Flash and Wonderwoman should easily beat Batman.

[The True Detective]

On the contrary You don't get it. There is nothing wrong in discussing, what you miss is that people who bring up Batman might not be animated by hate, but pointing out that certain issues don't make sense. You made the example of comparing batman with Harley and Joker. Sorry to say its a ridiculous comparison, because if Bruce does what they do, even people who might not like batman will be displeased and angry.
I never read people complaining that Batman is a member of JL, they might complain that he is too prominent, and let's be fair at times they might be right. But comparing that to the fact that they complain that a sexual harasser as Harley is on JL is absurd.

Most of it is because of hate or bias or there wouldn't be such a big gap between threads like this for him vs everyone else. I never said you can't point out when certain things he does make no sense but it's gotten to the point where every thread about him is negative.

"Why doesn't he quit being Batman and donate all his time, money and resources into helping people?" No similar threads for other rich heroes like Green Arrow, Iron Man, Black Panther, etc.

"He does things no other human can do" true, so does every other peak human. If I'm supposed to believe the 5,000 topics like this that are started aren't coming from a place of bias, where are the similar threads for the Batfamily, Arrow family, and every other prominent humans?

So, by all means call out all of the things that make no sense about Batman, but if those things bother you so much call out the other characters who do them too.

[Goldrake]

Most of it is because of hate or bias or there wouldn't be such a big gap between threads like this for him vs everyone else. I never said you can't point out when certain things he does make no sense but it's gotten to the point where every thread about him is negative.

"Why doesn't he quit being Batman and donate all his time, money and resources into helping people?" No similar threads for other rich heroes like Green Arrow, Iron Man, Black Panther, etc.

"He does things no other human can do" true, so does every other peak human. If I'm supposed to believe the 5,000 topics like this that are started aren't coming from a place of bias, where are the similar threads for the Batfamily, Arrow family, and every other prominent humans?

So, by all means call out all of the things that make no sense about Batman, but if those things bother you so much call out the other characters who do them too.

I just took a look at the the last 5 pages on this forum, there only 2 threads about Batman, definitely not the many you claim. That people don't complain about other characters it is not true. In various threads you find people complaining or discussing what they don't like, about a particular arc or take that they don't like. Just because the title of the thread does not single out a particular issue it does not mean there aren't fans who have issues even with their own favorite characters.
Again that people bring up Batman are not animated by hate, they just could be pointing out something they don't like or for them makes no sense. This thread singles out batman, true, but I find nothing offensive in that. They aren't saying something dismissive or denigrating the character. That it should apply to other human villains and heroes, I agree. But by no means we can't discuss batman because he is a sacred cow.

That it all comes down to hate I don't agree. You made the comparison of Batman hated as HQ and I replied that there ain't no such comparisons and the reasons people don't like her can't even be compared to anything bat related. You didn't reply to that!
Being popular is not the sole reason for generating envy. But if you want others just to praise Batman at all times, I give up.

[The True Detective]

I just took a look at the the last 5 pages on this forum, there only 2 threads about Batman, definitely not the many you claim. That people don't complain about other characters it is not true. In various threads you find people complaining or discussing what they don't like, about a particular arc or take that they don't like. Just because the title of the thread does not single out a particular issue it does not mean there aren't fans who have issues even with their own favorite characters.
Again that people bring up Batman are not animated by hate, they just could be pointing out something they don't like or for them makes no sense. This thread singles out batman, true, but I find nothing offensive in that. They aren't saying something dismissive or denigrating the character. That it should apply to other human villains and heroes, I agree. But by no means we can't discuss batman because he is a sacred cow.

That it all comes down to hate I don't agree. You made the comparison of Batman hated as HQ and I replied that there ain't no such comparisons and the reasons people don't like her can't even be compared to anything bat related. You didn't reply to that!
Being popular is not the sole reason for generating envy. But if you want others just to praise Batman at all times, I give up.

2 threads in the last 2 days, where are the the threads like this for other characters? Trust me, there are more "Why does Batman (insert criticism)" a lot more than similar threads for anyone else. And please stop overdramatically saying I want everyone to praise him, do you want everyone to be critical of him? No, you don't and I don't want everyone to kiss his ass all of the time but there can be a middle ground. It can't be so predictable that I every time I see his name in a thread title I know it will be negative.

