What do you want out of a Fantastic Four movie franchise?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The FF aren't super heroes, right? They're super scientists, super adventurers. They're not supposed to be beating up criminals, they're supposed to be exploring the deepest corners of reality, expanding humanity's knowledge.

Technically few of the MCU qualify as superhero movies in that definition.
-- Iron Man is a billionaire corporate philanthropist whose movies are essentially dressed up workplace dramas
-- Guardians of the Galaxy are mercenaries who kill and do stuff for money.
-- Thor is an actual god from a mythology and his stories are about Asgardian melodrama and hijinks.
-- Ant-Man is mostly classic 50s science-fiction shrinking movie jokes.
-- Dr. Strange is fantasy.

Only Captain America and Spider-Man qualify as superhero movies, so I think the MCU wouldn't have trouble distinguishing FF from normal superhero genres.

To be honest having the FF be normal superheroes would be a little refreshing. The MCU have done so many weird turns (WandaVision for instance) that something more conventional would be refreshing.

I don't know if the first film even needs a "villain" in the classic sense, just some major obstacle they need to overcome; returning home from some exotic location, or trying to stop some kind of big sci-fi natural disaster or something.

The FF have always fought villains and they have a great rogues gallery. They have a bench of excellent iconic bad guys.

it should take inspiration from stuff like Lost in Space and Twilight Zone more than the Avengers or JLA.

No. That kind of approach drove Josh Trank and it sunk the film. To be honest, the FF doesn't need overthinking because what hampered an effective adaptation in the past was that the Four comics are essentially too genre-like and outlandish to pass for any kind of realistic anchor. Now in a post-Talking Raccoon world, those issues don't exist.

Doom speaks in the third person. This is non-negotiable.

I am okay either way. Doom doesn't always talk in third person in comics and there are great stories where he doesn't.

If people want Doctor Doom dated meme or Doctor Doom one of the greatest most complex characters in comics, I think people will trade the former for the latter in a heartbeat. What's important is that they get the casting of Doom right. You need a big actor, preferably one with powerful agents, who will ensure that the performer and the role he plays would be protected and treated with due respect. We can't have a situation where you cast poor Christopher Ecclestone who has no Hollywood muscle to protect him from the indignities done to Malekith.

It's about the family. This can't be Reed's movie. Or Sue's. Or anyone else's (except Doom's! All things are rightfully Doom's!). Each character has to stand on their own, but end of the day the FF are about family and that should always be front and center.

If you are doing a movie centered on the early part of the 4's adventures then Ben Grimm has to be the emotional center and anchor of the film since the origins and driving part of their adventures is Reed's actions which Ben Grimm has to pay for and suffer for the rest of his life.

[Iron Maiden]

Don't be ashamed of Doom. I feel like previous films have halfassed Doom, ignoring his skill in magic, or his royal lineage, downplaying the armor, or whatever, and that's unforgivable. If you use Doom, you go all-in; he's wizard enough to challenge Strange, smart enough to out-tech Tony, rules a nation of his own...Doom's a legit threat on any scale, an easy choice for "next multi-phase big bad" and if you can't get him right, you shouldn't bother doing the FF at all. I don't need Doom to be the main villain in the first film, but whenever he shows up, he's gotta be done right.

Doom speaks in the third person. This is non-negotiable.

I'd rather he didn't ....it can be overdone IMO.

It's been more of a mix for a while now and in Christopher Cantwell's Doom solo it wasn't used much at all. There have been some writers that indulge in the third person habit sometimes to excess to the point where it becomes ridiculous.

I think it can be circumstantial. With Reed, he's pretty much dropped that affectation ....and you must read Doctor Doom #9 BTW if you haven't already. If he is in the U.S he will probably toss it around with Spider-Man or some other of the heroes or villains that he feels are lower tier.

And he is not of royal lineage.....Stan and Jack established that early on in Fantastic Four annual #2. His humble beginnings are the very heart of the character and his animus towards of Reed.

