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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I agree with the idea that Diana doesn't have to be the same age as Batman and Superman, but if she is gonna be 40 years old then she has to feel that old.

    A 40 years old Diana that never left Themyscira also didn't go through our normal stages of development like graduating school, leaving home, finding a job, etc. But her at 20 years old should still be different from her at 40 years old.

    I'm not saying that she has to be like the 40 year old women I know, but she has to feel like she has that age.
    Why does she have to ''feel that age''? Age is a construct of human society anyway, born of a bunch of factors including passing through certain life stages/having certain experiences, as well as biological age. If Diana doesn't age physically and if Amazons don't go through the same life stages or experiences a 'normal' human being would likely go through, then why would her concept of age be the same as ours? It becomes immaterial if she's 20 or 40 or 500 or 2000...

    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    But even if she was 3000 years old and on the island, her experience would still only be on the island. She still would be new to the world when she arrives. She maybe wiser then a late 20 year old but isn't that a good thing? Like she isn't gawking over some of the mundane stuff that writers have "fish out of water" characters do.
    Exactly!

    Gal Gadot's Diana looks like a 30-something and is canonically thousands of years old (the exact number is mentioned in Snyder's JL, I don't remember it right now). It doesn't stop her from being a naive ''fish out of water'' when she first shows up on Man's World. And she's probably had more unique life experiences in the nearly 70 years between the first film and WW'84 than she had for the thousands for years before that.

  2. #77
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    But even if she was 3000 years old and on the island, her experience would still only be on the island. She still would be new to the world when she arrives. She maybe wiser then a late 20 year old but isn't that a good thing? Like she isn't gawking over some of the mundane stuff that writers have "fish out of water" characters do.
    Is Hippolyta the only reason why you want Diana to be that old? Do you disagree that regardless of however long it took for Hippolyta to desire a child, it wouldn't be something the gods would have given her right away?

  3. #78
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Why does she have to ''feel that age''? Age is a construct of human society anyway, born of a bunch of factors including passing through certain life stages/having certain experiences, as well as biological age. If Diana doesn't age physically and if Amazons don't go through the same life stages or experiences a 'normal' human being would likely go through, then why would her concept of age be the same as ours? It becomes immaterial if she's 20 or 40 or 500 or 2000...
    An old dog acts differently from when he was young. Our brains change as time goes on. There is definitely a cultural aspect to age, but age still exists without culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Gal Gadot's Diana looks like a 30-something and is canonically thousands of years old (the exact number is mentioned in Snyder's JL, I don't remember it right now). It doesn't stop her from being a naive ''fish out of water'' when she first shows up on Man's World. And she's probably had more unique life experiences in the nearly 70 years between the first film and WW'84 than she had for the thousands for years before that.
    To me that's a bad thing. Regardless of what you think Diana's personality should be like, one thing is certain, she likes to have a purpose in life and work towards something. 3000 years on an island is a long time to not be doing something. I'm not judging the character, but I don't think she would enjoy that at all. Diana isn't like T'Challa whose satisfaction comes from leading his people, what satisfies her is producing change in the world. She has nothing to do for amazonian culture before she leaves the island.

    It would make for an interesting Elseworlds story if this was a case of arrested development, where Diana spends lifetimes on the island feeling useless and unrealized, which would change how she comes to our world.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    An old dog acts differently from when he was young. Our brains change as time goes on. There is definitely a cultural aspect to age, but age still exists without culture.



    To me that's a bad thing. Regardless of what you think Diana's personality should be like, one thing is certain, she likes to have a purpose in life and work towards something. 3000 years on an island is a long time to not be doing something. I'm not judging the character, but I don't think she would enjoy that at all. Diana isn't like T'Challa whose satisfaction comes from leading his people, what satisfies her is producing change in the world. She has nothing to do for amazonian culture before she leaves the island.

    It would make for an interesting Elseworlds story if this was a case of arrested development, where Diana spends lifetimes on the island feeling useless and unrealized, which would change how she comes to our world.
    3000 years is a long time to people who age like normal humans. Not so much for someone lives much longer than that.

  5. #80
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    3000 years is a long time to people who age like normal humans. Not so much for someone lives much longer than that.
    I don't know what you're talking about. I get incredibly annoyed when I'm waiting in line at a store. I get tired of eating the same dish one week in a row. I imagine that immortality would be filled with moments like these for Diana is she spent 3000 years on the samsame island. After a while she would go insane from doing the same thing every day. She isn't like the other amazons that had a harduous life before coming to paradise and thus have mlre reason to enjoy the serenity of that lifestyle.