I didn't address your Harley point (btw you ignored how I mentioned Joker first) because you're ignoring that not everyone hates her for the reasons you state. There's clearly jealously on the part of fans of other characters because she gets more cartoons, comics, etc. You're aware human beings experience emotions like hate and petty jealousy, correct? Do you think robots post here? As humans there are bound to be people who resent Batman and Harley for the push they get that their favorites don't.

[Goldrake]

2 threads in the last 2 days, where are the the threads like this for other characters? Trust me, there are more "Why does Batman (insert criticism)" a lot more than similar threads for anyone else. And please stop overdramatically saying I want everyone to praise him, do you want everyone to be critical of him? No, you don't and I don't want everyone to kiss his ass all of the time but there can be a middle ground. It can't be so predictable that I every time I see his name in a thread title I know it will be negative.

I didn't address your Harley point (btw you ignored how I mentioned Joker first) because you're ignoring that not everyone hates her for the reasons you state. There's clearly jealously on the part of fans of other characters because she gets more cartoons, comics, etc. You're aware human beings experience emotions like hate and petty jealousy, correct? Do you think robots post here? As humans there are bound to be people who resent Batman and Harley for the push they get that their favorites don't.

Something that unites fans of all characters including many batfans, is dislike of Harley, not because she gets cartoons etc but because she is being forced on fans to hang with heroes when she is a sick character. If batman or any other character would do any of her antics rest assured that the response would be the same. You mix reason with jealousy. You keep repeating that fans are motivated by envy, some are for sure motivated by that, but others through disgust. Two amoral characters as Joker and Harley don't generate envy but contempt.

As for threads, what do you expect? Bat gets more exposure, so its only natural that he keeps taking attention, What did you expect people complaining about Green Arrow who has no book, who ain't pushed anywhere? The only reason his fans have to complain about is that they can't even complain of how he is in a particular run because they don't have a book. Neither fans of other characters can say anything about GA for the reasons mentioned above. If you enter threads about Flash or GL you can see how tribal they are between them.

Sorry to say you seem to suffer a persecution mania in regards to batman. This thread is about who can defeat him, you could have replied yeah maybe this or that can, but with that character he has a chance or with the other he can win. What's wrong with that? It would have added to the discussion.
CBR is constantly pitching characters against others on their site, making comparisons who is stronger, who would win in a fight etc. sometimes I must say with very idiotic justifications or reasons.

[Jabare]

The Flash is connected to the Speed Force every since it was introduced so the Batman could find a way to cut him out from it. And I think it has been done before. Wonder Woman's downfall is her love and compassion. I would argue that Superman would eventually beat Batman because his most powerful attribute is that he's humble unlike Batman.

Recent history shows Batman beats Superman more often than not.

Saying Batman beats Flash because he uses the Speed Force and Batman would just find a way to neutralize it is the combination of blind faith support and contrived writing

They don’t have weaknesses that he can exploit like kryptonite or having your alter ego being a child, or having all your powers come from an object you wear. Every time the writer have Batman beat one of these characters it feels contrived. At least with Superman we have established history of a regular human taking him out with kyptonite(Lex Luther).

Nothing makes me more depressed than the transformation of Shazam into this immature Man-Child. Everyone forgets about the wisdom of Solomon which in essence imbues him with the knowledge and experience of ages, which turns him into an adult. This is why Captain Marvel cough cough Shazam is in essence a different being than Billy. But no one cares about that. He's just an adolescent with Superman-like powers because it's simpler for readers to understand. Hooray.

Batman has toolset lets punch outside of his weight class but some fans run crazy with it. Let's be honest you give Mr. Terrific,Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, Tony Stark, Black Panther, Dr Doom etc , "Prep Time" they are also going to punch outside of their weight class. The difference fans love to give Batman the benefit of the doubt that he will win when everyone else gets treated as if they will lose times which what should happen to Batman as well.

Let's be honest I called a bunch of names above if all of them got 2 months of prep time for a battle, Batman is the last person you would be worried about in that fight.

eh, I don't know if I'd take Ironman. Beyond his ridiculous engineering feats, he's got a lot of dumb smart guy moments the other characters don't possess.

Everyone in the Justice League could easily beat Batman

Green Arrow, Vibe, Gypsy, Mister Miracle, Huntress and Ted Kord are not easily beating Batman

[Alpha]

What's appealing about Shazam with an adult brain?

