Curse of the B-Listers, or What Went Wrong With the New Warriors

[dedpool79]

Double shipping X-Men and Avengers titles at 3.99 is what went wrong with the New Warriors and everyone of Marvels lower tier characters. Marvel has created an environment were these books can no longer survive, it also makes me angrier over the fact that Marvel refuses to make a Big Hero 6 book, they could make these diverse characters A-Listers and there book number one over night, just like with Guardians but they refuse! I would kill for something like that to happen to the New Warriors. Spinning out of InHumanity and New Nova didn't help either.

I think you're pretty close with that. There was some meandering in the storylines, but, yeah, absolutely the double shipping maybe just killed it. I dig the new Nova (mostly), and I'm fine with the idea of Warriors spinning out of that book, but if they were going that route, why not a completely new team (instead of half of one)?

[Trevel8182]

I think you're pretty close with that. There was some meandering in the storylines, but, yeah, absolutely the double shipping maybe just killed it. I dig the new Nova (mostly), and I'm fine with the idea of Warriors spinning out of that book, but if they were going that route, why not a completely new team (instead of half of one)?

Oops! Sorry. I was not trying to intentionally ding New Nova, I was just saying that it was not a very sturdy foundation or big enough of a place to spin-off from to make a successful book. I agree! I think the team should be made up of all new members. If theirs a bright side to this maybe we will finally see Speedball and Justice follow in the footsteps of the there fellow Warriors and move on to bigger and better things. Maybe it's finally time for Vance to embrace Major Victory!

[Punisher007]

I think that it comes down to several things:

1. It's really hard for "lesser-known" books to really catch on these days unless they have a really interesting/unique pitch (and even then it doesn't always pan out). New Warriors is a well-written, fun, and genuinely good book, but also one that's somewhat conventional and "old-school." I'm not even saying that that's a BAD thing, just that it could have turned some people off of buying the book.

2. The marketing/promotion of the book wasn't great.

3. The niche that the NW once filled isn't so much of a niche anymore. The "younger heroes teaming up" idea is something that quite a few books do these days. So unless you have a really interesting/unique take on it, it's easy to get lost in the shuffle.

4. Some people were probably turned off that we had all of these new characters instead of "classic" Warriors. I will personally never understand this attitude because imo the "rotating roster" aspect of team books is part of the fun and not changing things up can make things boring/stale after awhile. But clearly others just have this attitude and wouldn't support the book as a result.

It's disappointing because it's really a good book and who knows where these characters will show up again or how long we'll have to wait. Also, I want to get some kind of answer to the "is Water Snake really Namorita or not" question since they keep bringing it up.

[Mr MajestiK]

No Dwayne Taylor, Namorita or Richard Rider = zero interest from me so hasta lavista to another failed experiment on Marvel's part.

I have no problem with new characters being introduced but Marvel have this bad habit of rubbishing the concerns of dedicated fans of older characters whilst labeling said fans as malcontents and then wonder why the new characters they feel are so much "cooler" fail to gain traction.

[SilverZeal]

YOST SHOULD NT HV ALIEN8D FANS OF NYT THRASHER/DWAYNE TURNER

NW is & shd b Marvel perfect answer 2 DC’s TT.

We/SZ askd, prayed, beggd & pleaded 4 NT(Dwayne….or even his bro in sum capacity) 2 b in dis recent run of NW & it was very VERY painful 2 deliber8ly choose 2 avoid dis title bcuz we/SZ r md fans of Yost…. but gatdammit… y….y did Yost choose 2 alien8 us/SZ/NT fans?

Y?

Now NW is cancelled & we/NW fans will all hv 2 endure anothr very looong drought without d NW shwing-up anywhr.

Der’s no TT without ROBIN…No core adjectiveless Avngrs without Cap & most certainy cannot entertain any NW without NT.

We/SZ sooo desper8ly wantd 2 supprt dis title bcuz we/SZ hv waitd so long 4 it…but we/SZ totally CAN NOT accept any NW without NT/Dwayne. PERIOD!

[Trevel8182]

Really hoping Yost can squeeze in the resurrection or a tease of a resurrection of Dwayne before his run ends. Man! I really miss Nighthrasher.

[Punisher007]

No Dwayne Taylor, Namorita or Richard Rider = zero interest from me so hasta lavista to another failed experiment on Marvel's part.