  6. #81
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Is Hippolyta the only reason why you want Diana to be that old? Do you disagree that regardless of however long it took for Hippolyta to desire a child, it wouldn't be something the gods would have given her right away?
    Well, no. I would imagine Diana would spend a lot of time learning both in the library and the training field. She'd likely be told by everyone and her mother that there isn't much outside the island and take that internally, yet still have that curiosity of if she could leave. She'd go exploring in old ruins for sunken treasures like in her title book right now. How about making friends with all the mythical creatures on the island. She probably did try to leave once but found herself adrift in a sea of fog and clouds you could barely see out of. Your forgetting that the only real way to leave the island is if the gods let you. And what if she needs to train that long for her mission to stop Ares? he is the god of war... he's arguably Diana's most powerful villain and he's villain #1 she fights. She's got to be ready.

    Hippolyta at this point had herself enslaved and raped, her people subjugated, and Themyscira was put to the torch. At some point you have to ask just how much more she needs to suffer and seeing that Aphrodite and Athena, while incredibly accurate to the myths for the most part in comics, it is still a WW comic where some of the Gods do care a lot. They would make the exception. Heck it seems crueler to have Diana for so long thinking it would last forever only for the Gods to take her away, but you knew deep down it was always going to happen, your just angry they let you think it was going to last forever, and even then Diana does come back she's not lost forever, if that's the angle your going for.
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  7. #82
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    Well, no. I would imagine Diana would spend a lot of time learning both in the library and the training field. She'd likely be told by everyone and her mother that there isn't much outside the island and take that internally, yet still have that curiosity of if she could leave. She'd go exploring in old ruins for sunken treasures like in her title book right now. How about making friends with all the mythical creatures on the island. She probably did try to leave once but found herself adrift in a sea of fog and clouds you could barely see out of. Your forgetting that the only real way to leave the island is if the gods let you. And what if she needs to train that long for her mission to stop Ares? he is the god of war... he's arguably Diana's most powerful villain and he's villain #1 she fights. She's got to be ready.

    Hippolyta at this point had herself enslaved and raped, her people subjugated, and Themyscira was put to the torch. At some point you have to ask just how much more she needs to suffer and seeing that Aphrodite and Athena, while incredibly accurate to the myths for the most part in comics, it is still a WW comic where some of the Gods do care a lot. They would make the exception. Heck it seems crueler to have Diana for so long thinking it would last forever only for the Gods to take her away, but you knew deep down it was always going to happen, your just angry they let you think it was going to last forever, and even then Diana does come back she's not lost forever, if that's the angle your going for.
    Ok but really think about what the timeline you want. 3000 years. That's a totally stationary character. I just can't conceive a version of Diana that would spend be willing to spend so many lifetimes on an island. It seems excruciating considering the kind of hero she is. From the golden age to today Diana has always been a character that keeps moving from one thing to another. Meeting new people, finding new places. At the most, I could maybe, just maybe, believe that Diana would be willing to spend one lifetime on the island. 100 years. But more than that just seems like you're writing a different character altogether. And it doesn't make Diana a richer character. And even then, I still feel like spending a lifetime doesn't make sense for Diana.

    Hippolyta's entire life doesn't rotate around having a child. Heck, if it did, she shouldn't be the queen of the amazons. It's a deep desire that should come with a cost. Hippolyta already has a paradise where her people can prosper, her dedication over centuries should be what grants her that wish. And I think it makes much more sense for Hippolyta to spend lifetimes without a child than for Diana, the agent of change, to let herself be put into arrested development. Because Diana only becomes herself when she leaves the island.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Ok but really think about what the timeline you want. 3000 years. That's a totally stationary character. I just can't conceive a version of Diana that would spend be willing to spend so many lifetimes on an island. It seems excruciating considering the kind of hero she is. From the golden age to today Diana has always been a character that keeps moving from one thing to another. Meeting new people, finding new places. At the most, I could maybe, just maybe, believe that Diana would be willing to spend one lifetime on the island. 100 years. But more than that just seems like you're writing a different character altogether. And it doesn't make Diana a richer character. And even then, I still feel like spending a lifetime doesn't make sense for Diana.