[Metro]

Frankly, I think they should use Doom for the new movie.
He's played out and highly overrated.
I'd like to see Annihilus, or Mole Man.

[Dr. No Good]

Ok I see this happing as a possible movie. Complete with a few storylines to be picked up by other movies and Disney + shows.

We get Reed Richards one of the best minds on the planet he is part of the Baxter Foundation a Government Think Tank that is looking for those who can shape the future with Technology. (Also, they study technology from other worlds) Nathaniel his father drops him off telling him that he will come and visit when he can.

Susan Storm And her brother Johnny Storm are part of the group Susan is there because of science she slows grows on to Reed and helps him build the Rocket, Johnny is there to stay out of trouble he intelligent but is not as intelligent as his sister and father.

Ben Grimm is Reeds Friend Excelling in football as a high school student, Ben received a full scholarship to Empire State University, where he first met his eventual lifelong friend in a teenaged genius named Reed Richards, he joins the group as a test pilot.

The four are sent to a Space Station to do work unknown to them an android is on the staff sending information to someone it is found taking the information on a wave of cosmic radiation energy and sabotages the Space Station is saved by the Four, but they stuck by cosmic radiation samples that were leaked.

Back On Earth the four find out that they have superpowers Reed realises that the cosmic radiation has given them these powers.

They are trained so they can least move around in public without losing control of their powers the Thing gets his coat and hat to is disguise himself in public.

But while at a bank it is robbed by a man called Shellshock the four stop him Shellshock gets away with a lock box, but his goons are trapped. The four are hailed as heroes.

Meanwhile Shellshock returns to a hidden warehouse where several men and woman are studying weapons and technology here, he meets Rhona Erwin the head of this hidden warehouse and her second in command Sorba Rutskaya. She is not happy that the robbery was botched but he got what they wanted the files of Professor Phineas T. Horton and the location of his laboratory they can find it. Rhona tells him that the lab was found and that they will attack the Convoy that will carry the android known as the Human Torch.

Rhona tells him to get ready and that other like him will go with him to get the files and the Android. Sorba is to lead the attack.

Meanwhile The team trains with their powers since the world sees them as the next Avengers, Reed is also going on a date with Susan out to a place at Glenview which is where the lab is at. While Reed and Sue go on the date, While the others retrieve the tech and the files the two meet the others in the Convoy.

The Convoy Raid Happens with Shellshock, Black Ant, Hijacker, and the Awesome Android attacking the four and taking the Android and Reed. After Sorba blasts the first truck in the convoy with a repulsor ray glove

The Three other members after this get ready to get the Android but Reeds Dad Nathaniel Richards shows up, he tells them about the history of Phineas T. Horton and his Android. He also provides evidence, and he tells them of why they have to get him back. He has a piece of a Cosmic Cube with him.

As this is happing Reed is taken to the hidden warehouse it is being cleared out, he remembers Rhona as having borderline psychotic tendencies. Reed calls her mad after seeing the Cube Shard she replies, "If it's mad to think the unthinkable, then I'm the maddest thinker there ever was!" She sends various scans of the GA Human Torch to an unknown location.

The others find and storm the base Shellshock is taken out by Sue, Hijacker and his tank is taken out by Ben and Johnny. Nathaniel saves his son and gets the Cube shard contained but Rhona sets both GA Human Torch and the Awesome Android she escapes thanks to Black Ant. Sorba gets away by walking thru a wall.

The warehouse is wrecked in the fight, the Four at this point become the Fantastic Four and in an awesome battle fight the Awesome Android. They are helped by the GA Human Torch at the last minute being restored to history by the Cube shard being contained. The Villains are taken away and what technology is left taken back for study.

The move in to Four Freedoms Plaza while still maintaining ties with the Baxter Foundation Reed Sets up his own lab here. He starts a relationship with Sue Ben and Johnny also move in.

We Get Two Mid-Credits scenes and one End-Credit’s scene.

