Wonder Woman & the World Wars

[Guy_McNichts]

I was going to post this as a reply somewhere, but I figured it could be its own topic: I really hate Wonder Woman being involved with World War II (or WWI). And I don't think her first adventures should be in the distant past.

As a start, it makes a mess of her supporting cast. Mainly Steve, but Etta is she's one of the first friends Diana makes when she leaves Themyscira.
But more importantly, it creates a lot of issues with her character that, while admittedly could make an interesting Elseworld story, won't be treated with the gravity they deserve.

Regarding World War II itself...for one, I just don't understand the obsession with keeping her origin there. Hey, guess what, Superman and Batman also fought Nazis because that was the thing back in the 40's, but we don't see an insistence of keeping their origins there, do we?

More importantly, Diana's stated purpose, her mission, is to bring peace and improve the world. So if Wonder Woman participated in WWII...she failed. She failed as a peacemaker. She failed as a hero.
As much as we (as a country--the United States) love to mythologize WWII because it was the last "good" war with clearly defined "bad guys" that were defeated...there's still the attempted extermination of the Jews, the atrocities the Germans and Russians committed against each other during their fighting, the (arguably) unnecessary bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Among many other things 'cause, you know, it was a freaking war.

Captain America in WWII kind of gets by because he's just a soldier fighting battles and he's not as powerful. But, again, Wonder Woman's stated mission is to bring peace. I can't imagine Diana allowing that stuff to happen, nor do I see them letting politics stop her.

But then comes the bigger question of what the hell she's been doing in the decades since. Because if you have Diana first appear in one of the World Wars (or earlier) you then have to get her to modern times so she can interact with the characters we care about. And surprise, it winds up being a cheap hand-wave that doesn't consider the long-term ramifications of Diana being Wonder Woman that long.

If creators are going to make her hundreds of years old and/or active since one of the World Wars, they do need to acknowledge the toll it would take on her. But it seems like writers wish for a Captain America type of thing where she fought in a World War and we just jump to modern day, but Diana obviously doesn't have the frozen in ice bit...so they just gloss over the fact living for a hundred years and watching friends and loved ones age and die around her should affect Diana.

Then there's the question of what Diana's been doing in the decades since the war, because you have to reconcile how/why a lot of nasty crap happened despite her presence. And, guess what guys, there is no good answer. There's a reason WW84 didn't even acknowledge what Diana was doing (or not doing) after World War I ended.
She either tried to improve things and failed consistently, or felt it wasn't her place to interfere and limited their actions to punching bad guys, reducing her to a milquetoast defender of the status quo.

I don't like the idea of her going back to Themyscira for a couple of decades and then becoming Wonder Woman again in modern day. Because, again, that should be treated with actual gravity. Diana quitting or just packing it up to go home should be a big deal. Something making her decide to be Wonder Woman again should also be a big deal.

There are potentially compelling questions to confront Diana with. How long does she really plan on being Wonder Woman? If enough time went by, would the job or watching her friends and loved ones age wear on her, and if so, what would she do?
As it stands, the only stories off the top of my head to even come close to addressing this is New Frontier and (to an extent) Kingdom Come. Should either of those be the "main" Wonder Woman? Remember how a key part of Diana's arc in that story is how she gets burned out and frustrated with everything to the point where she considers quitting?

Again, that can make for a compelling Elseworlds take on Diana. But I think it's a bad idea to make it the mainline Wonder Woman.

And, finally, at the end of the day, what is gained by this? Why is it so important to have Wonder Woman around in World War II? Yeah, we all love watching her beat up Nazis, but newsflash: they haven't gone anywhere! White supremism and neo-Nazis still exist today!
So she can have the "bragging right" of being the "first superhero"...as if that makes any damn difference? Hooray, more meaningless lip service that won't make DC treat her any better!
So we boast about her unparalleled battle experience...as if it's going to stop her from getting jobbed out like a chump in any given issue of Justice League?

I just don't understand the insistence on anchoring her to the 1940's. If Wonder Woman must fight in World War II for nostalgia or whatever, keep it confined to Earth-2 or an Elseworld. The "main" Wonder Woman should be in the modern day like everyone else.

