Wonder Woman & the World Wars

[Alpha]

The poor execution of an idea doesn't turn it into a bad idea. It has a lot of potential if done right.

[Gaius]

Yeesh. So basically they were going to take Zack Snyder's original "walked away from mankind a hundred years ago" idea from Batman v. Superman and make it Diana's canon backstory in the comics.

Any bets on who would wind up being responsible for "inspiring" Diana to be Wonder Woman again? I'm going to guess it's the same guy that needed to tell her to protect civilians.

Just goes to show what bollocks the whole "first superhero" thing is.
Yeah, Wonder Woman was the first superhero...who then immediately quit, took her ball and went home, and stayed there until real heroes like Superman and Batman restored her faith in humanity. So, she might have come "first," but we all know who really matters.

It's a little distressing how--between the DCEU and apparently 5G--DC is/was determined to make being a quitter a critical part of Wonder Woman's backstory.
Captain America was frozen in ice. Wonder Woman gave up and went home.

Screw Cheetah. Screw Circe and Ares. Wonder Woman's true arch-nemesis is DC Comics.

Yeah, like others said the only way I could see Diana being active in both WW2 and present day working would be DC restructuring their history around and creating an entirely different world history from the 40s onwards. Which they are not going to do.

Other answers like time travel, WW Hippolyta, or "gave up on humanity" just come off as DC wanting their cake and eating it too.

[John Venus]

There is a third option: she loses her powers either down to a normal human level or average Amazon level and that's what prompts her to retire.

[Factor]

I was going to post this as a reply somewhere, but I figured it could be its own topic: I really hate Wonder Woman being involved with World War II (or WWI). And I don't think her first adventures should be in the distant past.

As a start, it makes a mess of her supporting cast. Mainly Steve, but Etta is she's one of the first friends Diana makes when she leaves Themyscira.
But more importantly, it creates a lot of issues with her character that, while admittedly could make an interesting Elseworld story, won't be treated with the gravity they deserve.

Regarding World War II itself...for one, I just don't understand the obsession with keeping her origin there. Hey, guess what, Superman and Batman also fought Nazis because that was the thing back in the 40's, but we don't see an insistence of keeping their origins there, do we?

More importantly, Diana's stated purpose, her mission, is to bring peace and improve the world. So if Wonder Woman participated in WWII...she failed. She failed as a peacemaker. She failed as a hero.
As much as we (as a country--the United States) love to mythologize WWII because it was the last "good" war with clearly defined "bad guys" that were defeated...there's still the attempted extermination of the Jews, the atrocities the Germans and Russians committed against each other during their fighting, the (arguably) unnecessary bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Among many other things 'cause, you know, it was a freaking war.

Captain America in WWII kind of gets by because he's just a soldier fighting battles and he's not as powerful. But, again, Wonder Woman's stated mission is to bring peace. I can't imagine Diana allowing that stuff to happen, nor do I see them letting politics stop her.

But then comes the bigger question of what the hell she's been doing in the decades since. Because if you have Diana first appear in one of the World Wars (or earlier) you then have to get her to modern times so she can interact with the characters we care about. And surprise, it winds up being a cheap hand-wave that doesn't consider the long-term ramifications of Diana being Wonder Woman that long.

If creators are going to make her hundreds of years old and/or active since one of the World Wars, they do need to acknowledge the toll it would take on her. But it seems like writers wish for a Captain America type of thing where she fought in a World War and we just jump to modern day, but Diana obviously doesn't have the frozen in ice bit...so they just gloss over the fact living for a hundred years and watching friends and loved ones age and die around her should affect Diana.

Then there's the question of what Diana's been doing in the decades since the war, because you have to reconcile how/why a lot of nasty crap happened despite her presence. And, guess what guys, there is no good answer. There's a reason WW84 didn't even acknowledge what Diana was doing (or not doing) after World War I ended.
She either tried to improve things and failed consistently, or felt it wasn't her place to interfere and limited their actions to punching bad guys, reducing her to a milquetoast defender of the status quo.

I don't like the idea of her going back to Themyscira for a couple of decades and then becoming Wonder Woman again in modern day. Because, again, that should be treated with actual gravity. Diana quitting or just packing it up to go home should be a big deal. Something making her decide to be Wonder Woman again should also be a big deal.

There are potentially compelling questions to confront Diana with. How long does she really plan on being Wonder Woman? If enough time went by, would the job or watching her friends and loved ones age wear on her, and if so, what would she do?
As it stands, the only stories off the top of my head to even come close to addressing this is New Frontier and (to an extent) Kingdom Come. Should either of those be the "main" Wonder Woman? Remember how a key part of Diana's arc in that story is how she gets burned out and frustrated with everything to the point where she considers quitting?