The First Mid-Credit Scene

The First Scene Has Rhona, Sorba and Black Ant enter a dark room to first meet with Ivan Kragoff he is not happy with what happened then several holo screens appear they give reports to Curtiss Jackson, Veil, Monica Rappaccini and Cache with Rhona handing over the scans of Jim Hammond and copies of his notes. Ivan also shows off a Cosmic Cube Shard that was taken from Tibet that they they will find the other shards.

Curtiss Jackson then tells them to help prepare the Corporation’s weapons to be ready to be sold, Monica points out that that new super powered agents for the group to use must be found as they will have to be trained to get the rest of the Cube, Veil agrees as she has already set up a training area, Cache then asks first who they choose to use their technology and that they should leave it to him.

The Second Scene has Bucky visiting Jim Hammond helping adjust to the Future and he is concerned about the cube shard where did it come from in the first place how it was used to alter history and asks Jim if he wants to team up find out more.

The End-Credit’s Scene has Jeffrey Wright as the Watcher talking to Nathaniel Richards asking if the Four and other heroes are ready to find the Cube shards, Nathaniel admits that if the Fantastic Four ready and that he will help them the best he can for as even he knows that Doom is Coming.

For a tv show we get Marvel Team Up.

In this show we get Ben Grimm teaming up with Hawk Eye for a few episodes, then we get him teaming up with say Ant-Man or The Wasp or Shang-Chi trying to find one of the cube shards, While fighting of the likes of Shockwave, Midnight Sun and Black Ant. At the end of the series Grimm gets the shard and takes back to the four. As a mid-credits scene we see a spy make a call to Latveria telling someone that it he has found another Shard and that others are trying to find it.

[Chris0013]

I'm not the biggest FF fan out there. In fact I like most of the adjacent stuff, like Namor, Doom, Wakanda and the Panther, the Negative Zone, all that stuff, more than I like the Richards clan. But you can't discount the pedigree of the franchise and the MCU has churned out a lot of good films about characters I didn't care about.

So for me, not being too invested in the FF but being invested in the MCU.....

Adventure over Action. The FF aren't super heroes, right? They're super scientists, super adventurers. They're not supposed to be beating up criminals, they're supposed to be exploring the deepest corners of reality, expanding humanity's knowledge. I don't know if the first film even needs a "villain" in the classic sense, just some major obstacle they need to overcome; returning home from some exotic location, or trying to stop some kind of big sci-fi natural disaster or something. I won't complain if there's a villain (Mole Man!!) but I feel like this is a IP that isn't going to be served by hero-villain violence, it should take inspiration from stuff like Lost in Space and Twilight Zone more than the Avengers or JLA.

Don't be ashamed of Doom. I feel like previous films have halfassed Doom, ignoring his skill in magic, or his royal lineage, downplaying the armor, or whatever, and that's unforgivable. If you use Doom, you go all-in; he's wizard enough to challenge Strange, smart enough to out-tech Tony, rules a nation of his own...Doom's a legit threat on any scale, an easy choice for "next multi-phase big bad" and if you can't get him right, you shouldn't bother doing the FF at all. I don't need Doom to be the main villain in the first film, but whenever he shows up, he's gotta be done right.

Doom speaks in the third person. This is non-negotiable.

Don't "Ninja Turtles" the FF. I feel like modern writers often boil a character down to a couple traits that're mostly there so they can be juxtaposed against their immediate peers; you have the "smart" one, the "angry" one, the "fun" one, whatever. You see it with Ninja Turtles, you see it now with the Robins over in Gotham, and you even see it with Drax, where most of the depth and nuance gets lost in favor of goofball zingers. Don't do that with the FF; yeah everyone loves how Ben and Johnny bicker, they love how the grumpy vet and the young hot head are always pranking each other....but these characters have to be more well rounded than that; if each member of the FF isn't a fleshed out and interesting character on their own merits, then the family dynamic is going to feel thin and cheap. But at the same time.....

