Jon Kent and the Superman 2000 pitch

[Superlad93]

We're heading into a new era of Superman comics, and it's being spearheaded by Jon Kent's inheriting of the title, and quite a few people-- myself included-- have noticed that Jon's Superman shares some stuff in common with the New 52 Superman. While this remains true, and what I feel to be part of the idea behind this (the general idea of a young, single Superman still trying to figure it out), I think there's a deeper, more direct inspiration

I'm talking about the Superman 2000 (aka Superman Now) pitch by Grant Morrison, Mark Millar, Tom Peyer & Mark Waid. This is holy text to quite a lot of Superman fans-- especially the Morrison subsection. It's always represented the ultimate What Could've Been of the Superman IP in comics. And it stings even worse when three of the most respected and beloved Superman stories take directly from this pitch (All Star, Birthright, and Red Son). All Star Superman in particular lifts the most from the 2000 pitch and also just so happens to be maybe the most beloved and respected Superman story of the 21st century with no sign of being dethroned.

Here's the pitch if you haven't read it https://sites.google.com/site/deepsp...-2000-proposal I'll be referencing back to it, so you may want to take a look.

Power

First off, one of the biggest aspects of Jon Kent's Superman that has been brought up by his current writer (who is specifically setting the stage for Taylor to takeover) is that Jon Kent is very, very, VERY powerful. This is in every interview Jon is brought up, it's in the Superman book, and it's expressly stated in Action Comics. The thing is, this is also the thing that defined the Superman from the Superman 2000 pitch. There it's stated that Clark gets three times more super in every single way, and that shifts everything about his life, and is the crux of the pitch.

One of the defining aspects of Clark's new level of power is that his curiosity and creativity have gone way up. This is replicated in Jon, but not as a result of his powers, but rather a natural aspect of his personality. When PKJ was describing how Jon and Clark contrast he said that Jon was more outgoing and creative. This is then demonstrated in issue 31 of Superman where Jon uses his heat vision in a way that Clark never thought to and is apparently unable to.

"More Alien"

Another really big part of the 2000 pitch was the idea of making Superman a bit more remote and alien as he adjusts to his new senses and power. This doesn't translate over to Jon 1 to 1 because it's not about his powers in this case. But it does translate to him when you remember that PKJ has characterized Jon as a "man out of time" both in interviews and in the comics themselves. He says that Jon Kent feels like he has no anchor, time, or place he belongs to because of his very strange life, so "he's always one that's searching".

This corresponds with what the Superman 2000 pitch feels to be the defining moment of Superman's character. "The scene with Superboy and the grasshopper in Miracle Monday nails it beautifully; this could be the world’s scariest living being, a detached, scientific observer with the ability to experiment upon us all. Instead, this brilliant Kryptonian brain was introduced to the noblest of human values and somehow those great powers were put to use in the service of an ethical code the Kryptonians would have been impressed and startled by."

I'd say this in replicated in Jon's section of Infinite Frontier #0. Diana and Spectre are basically debating on how if Jon will go bad because of him technically being so removed from everything around him, and being a man out of time. It ends with Jon proving that he's inherently good and will do the right thing. PKJ clarified this story on a podcast because some of us were confused on the meaning (myself included). He said that the story was about proving Diana right, and saying that even though he could be the most dangerous thing around, he's a good person and a Superman down to his core.

Training to be a Superman

Similar to JSA finding and training Clark, Jon is found and trained by the Legion. And in a similar way to Doc Fate saying that they need to ready Clark to be the greatest hero of them all, Brainy said that they needed to ready Jon to be the "one true Superman". And the Legion remains a very big aspect of Jon's story going into both PKJ and Taylor's runs. The solicitation for Son of Kal-El #1 even brings up the training, and Jon's whole character in PKJ's run so far is driven by what he knows of the future. Plus, we know that Taylor will be revisiting Legion stuff (specifically Saturn Girl stuff).