[Gaius]

I agree. It's fine for a limited Elseworld series like New Frontier where you can go full alternate history but it doesn't really make sense to be her origin in an ongoing continuity where we're expected to believe the world history, has mostly, been the same up until superheroes arriving in whatever the modern day is at the time of publication.

I suppose that applies to the larger JSA also but that comes with writers trying to have their cake and eat it too by trying to shove everything into one Earth.

[I'm a Fish]

DC thinks she has to be first in cannon to be important.
Well, in cannon as of now, the JSA are all heroes before Superman and it doesn’t diminish what he means to people. Being “first” in cannon is an empty title.

Perez run wasn’t a hit because she was punching Nazi’s. People didn’t like her in BvS because she was around for a century.

WWII is just a setting, it’s not Wonder Woman.

Edit: Plus, all of her supporting cast and most of her villains still work for the modern age and in fact have already been updated, so it’s not like her mythos is dated to WWII specifically.

[Psy-lock]

Yup, 100% agreed. An Elseworlds series akin to Superman & Batman: Generations about Diana debuting in one of the world wars would be pretty cool. But for the mainline Wonder Woman it's a ridiculous idea.

[MajorHoy]

I loved Wonder Woman active during WWII back in the pre-CoIE days, when the JSA was on Earth-2 / Earth-Two. (And for those of you who weren't already aware of it, the first season of the Wonder Woman TV show starring Lynda Carter was set during WWII.)

After CoIE, during the late 1990s John Byrne run on Wonder Woman, I enjoyed when Byrne had Hippolyta (as Wonder Woman) travel to the past and retroactively become the "Golden Age" Wonder Woman.

But to make the "current" version of Diana fill that role by being active in the "regular" world back in WWI and WWII is not something I like. To me, it's another way that separates Wonder Woman from Superman and Batman, and not in a good way. I always prefer the idea of them being contemporaries of each other and being among the earliest costumed heroes during the modern age. Diana should be the 21st Century Wonder Woman and not the 20th Century version as well.

[Digifiend]

I loved Wonder Woman active during WWII back in the pre-CoIE days, when the JSA was on Earth-2 / Earth-Two. (And for those of you who weren't already aware of it, the first season of the Wonder Woman TV show starring Lynda Carter was set during WWII.)

After CoIE, during the late 1990s John Byrne run on Wonder Woman, I enjoyed when Byrne had Hippolyta (as Wonder Woman) travel to the past and retroactively become the "Golden Age" Wonder Woman.

But to make the "current" version of Diana fill that role by being active in the "regular" world back in WWI and WWII is not something I like. To me, it's another way that separates Wonder Woman from Superman and Batman, and not in a good way. I always prefer the idea of them being contemporaries of each other and being among the earliest costumed heroes during the modern age. Diana should be the 21st Century Wonder Woman and not the 20th Century version as well.

There's an easy fix to this which they've implemented in the past - Hippolyta being the World War II Wonder Woman in the JSA and All-Star Squadron like you mention, and Diana appearing around the same time Superman shows up. But instead they seem to be pushing Diana starting in wartime. Which makes one wonder how Steve Trevor and Etta Candy are even still alive, as if they're in their 20s in 1940, they'd be over 100 in 2021.

[Alpha]

DC's recent push for Diana to be a World War hero is certainly a superficial way to make it seem like she has an important role in the DC universe, and it's a poor substitute for investing in her Lore. And it is certain that Diana could debut at the same time as Batman and Superman without losing a step.

But it's disengenuous to say that Superman and Batman have as much of a connection to World War 2 as Diana. They obviously had plenty adventures in that era, but Diana has a much greater thematic connection due to Steve being a fighter pilot and the idea that she chose to leave paradise in order to spread peace in our world.

While I am totally fine with her debutting in the present, I still find a lot of potential with her being from World War 2. For one thing, I don't see why the DC universe has to have the exact same history as our world. Why would Diana's efforts destroy the fabric of continuity? For decades we recognized the existence if the Justice Society and the universe went on without any major issues. Maybe there were supervillains during the Vietnam War that needed to be fought along with the actul events of the war.

And at the same time, I don't see what's wrong with Diana's long path to improving our world also having dark periods. Maybe Diana was unable to stop humanity from hurting each other at times, and maybe she even abandoned western society in the 50s after having her values rejected, instead choosing to help out in Asia and Africa.