It's about the family. This can't be Reed's movie. Or Sue's. Or anyone else's (except Doom's! All things are rightfully Doom's!). Each character has to stand on their own, but end of the day the FF are about family and that should always be front and center.

Crazy settings. Do not give me a movie where the most interesting place the FF go is lower orbit. Give me something wild; the subterranean tunnels and caves of the Mole society, the Negative Zone, the Savage Land....something truly fantastical.

I think one of the things about the movies is that you don't need to be big fans of the characters in the comics...just a decent knowledge of who they are and that the movie stays as true to the characters as possible.

As for stories.

Movie 1: Mole Man and Subterranea
Movie 2: Negative Zone with Annihilus and Blastaar
Movie 3: Doom. While not prominent in movies 1 and 2 his presence would be felt by the viewers.

[Oberon]

I would like as maybe a 2nd or 3rd movie/arc for the Frightful Four and how it leads to

the Inhumans (Dragon Man along the way of course)

But in reimagining Doom, maybe he would be the leader or brains behind the evil FF?
So, Doom also knows more about Medusa and Inhumans which should be a movie with the Fantastic Four.

[CaptCleghorn]

Here's a crazy idea:

A Doom solo movie. From young Romani boy experiencing the death of his mother to fleeing with his father, to his time at State U and the accident, then his armor and eventually his rise to ruling Latveria. Obviously, being a Marvel movie, Easter Eggs would be numerous. Some connection to the Ancient One as well as stark equipment and Cap's dealings in Europe all can get mentions. Now Doom's accident is the result of a mistake in a calculation in creating a device so he can retrieve his mother's soul. The student who points out Doom's mistake doesn't even need to be mentioned. But once Doom sits upon the throne and credits roll, we see the Marvel post-credit scene where Doom is looking towards a screen. On the desk in front of him is a piece of metal with a "4" logo.

Sure there will be claims of copying Joker. but the material and themes are totally different. Plus I'd expect the PCS to get loads of press.

[DigiCom]

Here's a crazy idea:

A Doom solo movie. From young Romani boy experiencing the death of his mother to fleeing with his father, to his time at State U and the accident, then his armor and eventually his rise to ruling Latveria. Obviously, being a Marvel movie, Easter Eggs would be numerous. Some connection to the Ancient One as well as stark equipment and Cap's dealings in Europe all can get mentions. Now Doom's accident is the result of a mistake in a calculation in creating a device so he can retrieve his mother's soul. The student who points out Doom's mistake doesn't even need to be mentioned. But once Doom sits upon the throne and credits roll, we see the Marvel post-credit scene where Doom is looking towards a screen. On the desk in front of him is a piece of metal with a "4" logo.

Sure there will be claims of copying Joker. but the material and themes are totally different. Plus I'd expect the PCS to get loads of press.

I'd rather see a Doom 2099 movie, down the road a bit.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Here's a crazy idea:

A Doom solo movie.

Something I'd want to.

From young Romani boy experiencing the death of his mother to fleeing with his father, to his time at State U and the accident, then his armor and eventually his rise to ruling Latveria. Obviously, being a Marvel movie, Easter Eggs would be numerous. Some connection to the Ancient One as well as stark equipment and Cap's dealings in Europe all can get mentions. Now Doom's accident is the result of a mistake in a calculation in creating a device so he can retrieve his mother's soul. The student who points out Doom's mistake doesn't even need to be mentioned. But once Doom sits upon the throne and credits roll, we see the Marvel post-credit scene where Doom is looking towards a screen. On the desk in front of him is a piece of metal with a "4" logo.

Sure there will be claims of copying Joker. but the material and themes are totally different. Plus I'd expect the PCS to get loads of press.

Agreed. A Doom solo movie has plenty of material as well -- Books of Doom, Triumph and Torment, The 2019 Doom Series, Astonishing Tales, Emperor Doom.

As it is, I think what will happen is that Doom will get a Disney Plus series eventually.

