What do you want out of a Fantastic Four movie franchise?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The right actor to cast as Doom was Edward Norton around mid-2000s.

In either case, his performance as King Baldwin of Jerusalem is absolutely the model for how Doom can be done in live-action



Also this other cool clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5wZSnNELEI&t=2s

[Ascended]

I think one of the things about the movies is that you don't need to be big fans of the characters in the comics...just a decent knowledge of who they are and that the movie stays as true to the characters as possible.

That's my thought as well.

I'd rather he didn't ....it can be overdone IMO.

And he is not of royal lineage.....Stan and Jack established that early on in Fantastic Four annual #2. His humble beginnings are the very heart of the character and his animus towards of Reed.

Oh the third person speaking can totally be overdone, but there's a happy middle ground between "none at all" and "too much." I don't think it's entirely Doom if there's *no* third person speak, but I also don't want every sentence out of his mouth to include it either.

And I totally forgot about Doom's origins for a second, thanks for correcting me! Like I said, I'm not the biggest FF fan out there and while I adore Doom, I often forget the details.

Technically few of the MCU qualify as superhero movies in that definition.

If there's a villain and a big cgi fight in the third Act, then it's superheroes. The films you're mentioning toy with subgenres but are still firmly rooted in the standard trappings of the superhero convention, I'm suggesting going all-in. I dunno if it would work, I'm just spitballing, but I don't think a FF movie *needs* a big bad for them to punch. I think they could get away with something like them being trapped in the Negative Zone where they have to fight off some bugs but the main conflict is built around them escaping the Zone, not defeating Annihulus...Anniulhus.....crap, however you spell his name!

The FF have always fought villains and they have a great rogues gallery. They have a bench of excellent iconic bad guys.

They really do, and I'd love to see them. I just don't think the first film necessarily *needs* one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FF are adventures first and villain fighters second, correct? Even if they end up fighting bad guys all the time, that's not their real purpose. But for guys like Tony, Steve, etc., they're not trying to adventure and learn new things so much as they're trying to save lives and stop criminals. The comics end up looking the same, since you need that requisite action sequence and "adventure" plots are harder to write than "hero punch bad guy hard!" but spiritually, the FF seem closer to pulp adventurers than crime fighters to me.

No. That kind of approach drove Josh Trank and it sunk the film.

Never saw the movie but my understanding is that bad film making and a lack of understanding of the characters sunk that film.

If you are doing a movie centered on the early part of the 4's adventures then Ben Grimm has to be the emotional center and anchor of the film since the origins and driving part of their adventures is Reed's actions which Ben Grimm has to pay for and suffer for the rest of his life.

Ben is absolutely the emotional center of the FF. Him or Sue, anyway. I think in modern tales, Sue seems to be the emotional heart of the family but from what I've seen Ben was absolutely that in the early days. Again, not a huge FF fan so I could be wrong but that's how it seems to me. But a film should give equal focus on all four of them; like I said, if they don't stand on their own as individuals then nobody will care about the family drama.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

They really do, and I'd love to see them. I just don't think the first film necessarily *needs* one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FF are adventures first and villain fighters second, correct? Even if they end up fighting bad guys all the time, that's not their real purpose. But for guys like Tony, Steve, etc., they're not trying to adventure and learn new things so much as they're trying to save lives and stop criminals.

In the MCU, Iron Man told Peter Parker that Vulture was "below his pay grade" so not really a case that Tony's about solving crime, lol!

Tony believes in super-science and ego, and he believes in solving big problems (while underestimating and miscalculating the nature of problems around him). So for him when Thanos arrived, that meant all the regular criminals were of no concern for him anymore.

The comics end up looking the same, since you need that requisite action sequence and "adventure" plots are harder to write than "hero punch bad guy hard!" but spiritually, the FF seem closer to pulp adventurers than crime fighters to me.

See it's not that I disagree. I would say that I agree it's just that I don't see that as a big problem or hurdle or all that dissimilar to other stuff that MCU do.

Never saw the movie but my understanding is that bad film making and a lack of understanding of the characters sunk that film.

Josh Trank isn't without talent. He came to the movie with no knowledge or familiarity with the source material but he had an idea to make it "Cronenbergian" and into a kind of science-fiction thinkpiece with body horror...in other words, not far from "Twilight Zone" as you seemed to suggest. So to me you have to approach the FF as its own thing and start with the comics, and not pair it with other genres or dilute it with references like Star Trek, Lost in Space, Twilight Zone, or The Incredibles. These shows for the most part are stuff that came out at the same time as the FF did (Star Trek is a contemporary to FF), or it came after and under its influence (The Incredibles).

Ben is absolutely the emotional center of the FF. Him or Sue, anyway. I think in modern tales, Sue seems to be the emotional heart of the family but from what I've seen Ben was absolutely that in the early days. Again, not a huge FF fan so I could be wrong but that's how it seems to me.