The best thing about her having existed for so long is that humanity did have big moments of change during the second half of the 20th Centurt, and the one thing I want the most is to see Diana as a champion of counter culture in the late 60s and 70s. This is the greatest benefit of her having existed since World War 2. I wanna see Diana having an adventure with Ziggy Stardust. It would make me overjoyed because it's the exact type of thing that Marston was doing with her in the 40s.

And while I understand your frustation that Diana would be present in our world even though women went on without power for decades, I find it surprising that you don't have the same complaint about us not seeing Diana fight for feminism in the middle east and try to create peace and respect in Israel-Palestine. I mean, the same reasons why Diana isn't fixing the world of today also apply to the 20th century if she existed back then.

[Factor]

I was going to post this as a reply somewhere, but I figured it could be its own topic: I really hate Wonder Woman being involved with World War II (or WWI). And I don't think her first adventures should be in the distant past.

As a start, it makes a mess of her supporting cast. Mainly Steve, but Etta is she's one of the first friends Diana makes when she leaves Themyscira.
But more importantly, it creates a lot of issues with her character that, while admittedly could make an interesting Elseworld story, won't be treated with the gravity they deserve.

Regarding World War II itself...for one, I just don't understand the obsession with keeping her origin there. Hey, guess what, Superman and Batman also fought Nazis because that was the thing back in the 40's, but we don't see an insistence of keeping their origins there, do we?

More importantly, Diana's stated purpose, her mission, is to bring peace and improve the world. So if Wonder Woman participated in WWII...she failed. She failed as a peacemaker. She failed as a hero.
As much as we (as a country--the United States) love to mythologize WWII because it was the last "good" war with clearly defined "bad guys" that were defeated...there's still the attempted extermination of the Jews, the atrocities the Germans and Russians committed against each other during their fighting, the (arguably) unnecessary bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Among many other things 'cause, you know, it was a freaking war.

Captain America in WWII kind of gets by because he's just a soldier fighting battles and he's not as powerful. But, again, Wonder Woman's stated mission is to bring peace. I can't imagine Diana allowing that stuff to happen, nor do I see them letting politics stop her.

But then comes the bigger question of what the hell she's been doing in the decades since. Because if you have Diana first appear in one of the World Wars (or earlier) you then have to get her to modern times so she can interact with the characters we care about. And surprise, it winds up being a cheap hand-wave that doesn't consider the long-term ramifications of Diana being Wonder Woman that long.

If creators are going to make her hundreds of years old and/or active since one of the World Wars, they do need to acknowledge the toll it would take on her. But it seems like writers wish for a Captain America type of thing where she fought in a World War and we just jump to modern day, but Diana obviously doesn't have the frozen in ice bit...so they just gloss over the fact living for a hundred years and watching friends and loved ones age and die around her should affect Diana.

Then there's the question of what Diana's been doing in the decades since the war, because you have to reconcile how/why a lot of nasty crap happened despite her presence. And, guess what guys, there is no good answer. There's a reason WW84 didn't even acknowledge what Diana was doing (or not doing) after World War I ended.
She either tried to improve things and failed consistently, or felt it wasn't her place to interfere and limited their actions to punching bad guys, reducing her to a milquetoast defender of the status quo.

I don't like the idea of her going back to Themyscira for a couple of decades and then becoming Wonder Woman again in modern day. Because, again, that should be treated with actual gravity. Diana quitting or just packing it up to go home should be a big deal. Something making her decide to be Wonder Woman again should also be a big deal.

There are potentially compelling questions to confront Diana with. How long does she really plan on being Wonder Woman? If enough time went by, would the job or watching her friends and loved ones age wear on her, and if so, what would she do?
As it stands, the only stories off the top of my head to even come close to addressing this is New Frontier and (to an extent) Kingdom Come. Should either of those be the "main" Wonder Woman? Remember how a key part of Diana's arc in that story is how she gets burned out and frustrated with everything to the point where she considers quitting?

Again, that can make for a compelling Elseworlds take on Diana. But I think it's a bad idea to make it the mainline Wonder Woman.