Greater Focus on The Fortress

the 2000 pitch really wanted to devote some time and effort to the Fortress, and the same seems to be true for Jon's Superman book. Issue #2 of Son of Kal-El makes a point to not only bring up Jon getting the keys to the Fortress, but also characterizes it as a very fun thing in a wishful sort of way.

Solaris

Future State had Solaris one of Jon's main foes that he's fought countless times. This is particularly interesting because Morrison created Solaris, and the first time he's meant to show himself is to fight, yeah you guessed it, the heir to the Superman title.

On top of that, Taylor will have Jon dealing with climate change. Solaris is a literal sun. The leap isn't hard. While you get the core message out, you still need something for Superman to eventually punch. If the issue is global warming, then what better way to dramatize that than to have Superman fighting an actual manmade sun?

Superman Secondus and DC never letting go

Don't know how many know this, but Jon's suit from Future State and from the upcoming Son of Kal-El are heavily inspired by Secondus' look in All Star Superman. This is no surprise because Morrison has been confirmed to be someone giving suggestions on the Superman line.

But the interesting part is that even as far back as Lewis and Timms on Superman of Metropolis, it's been confirmed that they didn't come up with that suit, but rather it was given to them. And now a slightly changed version of it is being given to Taylor and Timms.

What some people don't get about big two comics is that very rarely is it *just* a writer and artist coming over, saying they have an idea, and being allowed to tell that story start to finish with no changes or input. Lots of times it's more like English homework where you get a writing prompt with guidelines and rules. One recent example is Superman of Metropolis requiring that Lewis write Jon Kent shrinking the city. Or even the fact that PKJ didn't come to DC with the idea of House of El, but rather they came to him with that prompt and he filled it in. Hell, even Jon Kent being on the Legion wasn't a Bendis idea (and neither was the age up). It was a mandate by DC.

Jon Kent is very easily one of the most carefully looked after characters in DC right now. PKJ brought up that even beyond his book or Taylor's book, Jon is linked to a whole bunch. So I imagine there are writing prompts for him for anyone using him. One of those prompts may very well be the revival of the Superman 2000 pitch via him. I mean, Morrison and Waid are right there to give their stamp of approval.

Plus, DC doesn't throw anything out. "Well, this wasn't even published" you say? Remember the story of how Crisis was originally supposed to end? Earth-2 Superman was supposed to take Earth-1 Clark's place and removed the old man make up and wig to show that he was still young. Well, look what happened in Rebirth/Superman Reborn!

[kryptonian]

We're heading into a new era of Superman comics, and it's being spearheaded by Jon Kent's inheriting of the title, and quite a few people-- myself included-- have noticed that Jon's Superman shares some stuff in common with the New 52 Superman. While this remains true, and what I feel to be part of the idea behind this (the general idea of a young, single Superman still trying to figure it out), I think there's a deeper, more direct inspiration

I'm talking about the Superman 2000 (aka Superman Now) pitch by Grant Morrison, Mark Millar, Tom Peyer & Mark Waid. This is holy text to quite a lot of Superman fans-- especially the Morrison subsection. It's always represented the ultimate What Could've Been of the Superman IP in comics. And it stings even worse when three of the most respected and beloved Superman stories take directly from this pitch (All Star, Birthright, and Red Son). All Star Superman in particular lifts the most from the 2000 pitch and also just so happens to be maybe the most beloved and respected Superman story of the 21st century with no sign of being dethroned.

Here's the pitch if you haven't read it https://sites.google.com/site/deepsp...-2000-proposal I'll be referencing back to it, so you may want to take a look.

Power

First off, one of the biggest aspects of Jon Kent's Superman that has been brought up by his current writer (who is specifically setting the stage for Taylor to takeover) is that Jon Kent is very, very, VERY powerful. This is in every interview Jon is brought up, it's in the Superman book, and it's expressly stated in Action Comics. The thing is, this is also the thing that defined the Superman from the Superman 2000 pitch. There it's stated that Clark gets three times more super in every single way, and that shifts everything about his life, and is the crux of the pitch.