I have no problem with new characters being introduced but Marvel have this bad habit of rubbishing the concerns of dedicated fans of older characters whilst labeling said fans as malcontents and then wonder why the new characters they feel are so much "cooler" fail to gain traction.

Yeah except that they did none of that in this case, so you bringing it up is both ridiculous and meaningless. Hyperbole at it's finest.

[Mr MajestiK]

Yeah except that they did none of that in this case, so you bringing it up is both ridiculous and meaningless. Hyperbole at it's finest.

More than a few readers have expressed their displeasure with the new Nova character as you obviouly know yourself and most of us are familiar with the back and forth snarkfests that characterized dicussions on Sam Alexander with a certain Marvel editor repeatedly going out of his way to belittle readers who wanted to know what the deal with Richard Rider's fate was.

The original Nova was part and parcel of the original New Warriors ensemble alongside Night Thrasher, (who actually formed the group) Namorita, Speedball and young Vance Astrovik.

This current incarnation of the New Warriors only had two original members and a highly unpopular replacement for one of the original members and when you couple this with new characters who lacked proper characterization, that was a recipe for a very shortlived book.

I stayed with the book for as long as I could but just couldn't get into it at all.

So in closing, I'm not sure what you're quoting me for or why you're coming off with unwarranted beligerence, but if you can't keep your commentary civil just miss me with the attitude and keep it moving.

[THANOSRULES]

Marvel should really re evaluate there stance on Night Thrasher...I dont know if a he has legion 40k fans out there ...but he does have a following..and some of these folks , out of fruistration would not support a NW book simply due to his absence.

When Quesada took over as EiC A live Action Night Thrasher TV show was in pretty advanced state..He had a decent spin off series from NW which led to an ongoing. It seems through the years Quesada and others simply think the character is dumb...but they probably just never read him.

He has a good look (s) He has a great list of supporting characters that can work as both gritty street level ninja stuff, and a bit more fantastic or mystical as well. (Wellspring, Folding Circle,Smiling Tiger Midnights Fire, SIl Bengal, Chord, Tai)

Yeah I know he had some strong similarities to Batman and he was sometimes the "Angry Black guy" stereotype...but a lot about him was really cool.

I know Kevin Grievioux was a big fan of Dwayne and wanted to use him, but editors mandated otherwise. Even DOnyell had a good motivation for a character...I liked what KG did for him. Gage alos did some nice stuff with him. Then the bottom fell out and he just disappeared again.

His status as a minority was a strength, not a weakness.

Night Thrasher I or II should be brought back...and he should be part of the New Warriors...

[Darthfury78]

Too bad the series didn't have the chance to get to it full potential..

[THANOSRULES]

Yeah except that they did none of that in this case, so you bringing it up is both ridiculous and meaningless. Hyperbole at it's finest.

More than a few readers have expressed their displeasure with the new Nova character as you obviouly know yourself and most of us are familiar with the back and forth snarkfests that characterized dicussions on Sam Alexander with a certain Marvel editor repeatedly going out of his way to belittle readers who wanted to know what the deal with Richard Rider's fate was.

The original Nova was part and parcel of the original New Warriors ensemble alongside Night Thrasher, (who actually formed the group) Namorita, Speedball and young Vance Astrovik.

This current incarnation of the New Warriors only had two original members and a highly unpopular replacement for one of the original members and when you couple this with new characters who lacked proper characterization, that was a recipe for a very shortlived book.

I stayed with the book for as long as I could but just couldn't get into it at all.

So in closing, I'm not sure what you're quoting me for or why you're coming off with unwarranted beligerence, but if you can't keep your commentary civil just miss me with the attitude and keep it moving.

Sam Alexander is controversial, his presence may scare off some fans from supporting the title...right or wrong this an absolute fact and relevant to the question of the discussion of why this series did not work.

[THANOSRULES]

Double shipping X-Men and Avengers titles at 3.99 is what went wrong with the New Warriors and everyone of Marvels lower tier characters. Marvel has created an environment were these books can no longer survive, it also makes me angrier over the fact that Marvel refuses to make a Big Hero 6 book, they could make these diverse characters A-Listers and there book number one over night, just like with Guardians but they refuse! I would kill for something like that to happen to the New Warriors. Spinning out of InHumanity and New Nova didn't help either.