    Hippolyta's entire life doesn't rotate around having a child. Heck, if it did, she shouldn't be the queen of the amazons. It's a deep desire that should come with a cost. Hippolyta already has a paradise where her people can prosper, her dedication over centuries should be what grants her that wish. And I think it makes much more sense for Hippolyta to spend lifetimes without a child than for Diana, the agent of change, to let herself be put into arrested development. Because Diana only becomes herself when she leaves the island.
    That's the POINT!

    Diana only really becomes the person we know once she leaves the island. So all your arguments about why Diana wouldn't stay in one place for 'too long' are rendered moot.

    Again you're looking at the passage of time and ageing and personal growth from a human point of view.

    On a slightly related note, in WW'84 (a movie which I will maintain till my dying breath wasn't great but was thoroughly enjoyable in a silly sort of way), it never bothered me that Diana spent nearly 70 years mourning Steve (it seemed to bother a fair number of people online). For Diana, 70 years is maybe a few years at most. She's seen and experienced more in those 70 years than she did in the centuries or millennia before, but still, her concept of time isn't that of a normal human being. To her, meeting Steve and coming to Man's World is still a relatively 'recent' event.

  9. #84
    Mighty Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Why do people equate "being thousands of years on an island" with "not doing anything"? Is Themyscira the size of a block? Are we projecting our own ideas about traveling and socializing onto a completely alien civilization? Plus, what makes anyone think that Diana (or any other amazon) was "not doing anything" on Themyscira? She could have been having adventures in other dimensions and battling monsters and evil gods while on the island.

  10. #85
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Diana only really becomes the person we know once she leaves the island. So all your arguments about why Diana wouldn't stay in one place for 'too long' are rendered moot.
    I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that Diana's desires change once she leaves the island. I meant that she will always feel unfulfilled before she becomes Wonder Woman.

    And I don't think Diana would accept 200 years closed off on an island without a purpose in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Again you're looking at the passage of time and ageing and personal growth from a human point of view.
    She IS human. I don't know why you think someone immortal would be less affected by boredom. I mean, it's total conjecture since there is no such thing as immortality. It's whatever you want it to be.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    Why do people equate "being thousands of years on an island" with "not doing anything"? Is Themyscira the size of a block? Are we projecting our own ideas about traveling and socializing onto a completely alien civilization? Plus, what makes anyone think that Diana (or any other amazon) was "not doing anything" on Themyscira? She could have been having adventures in other dimensions and battling monsters and evil gods while on the island.
    Isn't the point of Steve Trevor that he is the first outsider she meets? The first man of course, but also the first outsider? I don't think Diana would be very marked by that encounter if she had already visited other dimensions.

    And I don't agree with the idea of Paradise Island being invaded by evil gods and monsters while Diana is growing up. It's supposed to be a Paradise that Diana sacrifices for a great purpose (and a feeling of fulfillment).

  12. #87
    Mighty Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    Why do people equate "being thousands of years on an island" with "not doing anything"? Is Themyscira the size of a block? Are we projecting our own ideas about traveling and socializing onto a completely alien civilization? Plus, what makes anyone think that Diana (or any other amazon) was "not doing anything" on Themyscira? She could have been having adventures in other dimensions and battling monsters and evil gods while on the island.
    Even if all the latter stuff didn't happen ( dimensions, etc) the Amazons have spent millenium learning, training, working towards mental, physical and spritiual enlightenment etc.

    I think this is also where the idea of the technologically advanced Amazons really works, as they invented, designed, created advancements beyond the outside world.

    And I agree about time moving differently ( or at least feeling as such for the Amazons) Much the way everything seems to bebmoving at super slow speed when a Flash family member is using superspeed, I'd guess the perception of time is different when you are immortal.

  13. #88
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Time on Themyscira can pass at a different rate than in our world, but why would their perception of time be different with them being immortal? Mentally I'm sure they would have a different way if appreciating moments, but nothing about the perception should be different.

  14. #89

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    Noticed this topic's come up again in some threads, so I thought I'd bump this up.

    To reiterate, personally I think crowbarring Diana into World War II is a dumb idea that makes a mess of her supporting cast, adds a needless complication to her origin/backstory, cheapens her character, ultimately adds nothing of value, and is never treated with the gravity it warrants.

    Even the bragging rights of "She's the in-universe first superhero" is utterly meaningless because DC also wants to maintain Superman as the benchmark of all heroes. That's not a gripe against him, but it's a disservice to Diana making it so she came first, but didn't really matter until Superman came along.

  15. #90
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I also find it weird that (assuming that real-world history is similar or near identical to DC cannon history) that Diana didn’t fight in any other war (American or otherwise).
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

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