One of the defining aspects of Clark's new level of power is that his curiosity and creativity have gone way up. This is replicated in Jon, but not as a result of his powers, but rather a natural aspect of his personality. When PKJ was describing how Jon and Clark contrast he said that Jon was more outgoing and creative. This is then demonstrated in issue 31 of Superman where Jon uses his heat vision in a way that Clark never thought to and is apparently unable to.

"More Alien"

Another really big part of the 2000 pitch was the idea of making Superman a bit more remote and alien as he adjusts to his new senses and power. This doesn't translate over to Jon 1 to 1 because it's not about his powers in this case. But it does translate to him when you remember that PKJ has characterized Jon as a "man out of time" both in interviews and in the comics themselves. He says that Jon Kent feels like he has no anchor, time, or place he belongs to because of his very strange life, so "he's always one that's searching".

This corresponds with what the Superman 2000 pitch feels to be the defining moment of Superman's character. "The scene with Superboy and the grasshopper in Miracle Monday nails it beautifully; this could be the world’s scariest living being, a detached, scientific observer with the ability to experiment upon us all. Instead, this brilliant Kryptonian brain was introduced to the noblest of human values and somehow those great powers were put to use in the service of an ethical code the Kryptonians would have been impressed and startled by."

I'd say this in replicated in Jon's section of Infinite Frontier #0. Diana and Spectre are basically debating on how if Jon will go bad because of him technically being so removed from everything around him, and being a man out of time. It ends with Jon proving that he's inherently good and will do the right thing. PKJ clarified this story on a podcast because some of us were confused on the meaning (myself included). He said that the story was about proving Diana right, and saying that even though he could be the most dangerous thing around, he's a good person and a Superman down to his core.

Training to be a Superman

Similar to JSA finding and training Clark, Jon is found and trained by the Legion. And in a similar way to Doc Fate saying that they need to ready Clark to be the greatest hero of them all, Brainy said that they needed to ready Jon to be the "one true Superman". And the Legion remains a very big aspect of Jon's story going into both PKJ and Taylor's runs. The solicitation for Son of Kal-El #1 even brings up the training, and Jon's whole character in PKJ's run so far is driven by what he knows of the future. Plus, we know that Taylor will be revisiting Legion stuff (specifically Saturn Girl stuff).

Greater Focus on The Fortress

the 2000 pitch really wanted to devote some time and effort to the Fortress, and the same seems to be true for Jon's Superman book. Issue #2 of Son of Kal-El makes a point to not only bring up Jon getting the keys to the Fortress, but also characterizes it as a very fun thing in a wishful sort of way.

Solaris

Future State had Solaris one of Jon's main foes that he's fought countless times. This is particularly interesting because Morrison created Solaris, and the first time he's meant to show himself is to fight, yeah you guessed it, the heir to the Superman title.

On top of that, Taylor will have Jon dealing with climate change. Solaris is a literal sun. The leap isn't hard. While you get the core message out, you still need something for Superman to eventually punch. If the issue is global warming, then what better way to dramatize that than to have Superman fighting an actual manmade sun?

Superman Secondus and DC never letting go

Don't know how many know this, but Jon's suit from Future State and from the upcoming Son of Kal-El are heavily inspired by Secondus' look in All Star Superman. This is no surprise because Morrison has been confirmed to be someone giving suggestions on the Superman line.

But the interesting part is that even as far back as Lewis and Timms on Superman of Metropolis, it's been confirmed that they didn't come up with that suit, but rather it was given to them. And now a slightly changed version of it is being given to Taylor and Timms.

What some people don't get about big two comics is that very rarely is it *just* a writer and artist coming over, saying they have an idea, and being allowed to tell that story start to finish with no changes or input. Lots of times it's more like English homework where you get a writing prompt with guidelines and rules. One recent example is Superman of Metropolis requiring that Lewis write Jon Kent shrinking the city. Or even the fact that PKJ didn't come to DC with the idea of House of El, but rather they came to him with that prompt and he filled it in. Hell, even Jon Kent being on the Legion wasn't a Bendis idea (and neither was the age up). It was a mandate by DC.