I always forget about this..but yeah it is so true, these double ships have made it much tougher for fringe books to make it. I personally do not support many double shipping books regularly..I'll buy spidey now and then..thats the only book IMO that should double ship because it had such a long history of doing so.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

No Dwayne Taylor, Namorita or Richard Rider = zero interest from me so hasta lavista to another failed experiment on Marvel's part.

I have no problem with new characters being introduced but Marvel have this bad habit of rubbishing the concerns of dedicated fans of older characters whilst labeling said fans as malcontents and then wonder why the new characters they feel are so much "cooler" fail to gain traction.

Okay I don't know what the Controversy on Nova is so I need someone too explain that too me. But the guy was barely in the thing.

YOST SHOULD NT HV ALIEN8D FANS OF NYT THRASHER/DWAYNE TURNER

NW is & shd b Marvel perfect answer 2 DC’s TT.

We/SZ askd, prayed, beggd & pleaded 4 NT(Dwayne….or even his bro in sum capacity) 2 b in dis recent run of NW & it was very VERY painful 2 deliber8ly choose 2 avoid dis title bcuz we/SZ r md fans of Yost…. but gatdammit… y….y did Yost choose 2 alien8 us/SZ/NT fans?

Y?

Now NW is cancelled & we/NW fans will all hv 2 endure anothr very looong drought without d NW shwing-up anywhr.

Der’s no TT without ROBIN…No core adjectiveless Avngrs without Cap & most certainy cannot entertain any NW without NT.

We/SZ sooo desper8ly wantd 2 supprt dis title bcuz we/SZ hv waitd so long 4 it…but we/SZ totally CAN NOT accept any NW without NT/Dwayne. PERIOD!

Dude Leet speak doesn't translate well on a forum. I honestly can't tell what you said.

[Mr MajestiK]

Marvel should really re evaluate there stance on Night Thrasher...I dont know if a he has legion 40k fans out there ...but he does have a following..and some of these folks , out of fruistration would not support a NW book simply due to his absence.

When Quesada took over as EiC A live Action Night Thrasher TV show was in pretty advanced state..He had a decent spin off series from NW which led to an ongoing. It seems through the years Quesada and others simply think the character is dumb...but they probably just never read him.

He has a good look (s) He has a great list of supporting characters that can work as both gritty street level ninja stuff, and a bit more fantastic or mystical as well. (Wellspring, Folding Circle,Smiling Tiger Midnights Fire, SIl Bengal, Chord, Tai)

Yeah I know he had some strong similarities to Batman and he was sometimes the "Angry Black guy" stereotype...but a lot about him was really cool.

I know Kevin Grievioux was a big fan of Dwayne and wanted to use him, but editors mandated otherwise. Even DOnyell had a good motivation for a character...I liked what KG did for him. Gage alos did some nice stuff with him. Then the bottom fell out and he just disappeared again.

His status as a minority was a strength, not a weakness.

Night Thrasher I or II should be brought back...and he should be part of the New Warriors...

Agreed 100%.

As I said previously, there's nothing wrong with new characters being introduced but when readers ask after older characters, they shouldn't be ridiculed for poing legitimate questions.

It's like with Kamala Khan and the new Ghost Rider, they're both new characters wearing names that are part of Mavel Comics reach backstory but where they differ from the new Nova is that their predecssors weren't "limbo'd" or "fridged" to make "room" for a newbie to shine.

Marvel's whole approach with this newest take on the New Warriors was severely flawed right from jump and this has ultimately led to the books cancellation.

It's unfortunate but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Peace.

[pageturner]

I think that it comes down to several things:

1. It's really hard for "lesser-known" books to really catch on these days unless they have a really interesting/unique pitch (and even then it doesn't always pan out). New Warriors is a well-written, fun, and genuinely good book, but also one that's somewhat conventional and "old-school." I'm not even saying that that's a BAD thing, just that it could have turned some people off of buying the book.

2. The marketing/promotion of the book wasn't great.

3. The niche that the NW once filled isn't so much of a niche anymore. The "younger heroes teaming up" idea is something that quite a few books do these days. So unless you have a really interesting/unique take on it, it's easy to get lost in the shuffle.

I agree with point 1 but can you expound on point 2? What do you mean by marketing and promotion? I don't come across much for any books so I am curious what people are seeing or think is missing in this area?