[The True Detective]

Something that unites fans of all characters including many batfans, is dislike of Harley, not because she gets cartoons etc but because she is being forced on fans to hang with heroes when she is a sick character. If batman or any other character would do any of her antics rest assured that the response would be the same. You mix reason with jealousy. You keep repeating that fans are motivated by envy, some are for sure motivated by that, but others through disgust. Two amoral characters as Joker and Harley don't generate envy but contempt.

As for threads, what do you expect? Bat gets more exposure, so its only natural that he keeps taking attention, What did you expect people complaining about Green Arrow who has no book, who ain't pushed anywhere? The only reason his fans have to complain about is that they can't even complain of how he is in a particular run because they don't have a book. Neither fans of other characters can say anything about GA for the reasons mentioned above. If you enter threads about Flash or GL you can see how tribal they are between them.

Sorry to say you seem to suffer a persecution mania in regards to batman. This thread is about who can defeat him, you could have replied yeah maybe this or that can, but with that character he has a chance or with the other he can win. What's wrong with that? It would have added to the discussion.
CBR is constantly pitching characters against others on their site, making comparisons who is stronger, who would win in a fight etc. sometimes I must say with very idiotic justifications or reasons.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, not conscending one bit, much appreciated. Here's a nickel for your trouble.

You talk about Green Arrow not having a book, Iron Man does, Black Panther does, Lex Luthor's in books. Green Arrow had a show that was on for almost a decade, more people watched that than have ever read a Batman comic. Still no threads asking why Oliver doesn't abandon his vigilante career to put all his focus on fighting crime at the root. Bruce gets that question a lot.

This isn't a comparison thread this is just another pointless thread bringing up something that's brought up on a daily basis. It's beating a dead horse. Most of the replies are agreeing with the OP, most posters would agree so there's guaranteed to be an echo chamber where 90% of the responses are "yeah, Batman can't beat anyone on the JL!" It's boring and repetitive.

Imagine if I made a thread asking why Superman wears a cape and that capes are stupid. The fact that he isn't the only one who wears a cape would be rightfully brought up. So, if I specifically singled out Superman wearing a cape as stupid and said nothing about anyone else who wore one, would you not take that as me just having a personal dislike of him and just shitting on him because of it?

It doesn't matter, you see me as some sort of unhinged lunatic who bursts into tears the moment Bruce is dissed so I'm not wasting any more time on you.

[sifighter]

What's appealing about Shazam with an adult brain?

Ongoing narrative? Much richer character to tap into if he’s been a hero a longer time? Friendships and Relationships? Though my assumption is he started out at around 8 or 10 and is currently 16 or so.

[Alpha]

That's not what we were talking about. He was talking about the Wisdom of Solomon giving Billy the brain of an adult when his body transforms him into Captain Marvel/ Shazam, which doesn't sound appealing to me.

I'm all for Billy Batson growing up and now being 18 or even 20. This is very different from turning him into another person when he transforms.

[sifighter]

That's not what we were talking about. He was talking about the Wisdom of Solomon giving Billy the brain of an adult when his body transforms him into Captain Marvel/ Shazam, which doesn't sound appealing to me.

I'm all for Billy Batson growing up and now being 18 or even 20. This is very different from turning him into another person when he transforms.

Oh my mistake then, 100% agree with you then he shouldn’t just become another person when he transforms. He should have Billy’s brain with him able to draw on outside forces

[Alpha]

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, not conscending one bit, much appreciated. Here's a nickel for your trouble.

You talk about Green Arrow not having a book, Iron Man does, Black Panther does, Lex Luthor's in books. Green Arrow had a show that was on for almost a decade, more people watched that than have ever read a Batman comic. Still no threads asking why Oliver doesn't abandon his vigilante career to put all his focus on fighting crime at the root. Bruce gets that question a lot.

Green Arrow doesn't have a new Batmobile every month nor does he spend a fortune in expensive high tech suits full of gadgets and robot armors and specialized jets, and tanks, and Satelities, etc. Green Arrow is much more down to earth. And Oliver isn't normally written as a guy with a grand plan to fix his society. He tries to improve society, but he isn't this master strategist with a para military campaign on crime. He is like Daredevil except he also has a fortune that he tries to use well from time to time.

And I think Oliver Queen has been shown as an hypocrite many times, whereas the amount of respect and "knowledge of human nature" that Bruce Wayne seems to have in his world keeps being hyped up at a level where his whole strategy for "ending crime" just becomes more absurd, considering how little he does to fix institutional problems. Charities don't do anything for institutional problems.