And, finally, at the end of the day, what is gained by this? Why is it so important to have Wonder Woman around in World War II? Yeah, we all love watching her beat up Nazis, but newsflash: they haven't gone anywhere! White supremism and neo-Nazis still exist today!
So she can have the "bragging right" of being the "first superhero"...as if that makes any damn difference? Hooray, more meaningless lip service that won't make DC treat her any better!
So we boast about her unparalleled battle experience...as if it's going to stop her from getting jobbed out like a chump in any given issue of Justice League?

I just don't understand the insistence on anchoring her to the 1940's. If Wonder Woman must fight in World War II for nostalgia or whatever, keep it confined to Earth-2 or an Elseworld. The "main" Wonder Woman should be in the modern day like everyone else.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Wonder Woman debuting during the 40s messes up some key figures of her supporting cast and she doesn't really get anything that important in return because DC editors don't actually seem willing to truly explore what it would mean for her to have been around for so long and to remain an active hero to this day.
Since the Omniverse is such a big part of the post Death Metal DC, it would make way more sense to restore Earth-2 as the world where Diana was WW during WWII and leave Earth-0's Diana with a more recent origin like Year One's.

[I'm a Fish]

I'm just hoping they keep it to what they have now where she remembers certain events from the past Ages but they aren't the "cannon" events that happened on the Earth she currently lives in.

That way she has 80 years of memory/experience and none of it happened off panel that we can't go back and read.

That's about as "have your cake and eat it too" as you can get with this mess.

[Alpha]

I mean, remembering her actual history is kinda depressing considering how she was treated over the decades by other writers.

Imagine getting a rewritten history of Diana through the decades that explores all the stories we missed out on in the 60s and the 70s.

[I'm a Fish]

I mean, remembering her actual history is kinda depressing considering how she was treated over the decades by other writers.

Imagine getting a rewritten history of Diana through the decades that explores all the stories we missed out on in the 60s and the 70s.

The memories can be selective, since it has been so far anyway.

I don't really want decades long flashbacks in her present day ongoing.

[Alpha]

The memories can be selective, since it has been so far anyway.

I don't really want decades long flashbacks in her present day ongoing.

We have a back up story right now that is giving us Diana's backstory. Why couldn't we make it a long term anthology about Diana's exploits through her history.

[wonder39]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Wonder Woman debuting during the 40s messes up some key figures of her supporting cast and she doesn't really get anything that important in return because DC editors don't actually seem willing to truly explore what it would mean for her to have been around for so long and to remain an active hero to this day.
Since the Omniverse is such a big part of the post Death Metal DC, it would make way more sense to restore Earth-2 as the world where Diana was WW during WWII and leave Earth-0's Diana with a more recent origin like Year One's.

Doomsday Clock basically did that, but gods know if that is even still true since Death Metal seemed to eff everything up again...

DDC revealed that each reality altering event didnt destroy what came before, but splintered off a neww Earth with it's new reality, leaving what came before intact. So we all versions of Diana, each on it's own Earth.
Eath 2 Golden Age
Earth 1 Silver Bronze Age ( now called Earth 1985)
Earth Post Crisis
FlaspointbEarth
Earth 52
Earth Rebirth
Etc....

[Factor]

Doomsday Clock basically did that, but gods know if that is even still true since Death Metal seemed to eff everything up again...

DDC revealed that each reality altering event didnt destroy what came before, but splintered off a neww Earth with it's new reality, leaving what came before intact. So we all versions of Diana, each on it's own Earth.
Eath 2 Golden Age
Earth 1 Silver Bronze Age ( now called Earth 1985)
Earth Post Crisis
FlaspointbEarth
Earth 52
Earth Rebirth
Etc....

Yes, but DC need to actually do something with those Earths.
If they want WWII adventures, they could focus on Earth-2 instead of retconning Earth-0 yet again.
I hope Infinite Frontier can make them focus a bit more on the Omniverse, because there's tons of potential in exploring alternate Earths.

[Perseus]

To be fair... this whole thread is about a "what if scenario" because, from what I'm guessing, the solicits about Diana's adventures through the multiverse and her fighting her Earth #? male counter part in her golden age duds and that interview with Conrad right? Is there anything confirming that she's debuting in WW2 or is it just rumor?