Jon Kent and the Superman 2000 pitch

[Superlad93]

Where did you hear this? I haven’t heard a hints about this, just that an event itself was coming in Sept.

It was something he sort of randomly let slip in an interview (don't remember where), and he also mentions that given the nature of the event Power Girl could make a showing.

[Vordan]

The thing about all of these ideas is that none of them are bad, and I can embrace them on their own (although I still want Jon to become the scientist adventurer of the family with a robot squad). My problem is that we could've done all of that without keeping Clark and Lois away from Jon through his whole puberty, and without forcing the Superman title on Jon. Why couldn't they just fast forward in time and give him his own unique name like Hyperman, or Skyman or SkyChamp.

Since his debut Jon has taken over titles previously held by others, such as “Superboy”. Plus he’s Clark’s son, he was never going to be anything besides Superman. Jon and Damian inheriting their dads mantles was part of the appeal of their creation. Besides, Clark appointing a successor at some point in the future was part of the canon DC future with “Secundus” from One Million, and you had Conner Kent also in line to take over the role in various futures like Titans of Tomorrow.

[Blue22]

I've been trying to avoid this thread because I like Superlad (Golden Wind fans UNITE!) and don't wanna rain on his parade any more than I already do in Jon's appreciation thread lol

But...My two cents can't help themselves sometimes....

Jon and Damian inheriting their dads mantles was part of the appeal of their creation.

Not for me. As someone who actually does love legacy characters like them and hero families, that's actually what I've been looking forward to the least. Even before Bendis tried to fix what wasn't broken, this outcome was still something that I feared would happen to Jon (and Damian). It just reeks of zero creativity. Damian and Jon didn't appeal to me because they're, unfortunately, locked into a position where their only options are to replace their fathers (to the point where Damian even tells Jon that he doesn't have a choice...which is all kinds of fucked up but whatever).

They both appealed to me for vastly different reasons but the one thing they have in common in regards to my feelings on them is that I've been absolutely dreading the day where DC decides to have them replace their dads when they grow up, rather than having them make their own identities. I'm not looking forward to all the ways they can be like their fathers. I was looking forward to how they'd be different. I don't want them locked into role of Gotham/Metropolis' sole protectors. I don't want them to never have their own names. I don't want them to get stuck with costumes that are just altered variations of what their dads wore (Man I hate Jon's current costume just as much as I hate the 666 Batsuit. They could have at least let him keep his Legion costume). For all that, I might as well keep reading about their dads. Because I'm almost certain that they'll both just end up defaulting into their Dad's personalities too, with some slight differences like Damian being a slightly more aggressive Batman and Jon being a more "hip" Superman.

That is, of course, if either of them in those roles actually sticks. Because, biases aside, I don't think it will for Jon. Again, taking out the fact that I've been one of the most vocally anti-everything relating to Jon for the past 3 or so years, I really don't think that even Taylor can make this stick. And while, on some level, that thought makes me insanely happy...It's also kinda sad because it never had to be this way in the first place.

The whole, cliché "son inherits the father's role" is something I understand from a marketing standpoint and something that I accepted well before Jon was even a thing. But it's still something that I'll always argue against. I don't care if it's fighting the inevitable. It's just...so damn limiting and makes it sound too much like these characters' destinies were never in their hands like how their fathers' were. Even if, in Damian's case, it's what he used to want (not too sure where he stands on it now since he's still...finding himself). It's actually kinda sad, all things considered.

[Alpha]

Yup
(10chars)

[Alpha]

I think Damian as Batman works better than Jon as Superman though, since the whole point of Damian is that you never know if ge is gonna turn into the nightmare version of Batman so he's actually an inherit challenge to the title if Batman, whereas Jon as Superman is just another Superman where you can project onto him whatever you want. And that hurts both Jon and Clark.

[Vordan]

That’s on DC for doing a lousy job of making Jon different from his dad. But the appeal to DC was always “these guys might grow up one day to inherit their fathers’ mantles”, that was without a doubt why they approved their existence in the first place. Both Bruce and Clark already have ancillary legacy heroes who claim their own identities, these two are the obvious inheritors to the mantles and have been treated as such pretty much since they debuted.

Also I have to ask, if you hate the idea of the two following in their fathers’ footsteps that bad... why on Earth do you like Super Sons? That’s a 1 to 1 copy of the Loeb Superman/Batman dynamic with Jon as the upbeat happy “light” to Damian’s cynical moody “dark”. Jon is the brawn and Damian is the brains. If you wanted Jon to go his own way, pairing him up with Damian was the worst possible choice. Making his most important peer relationship his friendship with Damian locked him in on his dad’s path from then on.

[Alpha]

Because I love the surprises in life and the transitional journeys that make characters cross diagonal lines. A kid being Superman's son and defining himself that way because he wants to be just like his dad is fun. And the fun thing about life is that they then grow up and discover that they actually want something totally different.

[Alpha]

And pairing Jon with Damian as kids should help both characters transform and cross those diagonal lines. Jon would learn from Damian's analytical mind and view of the world.

And this would push him towards what I want him to become, the Doc Brown of the Superman family.
An excentric dude that uses his powers to conduct crazy experiments and explore the world discovering the secrets of the universe, along with his robot superman squad. He has the critical fervor of Lois Lane and the wide open eyes of Clark.

[Superlad93]

Taylor was on twitter the other day and gave a little tease about what sorts of villains Jon would be facing. Nothing very detailed, but the confirmation that we'd be getting both new and old foes was nice.

Taylor: "Jon Kent will have a mix of old and new villains in our #Superman series. His newest villain is shaping up to be pretty scary."