Lex Luthor is an egotistical villain. Nobody expects him to use his fortune in ways that would actually have a significant positive impact on society. Tony Stark is also portrayed as someone that can be heroic but rarely cares about institutional problems. He isn't trying to end poverty or crime in the U.S.A. And despite that, many writers have in fact told stories about Tony Stark using his company in innovative ways to improve society. Heck, that's what Dan Slott's whole run on Iron Man was about, Tony trying to improve the world through his company. So while Tony Stark spends trillions on his armors, he also creates incredible initiatives to allow people to use his inventions in remarkeable ways.

As far as Black Panther, the dude is the king of a whole country. And I'm pretty sure that the Ta Nehisi Coates run was about him confronting institutional problems in his kingdom.

[Jabare]

That's not what we were talking about. He was talking about the Wisdom of Solomon giving Billy the brain of an adult when his body transforms him into Captain Marvel/ Shazam, which doesn't sound appealing to me.

I'm all for Billy Batson growing up and now being 18 or even 20. This is very different from turning him into another person when he transforms.

Billy growing up or not has nothing to do with this. This about canon, how Captain Marvel was fundamentally designed, and the ethos behind his powers.

Going back to how Captain Marvel was originally written (early incarnation, heck even some version at DC) each power had a significance. He didn't just get all those abilities because they sounded cool, but people tend to forget this.

There are many other adolescent and teenage superheroes. If not for the wisdom to help inform him and safeguard his actions with his newfound power and responsibility, why age him up at all then, just give him the strength and speed. He's aged up because his transformation is more than just a power-up it's a transformation of mind and body. Billy being a pure-hearted child is not the only thing that makes Shazam tick. End of the day Billy Batson is 12 years old and making him the strongest mortal charged with safeguarding the world is a lot to ask of a 12-year-old. The Wizard isn't stupid, which is why he imbued Billy with the wisdom of Solomon, buffering him with the knowledge of King Solomon's past successes and failures to guide him and influence him with his tremendous powers.

Captain Marvel is still Billy at heart but he has those added experiences that added wisdom to go along with his powers. Ignoring this is overlooking a key aspect of Captain Marvel that has been present since his inception. Certainly, before DC adopted him and he became the red-headed stepchild to Superman.

Many fans have forgotten or are simply unaware of this.

[Vakanai]

Shazam growing up would be stupid. He's a kid who turns into an adult with a magic word, him growing up ruins the fantasy.

[Vakanai]

Green Arrow doesn't have a new Batmobile every month nor does he spend a fortune in expensive high tech suits full of gadgets and robot armors and specialized jets, and tanks, and Satelities, etc. Green Arrow is much more down to earth. And Oliver isn't normally written as a guy with a grand plan to fix his society. He tries to improve society, but he isn't this master strategist with a para military campaign on crime. He is like Daredevil except he also has a fortune that he tries to use well from time to time.

And I think Oliver Queen has been shown as an hypocrite many times, whereas the amount of respect and "knowledge of human nature" that Bruce Wayne seems to have in his world keeps being hyped up at a level where his whole strategy for "ending crime" just becomes more absurd, considering how little he does to fix institutional problems. Charities don't do anything for institutional problems.

Lex Luthor is an egotistical villain. Nobody expects him to use his fortune in ways that would actually have a significant positive impact on society. Tony Stark is also portrayed as someone that can be heroic but rarely cares about institutional problems. He isn't trying to end poverty or crime in the U.S.A. And despite that, many writers have in fact told stories about Tony Stark using his company in innovative ways to improve society. Heck, that's what Dan Slott's whole run on Iron Man was about, Tony trying to improve the world through his company. So while Tony Stark spends trillions on his armors, he also creates incredible initiatives to allow people to use his inventions in remarkeable ways.

As far as Black Panther, the dude is the king of a whole country. And I'm pretty sure that the Ta Nehisi Coates run was about him confronting institutional problems in his kingdom.

I think we'd get more of GA spending his wealth on crazy things if he were as popular as Batman with as many titles. But he kind of runs under the radar some so can kind of stay more "grounded" easier I feel.

[Gitagon]

What's appealing about Shazam with an adult brain?

He does not have an adult brain. However, the wisdom of Solomon grants him much more wisdom than any random adult out there.