Jon Kent is very easily one of the most carefully looked after characters in DC right now. PKJ brought up that even beyond his book or Taylor's book, Jon is linked to a whole bunch. So I imagine there are writing prompts for him for anyone using him. One of those prompts may very well be the revival of the Superman 2000 pitch via him. I mean, Morrison and Waid are right there to give their stamp of approval.

Plus, DC doesn't throw anything out. "Well, this wasn't even published" you say? Remember the story of how Crisis was originally supposed to end? Earth-2 Superman was supposed to take Earth-1 Clark's place and removed the old man make up and wig to show that he was still young. Well, look what happened in Rebirth/Superman Reborn!

Imagine mark Miller, Grant Morrison, and mark waid working together on a miniseries for Jon Kent

[Vakanai]

It just kind of pisses me off more for what could have been for Clark. What I'd do to have gotten that for Superman instead of him having a kid.

[kryptonian]

If anyone should have gotten 2000 pitch treatment...it should have been Clark

Jon can be post-crisis Superman with human emotions and down to earth stories while his cosmic father god literally can be the Mort Weisinger’s Silver Age Superman

[Sacred Knight]

It just kind of pisses me off more for what could have been for Clark. What I'd do to have gotten that for Superman instead of him having a kid.

Yup. What a waste of good ideas if it is the inspiration. It was then and remains today ideas that should have been implemented after the post-Crisis era started to wear down and wear thin. Its just that now they're doing it, they're doing it with the wrong character. Meanwhile we're still fairly in the dark as to what the real Superman is going to be getting other than he'll be "leaving" for parts as of yet unknown. And the fact its not being hyped up at all comparatively to Jonman is fairly concerning in its own right. Lends credence to my belief that what they're doing with Superman is completely reactionary to what their main focus is, which is Jon. Get Clark out of the way, figure out what the hell ever there, it doesn't really matter. Jon matters. That's the impression they give. Now, does that mean whatever Superman does next won't necessarily be fun to read? No it doesn't. Doesn't change the stark feeling of what the motivation for it all really is though.

[oneveryfineday]

Just from a name standpoint, using Superman 2000 as the template for Jon Kent—who is titled the 21st Century Superman—would be a stroke of brilliance. I hope you’re on the money with this, especially knowing that this pitch gave us some all-time classics.

(It’s a shame that this pitch was turned down for Clark though)

And yeah, I love that Jon’s FS books drew inspiration from Superman Secundus and referenced previous mythology. The cool thing about Jon as a character is that he’s not exactly new; go decades back and you’ll find Superman II and Clark Jr and Superman 2020 and Superman Secundus, all prototypes for him. Clearly Jon is being built off some of the ideas for Clark, but there’s actually Son Of Steel lore to draw from as well and I’m glad they’re doing it. Now I just need Taylor to have Solaris name drop Superman Secundus for Jon and I’ll be pretty damn happy.

And Jon becoming Superman is a monumental step forward in the mythos that’s different from his father’s. Clark is Superman, but once you say there’s a Superman II, you legitimize the concept of lineage, and then you can say there’s a Superman III and a Superman IV and an 853th Century Superman and so on. It’s no coincidence we’re getting stories of the House of El and Ronan Kent stepping up as the new Superman of his era the same time Jon is putting on the mantle as well.

Which ties into this bit from the Superman 2000 pitch: “Superman is able to rendezvous with his descendants, members of the Superman Squad from upcoming eras.”

PKJ teased that current day characters might show up in the House Of El annual, so the meeting of generations might become a regular thing as well.

[Superlad93]

Just from a name standpoint, using Superman 2000 as the template for Jon Kent—who is titled the 21st Century Superman—would be a stroke of brilliance.

I was thinking the same thing. The pitch was always made with the intention to push Superman into the 21st century-- all the way down to even the costume. And I think a few of its ideas actually work better (controversial, I know) in the context of it being about a 17 year old Jon Kent in college trying to figure the world out as Superman. Like, the childlike curiosity and thirst for learning-- while totally fine a grown man-- just hits with a little more weight when it's an actual kid learning more about the world around him and learning about being Superman.