The MCU seems to treat the movies as the Flagship Titles, Ongoings, Event Books, while Disney Series are essentially miniseries or satellite titles. They'd never greenlight a movie focused on Wanda and Vision but a TV show is fine. Likewise, a Loki movie wouldn't happen but a Loki TV series certainly.

That said...if they cast a really big star as Doom -- think DiCaprio, Driver -- then it would work. The actor's clout, his agents, and managers would insist on Doom movies.

[JudicatorPrime]

The only problem that I see with starting the franchise off with a Doom solo movie is that you run the risk of the villain owning the narrative and rendering the heroes unlikeable. Doom represents both the chief threat and, on some levels, a legitimate grievance. With Batman and Joker you don't have that dynamic. Everyone accepts that the Joker is more than a little unhinged, no matter what his truths may be. The Batman's crazy is just a bit more cooler than the Joker's crazy. But Doom? I can actually see people cheering for him to win -- at least in his battles with Reed.

[Metro]

The only problem that I see with starting the franchise off with a Doom solo movie is that you run the risk of the villain owning the narrative and rendering the heroes unlikeable. Doom represents both the chief threat and, on some levels, a legitimate grievance. With Batman and Joker you don't have that dynamic. Everyone accepts that the Joker is more than a little unhinged, no matter what his truths may be. The Batman's crazy is just a bit more cooler than the Joker's crazy. But Doom? I can actually see people cheering for him to win -- at least in his battles with Reed.

What legitimate grievance?
Doom's feud with Reed is based entirely on the fact Reed is smarter than him and Doom's too much of an ego maniac to admit it, instead deciding to dedicate his life to ruining Reed's.
It's only a legitimate grievance in the same way Lex Luthor has a legitimate grievance with Superman, in that everything they say is just a mask for their ego.

[Iron Maiden]

Something I'd want to.



Agreed. A Doom solo movie has plenty of material as well -- Books of Doom, Triumph and Torment, The 2019 Doom Series, Astonishing Tales, Emperor Doom.

As it is, I think what will happen is that Doom will get a Disney Plus series eventually.

The MCU seems to treat the movies as the Flagship Titles, Ongoings, Event Books, while Disney Series are essentially miniseries or satellite titles. They'd never greenlight a movie focused on Wanda and Vision but a TV show is fine. Likewise, a Loki movie wouldn't happen but a Loki TV series certainly.

That said...if they cast a really big star as Doom -- think DiCaprio, Driver -- then it would work. The actor's clout, his agents, and managers would insist on Doom movies.

I also think the odds are good Doom may appear or perhaps hinted at in Disney series first. I wouldn't mind if it is not necessarily his own series but have Doom or mentions of Doom in the other series. I doubt it will happen but it would be nice to see some reference to Doom in the Loki series since the TVA was alerted to his use of the time sequences in the clever duel between Doom and Reed done by Walt Simonson in Fantastic Four #352.

I have a feeling that a relative unknown will be cast as Doom. I wouldn't mind that since they've done very well with their casting choices.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The only problem that I see with starting the franchise off with a Doom solo movie is that you run the risk of the villain owning the narrative and rendering the heroes unlikeable.

Fans generally like Doom more than Reed anyway. The stories fundamentally have Doom as the more entertaining and interesting character in their dynamic. And Doom is the protagonist of SECRET WARS 1984 and 2015.

So fundamentally Doom should own the narrative. And the best comics supervillains generally do that.

Doom represents both the chief threat and, on some levels, a legitimate grievance. With Batman and Joker you don't have that dynamic. Everyone accepts that the Joker is more than a little unhinged, no matter what his truths may be.