Exactly. Different writers locate the emotional center in various places -- for Kirby, it was Ben Grimm, for Hickman, it's the children of Reed and Sue -- Franklin and Valeria (Valeria more than Franklin). For Byrne it was Johnny Storm and Susan Storm, mostly Susan in the latter part of the run. Different movies need to find a way to shift focus. In some cases, the focus can shift to Alicia, or Dr. Doom himself.

[GenericUsername]

You mean them not being Romani? That’s an interesting point. At the same time I don’t think it would be entirely on the same level. Magneto for instance has been portrayed by two gentile actors before and Jewish Xmen fans have embraced that.

Romani groups have not embraced whitewashing of Romani characters. I am part Romani and hope that at least one Romani actor gets to play a character who is Romani from the books. And that the writing of said character(s) has Romani involved to avoid certain stereotypes. Representation isn't even there, let alone good for Romani to overall be ok with it.

[Dr. No Good]

For a tv show we get Marvel Team Up.

In this show we get Ben Grimm teaming up with Hawk Eye for a few episodes, then we get him teaming up with say Ant-Man or The Wasp or Shang-Chi trying to find one of the cube shards, While fighting of the likes of Shockwave, Midnight Sun and Black Ant. At the end of the series Grimm gets the shard and takes back to the four. As a mid-credits scene we see a spy make a call to Latveria telling someone that it he has found another Shard and that others are trying to find it.

For a second TV Show we have one for Reed and Sue on a Holiday we see them get along and see their relationship develop a bit of course that we get a fight for one of the Cube Shards for the fight we get the Wizard who wants the Cube for himself but losses thanks to a man with a mask taking the shard. Yes it is Doom not in his armour mid-credits scene we see the armour.

[Ascended]

See it's not that I disagree. I would say that I agree it's just that I don't see that as a big problem or hurdle or all that dissimilar to other stuff that MCU do.

Eh, I think you may be giving the subgenres some of the films play with too much credit. Like, sure, Ant-Man is a heist film....except in the end it's still a big cgi battle against a evil dude in a costume with powers. Winter Soldier is a political thriller.....with a big cgi battle against a evil dude in a costume with powers. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate that the films stretch out a little and dip a toe into these other genres, but dipping a toe is generally all they do. Has there been a single MCU production that didn't have a big bad? Even Wandavision had Agatha, and that's as close to "not having a villain" as I can recall in the MCU right now.

Josh Trank isn't without talent. He came to the movie with no knowledge or familiarity with the source material but he had an idea to make it "Cronenbergian" and into a kind of science-fiction thinkpiece with body horror...in other words, not far from "Twilight Zone" as you seemed to suggest.

Trank definitely has talent, I really loved Chronicle. But from what I hear (and you seem to have heard the same), he had an idea for the kind of movie he wanted to make and he bent the FF around that concept, rather than making a moving about the FF. It'd be like if I decided to make a FF film right now, with my limited knowledge of the franchise, and didn't do any real research and already knew what kind of movie I was gonna churn out. Seems like Trank put the cart before the horse, as the old saying goes. Perhaps if he had done more research and made a film that was true to the characters, it would've gone over better. The FF are supposed to be the high-concept IP at Marvel, I don't think comparisons to stuff like the Twilight Zone is out of bounds, but that doesn't mean the IP's are interchangeable. A weird, kooky FF film that takes a bit of inspiration from those other films is one thing, making one of those other films and slapping the FF's name on the title is another.

In some cases, the focus can shift to Alicia, or Dr. Doom himself.

I'd be far more excited for a Doom film than a FF one, honestly. At this point I'll watch anything Marvel makes whether I care about the IP or not, and I'll watch FF when it hits (maybe in theaters, maybe not until blu-ray, depending on trailers) but Doom? I'd see that opening weekend.

[Brian B]

What I want out of an FF movie? Kirby! Massive Kirby! The more Kirby, the better. Kirby dots! Big machines! Energy! Cosmos! Space! Space gods! The works! Give me Kirby. In a movie. That’s what I want from an FF movie.

[Killerbee911]

Trank definitely has talent, I really loved Chronicle. But from what I hear (and you seem to have heard the same), he had an idea for the kind of movie he wanted to make and he bent the FF around that concept, rather than making a moving about the FF. It'd be like if I decided to make a FF film right now, with my limited knowledge of the franchise, and didn't do any real research and already knew what kind of movie I was gonna churn out. Seems like Trank put the cart before the horse, as the old saying goes. Perhaps if he had done more research and made a film that was true to the characters, it would've gone over better. The FF are supposed to be the high-concept IP at Marvel, I don't think comparisons to stuff like the Twilight Zone is out of bounds, but that doesn't mean the IP's are interchangeable. A weird, kooky FF film that takes a bit of inspiration from those other films is one thing, making one of those other films and slapping the FF's name on the title is another.