PKJ even sated that while Clark is sort of the "old vet" "everything is still so new and exciting for Jon".

And Jon becoming Superman is a monumental step forward in the mythos that’s different from his father’s. Clark is Superman, but once you say there’s a Superman II, you legitimize the concept of lineage, and then you can say there’s a Superman III and a Superman IV and an 853th Century Superman and so on. It’s no coincidence we’re getting stories of the House of El and Ronan Kent stepping up as the new Superman of his era the same time Jon is putting on the mantle as well.

Which ties into this bit from the Superman 2000 pitch: “Superman is able to rendezvous with his descendants, members of the Superman Squad from upcoming eras.”

This is something I've been thinking about a lot actually. Most of the time DC's pretty precious about setting up direct future family for Superman. They usually don't do it, or they leave it ambiguous. But these days they've not only let Bendis set up Mon-El as Jon's direct descendant (along with his three daughters), but they also flat out requested the House of El book as we got it.

I have a friend that won't be particularly happy about this theory, but I really do think that the House of El will function as a replacement to the Superman Squad. And I think PKJ was told to set it up in part for Taylor to use.

I think the set up for it is very easy. At whatever point during the run Jon is having a "Superman No More" moment, and feeling like he'll be the downfall of his family name, but then somehow he's visited by the House of El. Likely use the fact that both Ronan and Jon are new to the role of Superman and dealing with legacy, and kind of be a way for both of them to come away with new resolve.

[kryptonian]

I was thinking the same thing. The pitch was always made with the intention to push Superman into the 21st century-- all the way down to even the costume. And I think a few of its ideas actually work better (controversial, I know) in the context of it being about a 17 year old Jon Kent in college trying to figure the world out as Superman. Like, the childlike curiosity and thirst for learning-- while totally fine a grown man-- just hits with a little more weight when it's an actual kid learning more about the world around him and learning about being Superman.

PKJ even sated that while Clark is sort of the "old vet" "everything is still so new and exciting for Jon".



This is something I've been thinking about a lot actually. Most of the time DC's pretty precious about setting up direct future family for Superman. They usually don't do it, or they leave it ambiguous. But these days they've not only let Bendis set up Mon-El as Jon's direct descendant (along with his three daughters), but they also flat out requested the House of El book as we got it.

I have a friend that won't be particularly happy about this theory, but I really do think that the House of El will function as a replacement to the Superman Squad. And I think PKJ was told to set it up in part for Taylor to use.

I think the set up for it is very easy. At whatever point during the run Jon is having a "Superman No More" moment, and feeling like he'll be the downfall of his family name, but then somehow he's visited by the House of El. Likely use the fact that both Ronan and Jon are new to the role of Superman and dealing with legacy, and kind of be a way for both of them to come away with new resolve.

The house of el does seem like a modernized version of that

[Thor-Ul]

Imagine mark Miller, Grant Morrison, and mark waid working together on a miniseries for Jon Kent

Hardly. I think they are more fans of the archetypical Superman.

[Superlad93]

Hardly. I think they are more fans of the archetypical Superman.

Well, yeah, but so is Tom Taylor, yet...

Like him, they're writers, so if inspiration strikes they'll write about whoever. And just as I said, in the first post, writing for the big two is like writing for an English class. You get prompts.

Superman & The Authority doesn't seem to be Morrison's original idea (since this was something rumored long ago with the 5G stuff), and it's likely he was asked to write it.

[oneveryfineday]

Well, yeah, but so is Tom Taylor, yet...

Like him, they're writers, so if inspiration strikes they'll write about whoever. And just as I said, in the first post, writing for the big two is like writing for an English class. You get prompts.

Superman & The Authority doesn't seem to be Morrison's original idea (since this was something rumored long ago with the 5G stuff), and it's likely he was asked to write it.