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...48633622704130

I'm fairly confidant Solaris will be on that list (technically being both a new and old foe). But as much as I'm really, really interested in what Jon's new foes will be like, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't just as interested in what his dynamic with the older foes would be like. You get the potential for contrast in how Jon and Clark deal with these people. Maybe it's easier for Jon to beat some of these guys because of his greater power levels? Maybe it's actually harder because beating them comes down to knowing them well more than anything? How do the villains feel about the new Superman?

And there's also room for classic villains being revamped in the face of this new shift. Similar to the Superman 2000 pitch you can have guys like Toyman, Metallo, and Kryptonite Man getting new overhauls.

__________

.....now that I think about it......the Prankster's Superman 2000 pitch sounds a good deal like the Truth media organization from issue #2 of Son of Kal-El.

"He fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way in a manner diametrically opposed to Superman's. He's an anti-corporate prankster, like Michael Moore in TV NATION. He wants to show people the strings and wake them up from their blind acceptance of a S.T.A.R. Labs playing with DNA in the middle of a densely populated area, or a Watchtower on the moon monitoring our every movement, or a Lexcorp secretly taking tax breaks to build Bizarros. The Prankster stages elaborate, humiliating, destructive public hoaxes that mess with people's heads. As astute and perceptive as he is out of control, Prankster is the one earthman who actually worries Luthor."

Holy shit, what if the Prankster becomes Jon's boss if he ends up working for this organization as an activist!?

[kryptonian]

There is nothing but failure waiting for this series


The premise alone is toxic

[oneveryfineday]

Taylor was on twitter the other day and gave a little tease about what sorts of villains Jon would be facing. Nothing very detailed, but the confirmation that we'd be getting both new and old foes was nice.

Taylor: "Jon Kent will have a mix of old and new villains in our #Superman series. His newest villain is shaping up to be pretty scary."

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...48633622704130

I'm fairly confidant Solaris will be on that list (technically being both a new and old foe). But as much as I'm really, really interested in what Jon's new foes will be like, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't just as interested in what his dynamic with the older foes would be like. You get the potential for contrast in how Jon and Clark deal with these people. Maybe it's easier for Jon to beat some of these guys because of his greater power levels? Maybe it's actually harder because beating them comes down to knowing them well more than anything? How do the villains feel about the new Superman?

Oh man yeah, Jon facing off against some of Clark’s villains would be fun, especially Lex in particular. I think that one’s guaranteed to happen since Lex is the iconic Superman villain.

One possible take I imagine is that Lex and Superman have this whole song and dance they’ve been doing for years now, but when a teenager shows up at Lex’s office window at the time when he and Superman would usually have one of their philosophical debates? Lex feels disrespected that Superman thought to send over this mere boy. Unfortunately for Jon, he’s still green and he completely fumbles his words, and Lex sneers at him that he could never be Superman. Jon leaves, feeling despondent and wondering if he really is up to this.

Then Jon manages to thwart one of Lex’s elaborate schemes, and he returns to the office window again, all teenage swagger and grinning at his victory as he delivers his own patented quip to Lex. He then streaks away, with Lex yelling angrily after him, “Superman!!!”

I think seeing Lex and the other old villains deal with a teenage Superman would be a fun twist because they’re all used to Clark, who’s all dignity and gravitas, but now there’s this goofy kid in his place who they underestimate at first. But the insulting thing is, the kid is even more of a nuisance because of how powerful he is—but that doesn’t mean the villains can’t be credible threats as well. Anyway, that’s a dynamic I think would be fun.

I’m looking forward to Jon’s new villains too. They say that a hero is only as good as their villain, and I hope that they can cook up something good. There are all those popular waifu villains over at Batman...maybe Superman should take a page from their book.

[Vordan]

Honestly I don’t really have any interest in Lex and Jon facing off against each other (putting aside that I think Taylor is generally one of the worst Lex writers ever). Jon to Lex would just be a cheap knockoff of the main threat, the alien, who is off in space somewhere. Would prefer Lex followed Clark into space if that’s where Clark is going, although I also would prefer if Lex took a back seat for a while aside from being a member of the Totality.

Brainiac feels like a more natural foe for Jon given Jon’s nature as a Kryptonian-human hybrid would obviously be of interest to Brainiac given it’s something that he’s never catalogued before. If Johnson doesn’t plan to use Brainiac for Clark, then I wouldn’t mind seeing Jon go up against him as they already positioned Brainiac as a future for for Jon in Future State, with Brain Cells as his own legacy villain.

[manwhohaseverything]

I am just here for time luchadores....Lex is meh!!! we got a lex and teenage superman in american alien...I am just not interested in a repeat.I want new unique villains...

[Robanker]

If Jon must fight any of Clark's foes, Zod is the one I want even though he's made something of a heel-face turn. Maybe another Kryptonian.

Really play up the past/future of Krypton's legacy. Sprinkle some Boomer/Zoomer friction and it could make a good showing for your different Jon is from Clark.

[Korath]

I feel that after the events of Death Metal and all and now Clark outing himself and leaving Earth for a time, Lew should just... get a little less belligerent. Perhaps he won't do a second turn around (even if I think he'd have worked better as a reformed villain wearing the S long term) but he shouldn't go all crazy and all. I feel Trojan is here to pick up on Lex, because old baldy will feel a little down, a little aged when he'll see a teenager and not Clark at his window, you know ?

Also, overall, I'm not really a fan of the Superman 2000 concept. In itself, more power won't make Superman a more interesting character. I'd rather Jon have to scrap and use pure ingenuity to make up for shortcomings, and I'd love for him to really be "a little guy" in a way I feel, baring New 52, Clark hasn't been since forever. Also, I don't want All-Star to be the endgame of the Superline, I hate that books far too much for it.