scandal years ago when it was revealed that it was really designed to appeal to gay men.

How many magazines with nude women are specifically designed to appeal to specifically to lesbian women???? Possibly zero.

Business being what it is, if there was a significant market for objectifying men (to women, not other men), comic books and every businesses out there would be exploiting it to the maximum possibility.

Not to say women don't like attractive men but it doesn't necessarily translate into cheesecake art.

That kind of art once did not work in comics because the readership was mostly prepubescent males. It works now because comic readers are largely adult males.

Absolutely, the cheesecake should be toned down. Not sure if it has a notable impact on sales though I suspect it does. If it does, they are not going to stop.

I stopped reading comics by the end of the '80s and started again by the end of the '90s when I walked into a "comic book store" for the first time and felt like I wasn't sure if I was in a comic book store or a porn store. I personally prefer comic books and porn to be two distinct and different things. But sales talk. Doing that with male characters isn't going to gain them anything and might lose them some.

[Timothy Hunter]

How many cheesecake magazines for men are there out there that cater to the male desire to gaze at scantily-clad or less than scantily-clad women? A lot.

How many magazines are out there for gay men? A lot.

How many are out there meant to appeal to women looking at nude men? Maybe one and there was a scandal years ago when it was revealed that it was really designed to appeal to gay men.

How many magazines with nude women are specifically designed to appeal to specifically to lesbian women???? Possibly zero.

Business being what it is, if there was a significant market for objectifying men (to women, not other men), comic books and every businesses out there would be exploiting it to the maximum possibility.

Not to say women don't like attractive men but it doesn't necessarily translate into cheesecake art.

That kind of art once did not work in comics because the readership was mostly prepubescent males. It works now because comic readers are largely adult males.

Absolutely, the cheesecake should be toned down. Not sure if it has a notable impact on sales though I suspect it does. If it does, they are not going to stop.

I stopped reading comics by the end of the '80s and started again by the end of the '90s when I walked into a "comic book store" for the first time and felt like I wasn't sure if I was in a comic book store or a porn store. I personally prefer comic books and porn to be two distinct and different things. But sales talk. Doing that with male characters isn't going to gain them anything and might lose them some.

Harlequin Romance novels and other salacious literature seems to me like the female equivalent of a Playboy or a Penthouse.

[CSTowle]

I believe the argument is that "cheesecake" art is a form of the objectification of women. Our history and culture has, over time, been largely written by and catered towards men and a result of that was seeing women as ideally beautiful objects more seen than heard. The ideal being thin/busty/young/innocent. The unspoken lesson girls who turn into women absorb when viewing this is that they need to aim towards this goal/ideal, and that this is largely what they will be seen as (if they're lucky). Pretty little things. Not human beings with thoughts/feelings/interests of their own. This is a pretty awful lesson to teach young women, and young men. Boys/men may intellectually know these "ideals" are artificial, but it's still absorbed into the less "thinky" (lower-brain) parts of the mind and isn't great for their ability to empathize with women.

There's no equivalent on the male side, and the answer shouldn't be to create one. I'd say the answer is to look at things like cheesecake art/porn/fashion trends and ask if they do more harm than good and if so how to change that? Not saying there's no place for it, but as a kid did I need a Jean Grey (and a Storm, and a Rogue, and depending on the artist a Jubilee and Kitty Pryde) with Double-D cup sizes and skintight spandex? If I didn't have that would it change any of the major storylines I loved that had absolutely nothing to do with how attractive any of them are? Of course not. We're sexual beings, it's hard-wired into us. But we don't need an Aunt May with sex appeal (Disney). Maybe a more balanced mix gender-wise in the decision-making rooms and continued education on how these things impact young women will lead to less of this.

[Mister Mets]

I think the solution is to offer different work for different audiences. Some people are going to like cheesecake art, and some will be embarrassed by it (and others will like it in some contexts but not others.) If there's a marker for sexualized male characters, those comics can be made too.