I think Taylor might have asked to write Jon Kent’s Superman. Before Nightwing and SOKE were announced, he teased that he had two ongoing DC projects, one that he was approached for and one that he requested. He later confirmed that he was approached for Nightwing, so he must have asked for Superman (which makes sense, he’s been wanting to write him for years). I think Taylor could’ve chosen Clark if he wanted to considering PKJ is a complete unknown, not to mention a young hero taking up a legacy and tackling modern political issues is completely in Taylor’s wheelhouse. He’s enthusiastic about how he’s “finally getting to write Superman”, showing he sees Jon just as equal a Superman as Clark.

I wonder who might have been on the SOKE shortlist if Taylor hadn’t been approached for it initially.

[Superlad93]

I think Taylor might have asked to write Jon Kent’s Superman. Before Nightwing and SOKE were announced, he teased that he had two ongoing DC projects, one that he was approached for and one that he requested. He later confirmed that he was approached for Nightwing, so he must have asked for Superman (which makes sense, he’s been wanting to write him for years). I think Taylor could’ve chosen Clark if he wanted to considering PKJ is a complete unknown, not to mention a young hero taking up a legacy and tackling modern political issues is completely in Taylor’s wheelhouse. And I like the fact that he’s enthusiastic about the way he says “I finally get to write Superman”, showing that he sees Jon just as equal a Superman as Clark.

I do wonder who might have been on the SOKE shortlist though if Taylor hadn’t been approached for it initially.

That's really, really great to hear, but I don't think that takes away from my point. I think he ultimately gravitates towards the basic idea of the classic Clark Superman, but Taylor is very flexible as a writer with these idea, and he seems to know that these IPs will be different things to new generations. Him wanting to be part of that is great to see.

I don't actually think Taylor could've picked Clark because DC apparently came to PKJ with the Clark stuff fairly early on since his involvement with 5G, and Lewis said that they were mostly looking for a fan favorite or famous writer to take on Jon book. I think it's absolutely amazing that Taylor speaks of Jon as being just as much Superman as his dad. That's what the writer of this book needs to talk and think like.

According to Bleeding Cool Bendis was in fact supposed to keep going on with Jon's book. I suspect Fraction was on the list because he talked about DC coming to him to take on a bigger role post 5G. Lewis is also confirmed to have been on the list as the one unknown pick. Other than that I can't really think of many others.

[oneveryfineday]

I don't actually think Taylor could've picked Clark because DC apparently came to PKJ with the Clark stuff fairly early on since his involvement with 5G, and Lewis said that they were mostly looking for a fan favorite or famous writer to take on Jon book. I think it's absolutely amazing that Taylor speaks of Jon as being just as much Superman as his dad. That's what the writer of this book needs to talk and think like.

According to Bleeding Cool Bendis was in fact supposed to keep going on with Jon's book. I suspect Fraction was on the list because he talked about DC coming to him to take on a bigger role post 5G. Lewis is also confirmed to have been on the list as the one unknown pick. Other than that I can't really think of many others.

Oh cool, I didn’t know about all that. Do you have a link to the Lewis stuff?

[Superlad93]

Oh cool, I didn’t know about all that. Do you have a link to the Lewis stuff?

Fairly certain this is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDes...2%80%99nComics

DC seemed to luck out when one of their hottest writers (and one of the hottest writers in mainstream right now) apparently elected to take over the Superman book.

Also, just wanted to give a heads up, since Taylor apparently gave an interview for DC on Superman where he got really passionate. Not ETA on when it drops though. My guess is end of June or the first week of July.

[oneveryfineday]

Fairly certain this is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDes...2%80%99nComics

DC seemed to luck out when one of their hottest writers (and one of the hottest writers in mainstream right now) apparently elected to take over the Superman book.

Also, just wanted to give a heads up, since Taylor apparently gave an interview for DC on Superman where he got really passionate. Not ETA on when it drops though. My guess is end of June or the first week of July.

Thanks!

I was looking for the source where Taylor said he asked for one book and was approached for another, but that was months ago and I couldn’t find it. I did see him tweet he was approached for Nightwing though. In any case I suspect he’ll talk more about the process of getting to write for Superman in upcoming interviews, but I’m fairly sure my memory is correct, only just take it with a grain of salt.