Fan4tastic was good movie imo until it had to be a actual FF movie so about at 53:37 if you turn off it, You would keep a general positive view of the movie. It had a Killer concept about how the FF origin should have been done and actually executed it well but after okay they get their powers from dimensional travel accident and it has body horror angle They had no freaking clue what do and last 45 mins so brutal butchers the concept that I think people forget how good the first 53 mins. The couple of times I have rewatch the movie it is like this isn't so bad why do people hate this again, The I reach the last 40 mins of the movie, Okay we have to be Fantastic Four superhero movie now and it is just so badly done. And they screw up Dr Doom again like Dr. Doom is simple why do people think they have to fix his origin. But I understand how the film got greenlight because interdimensional sci fi horror take on the origin story really worked but they forgot they had make a successful superhero movie after that.

As for the topic I want to jokingly say a live action Incredibles is what I want out FF movie but not joking Incredibles hit on some stuff that work about the ff franchise, If someone had a good hook put them in the present without a bunch of questions I would want FF to start in 70s kinda like X-men first class , I think FF origin story fits better in the past and I like FF as little more elder stateman among superheroes in they are in present timeline and that would be away of putting the children in the present as well.

[Iron Maiden]

I wouldn't want Marvel's Fantastic Four to emulate the Incredibles at all. I want some serious sci fi and interdimensional travel like the Negative Zone and the Microverse. I think a really well done Annihilus would be a good start. Treat the concept seriously and then the humor can be worked in eventually.

[JudicatorPrime]

While we wait...

[John Venus]

You mean them not being Romani? That’s an interesting point. At the same time I don’t think it would be entirely on the same level. Magneto for instance has been portrayed by two gentile actors before and Jewish Xmen fans have embraced that.

It will come down to how well the movie would do in Europe since anti-Romani sentiment is still huge there, last I read. I suspect that is the reason why Wanda and Pietro were whitewashed for the MCU.

Assuming Marvel does a Dr Doom movie adaptation of Triumph and Torment; will European audiences embrace a protagonist who is Romani, played by a Romani actor and his Romani heritage figures prominently into his backstory? Never mind the fact that it could stoke xenophobic fears because his whole backstory involves him becoming powerful enough to take over the country which marginalized him in the first place.

If a Dr Doom movie is too risky I wouldn't mind a Disney + show adapting 'Triumph and Torment' with Dr Strange.

[Oberon]

While we wait...

I loved these cartoons as a kid.

[Chris0013]

Here's a crazy idea:

A Doom solo movie. From young Romani boy experiencing the death of his mother to fleeing with his father, to his time at State U and the accident, then his armor and eventually his rise to ruling Latveria. Obviously, being a Marvel movie, Easter Eggs would be numerous. Some connection to the Ancient One as well as stark equipment and Cap's dealings in Europe all can get mentions. Now Doom's accident is the result of a mistake in a calculation in creating a device so he can retrieve his mother's soul. The student who points out Doom's mistake doesn't even need to be mentioned. But once Doom sits upon the throne and credits roll, we see the Marvel post-credit scene where Doom is looking towards a screen. On the desk in front of him is a piece of metal with a "4" logo.

Sure there will be claims of copying Joker. but the material and themes are totally different. Plus I'd expect the PCS to get loads of press.

I would put that between my 1 and 2

Movie 1: Mole Man and Subterranea
Solo movie: DOOM!!!
Movie 2: Negative Zone with Annihilus and Blastaar
Movie 3: Doom. While not prominent in movies 1 and 2 his presence would be felt by the viewers.

[GenericUsername]

It will come down to how well the movie would do in Europe since anti-Romani sentiment is still huge there, last I read. I suspect that is the reason why Wanda and Pietro were whitewashed for the MCU.

Assuming Marvel does a Dr Doom movie adaptation of Triumph and Torment; will European audiences embrace a protagonist who is Romani, played by a Romani actor and his Romani heritage figures prominently into his backstory? Never mind the fact that it could stoke xenophobic fears because his whole backstory involves him becoming powerful enough to take over the country which marginalized him in the first place.

If a Dr Doom movie is too risky I wouldn't mind a Disney + show adapting 'Triumph and Torment' with Dr Strange.

I don't think that's why. The movie would not be barred based on that and there has been no issues with the comics versions.

It's most likely a severe misunderstanding of who Romani people are. There's a lot of confusion over differences between Romani and Irish and Scottish travellers for instance.

Any writing of Doom can be done more carefully if Romani writers are involved. They shouldn't care at all about bigots. The reason most of those misconceptions exist is because of tall tales that popular media have fed into anyway.

[JudicatorPrime]

I loved these cartoons as a kid.

Same here. This and the old Filmation cartoons like Freedom Force/Space Sentinels were my favorites.

Someone suggested an Incredibles-type FF movie. The more I think about it, the more I like that idea. Maybe a straight to streaming/DVD-Blu Ray release with an actual live action movie to follow a year or so later.