It's the same principle, Joker's generally a more entertaining and interesting character than Batman and that's been the case with nearly all his live action portrayals -- Cesar Romero's Joker is more fun than West's Batman, Nicholson's Joker more than Keaton's Batman, Ledger's Joker more than Bale's Batman. That's why Joker's such a dominating supervillain in popular culture. It's a point of fact that Batman movies without Joker don't do as well as movies with Joker, and Joker's solo movie made way more money (and given low budget, way more profit) than every Post-Ledger Batman movie appearance. Look at the actors they cast to play Joker -- Nicholson, Ledger, Phoenix. It's often the kind of actor who are leading men, big name players, in some cases greater in stature and fame than the hero (Nicholson and Keaton) or at the very least the equal (Ledger and Bale).

Casting itself does much of the work in selling the character. You look at the X-Men, you have Ian McKellen as Magneto and he's a Shakespearean Knight and theater performer much like Stewart.

But Doom? I can actually see people cheering for him to win -- at least in his battles with Reed.

People root for Doom over Reed in the comics too.

I also think the odds are good Doom may appear or perhaps hinted at in Disney series first.

Hints maybe. But appearances no. MCU have so far not really introduced major characters in the movies in the Disney series first. Maybe they will eventually but it's unlikely.

I doubt it will happen but it would be nice to see some reference to Doom in the Loki series since the TVA was alerted to his use of the time sequences in the clever duel between Doom and Reed done by Walt Simonson in Fantastic Four #352.

I am not sure where they'll go with Loki, let's wait and see.

I have a feeling that a relative unknown will be cast as Doom. I wouldn't mind that since they've done very well with their casting choices.

Ultimately Doom's going to have to fight the Beyonder and become ruler of Battleworld which means he defeats, crushes and overpowers every hero and team in the MCU. You need a really big actor to sell that because agents won't like actors who play superheroes to be taken out by newcomers.

Josh Brolin for instance was a respected actor and so he got the honor to snap the universe and have RDJ kill himself to stop him.

[Agent Z]

Fans generally like Doom more than Reed anyway. The stories fundamentally have Doom as the more entertaining and interesting character in their dynamic. And Doom is the protagonist of SECRET WARS 1984 and 2015.

So fundamentally Doom should own the narrative. And the best comics supervillains generally do that.



It's the same principle, Joker's generally a more entertaining and interesting character than Batman and that's been the case with nearly all his live action portrayals -- Cesar Romero's Joker is more fun than West's Batman, Nicholson's Joker more than Keaton's Batman, Ledger's Joker more than Bale's Batman. That's why Joker's such a dominating supervillain in popular culture. It's a point of fact that Batman movies without Joker don't do as well as movies with Joker, and Joker's solo movie made way more money (and given low budget, way more profit) than every Post-Ledger Batman movie appearance. Look at the actors they cast to play Joker -- Nicholson, Ledger, Phoenix. It's often the kind of actor who are leading men, big name players, in some cases greater in stature and fame than the hero (Nicholson and Keaton) or at the very least the equal (Ledger and Bale).

Casting itself does much of the work in selling the character. You look at the X-Men, you have Ian McKellen as Magneto and he's a Shakespearean Knight and theater performer much like Stewart.



People root for Doom over Reed in the comics too.



Hints maybe. But appearances no. MCU have so far not really introduced major characters in the movies in the Disney series first. Maybe they will eventually but it's unlikely.



I am not sure where they'll go with Loki, let's wait and see.



Ultimately Doom's going to have to fight the Beyonder and become ruler of Battleworld which means he defeats, crushes and overpowers every hero and team in the MCU. You need a really big actor to sell that because agents won't like actors who play superheroes to be taken out by newcomers.

Josh Brolin for instance was a respected actor and so he got the honor to snap the universe and have RDJ kill himself to stop him.

Casting DiCaprio and Driver isn't a good idea unless you want the MCU facing another racism backlash.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Casting DiCaprio and Driver isn't a good idea unless you want the MCU facing another racism backlash.

You mean them not being Romani? That’s an interesting point. At the same time I don’t think it would be entirely on the same level. Magneto for instance has been portrayed by two gentile actors before and Jewish Xmen fans have embraced that.