Again, that can make for a compelling Elseworlds take on Diana. But I think it's a bad idea to make it the mainline Wonder Woman.

And, finally, at the end of the day, what is gained by this? Why is it so important to have Wonder Woman around in World War II? Yeah, we all love watching her beat up Nazis, but newsflash: they haven't gone anywhere! White supremism and neo-Nazis still exist today!
So she can have the "bragging right" of being the "first superhero"...as if that makes any damn difference? Hooray, more meaningless lip service that won't make DC treat her any better!
So we boast about her unparalleled battle experience...as if it's going to stop her from getting jobbed out like a chump in any given issue of Justice League?

I just don't understand the insistence on anchoring her to the 1940's. If Wonder Woman must fight in World War II for nostalgia or whatever, keep it confined to Earth-2 or an Elseworld. The "main" Wonder Woman should be in the modern day like everyone else.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Wonder Woman debuting during the 40s messes up some key figures of her supporting cast and she doesn't really get anything that important in return because DC editors don't actually seem willing to truly explore what it would mean for her to have been around for so long and to remain an active hero to this day.
Since the Omniverse is such a big part of the post Death Metal DC, it would make way more sense to restore Earth-2 as the world where Diana was WW during WWII and leave Earth-0's Diana with a more recent origin like Year One's.

[I'm a Fish]

I'm just hoping they keep it to what they have now where she remembers certain events from the past Ages but they aren't the "cannon" events that happened on the Earth she currently lives in.

That way she has 80 years of memory/experience and none of it happened off panel that we can't go back and read.

That's about as "have your cake and eat it too" as you can get with this mess.

[Alpha]

I mean, remembering her actual history is kinda depressing considering how she was treated over the decades by other writers.

Imagine getting a rewritten history of Diana through the decades that explores all the stories we missed out on in the 60s and the 70s.

[I'm a Fish]

I mean, remembering her actual history is kinda depressing considering how she was treated over the decades by other writers.

Imagine getting a rewritten history of Diana through the decades that explores all the stories we missed out on in the 60s and the 70s.

The memories can be selective, since it has been so far anyway.

I don't really want decades long flashbacks in her present day ongoing.

[DABellWrites]

For me, they keep throwing Wonder Woman (the character) back to WW2 and not understanding why these stories were popular to begin with. Wonder Woman is the only long-publishing character that keeps getting slapped back to WW2 every so often. Honestly, it's a pointless trope at this point. Keep it in the elseworld stories, not main canon.

There shouldn't be a mainline story where Diana loses faith or walks away, that's not her character. Wonder Woman doesn't give up, she doesn't quit. She's going to do keep on fighting until the world is changed for the better. That's the character. Trying to make her "inspired" again is utterly stupid. It's a betrayal of what was established for Wonder Woman.
I'll be okay with the Captain America treatment, frozen in time or something like that. But, nothing else. Yeah, I'm one of those guys when it comes to superheroes. If I want a story where Wonder Woman walks away from the fight, I'd read (or make ) a pastiche or elseworld. But, in DC Comics? No. Diana doesn't stop or give up. It's funny, Superman can be around for a good decade or his whole life, but he's always written as the one who doesn't stop or give up.

As for using the concept in an elseworld, I'm conflicted. I believe an elseworld should stick to what's established in main canon for the character. So, for me, elseworlds aren't free-for-alls. If I read an elseworld, I want to read the character. Which is why Gods and Monsters didn't do it for me. It strays too far from the path of Batman and Wonder Woman. Even Superman. But, I think the idea is very interesting for Wonder Woman. To ask the question, why would Diana lose faith in humanity? Very interesting question to explore, probably better than [I]Kingdom Come[./I], but in the end. Diana needs to return to the reinvigorated to push humanity back to the right path. It can be a very human story, that we need a break from the ongoing chaotic nature that is humanity. That we need to realign our values or heal.

(Edit: read more of the thread, wanted to chime in on the discussion with her being from WW2.)

[Alpha]

The memories can be selective, since it has been so far anyway.

I don't really want decades long flashbacks in her present day ongoing.

We have a back up story right now that is giving us Diana's backstory. Why couldn't we make it a long term anthology about Diana's exploits through her history.

[Alpha]

There shouldn't be a mainline story where Diana loses faith or walks away, that's not her character. Wonder Woman doesn't give up, she doesn't quit. She's going to do keep on fighting until the world is changed for the better. That's the character. Trying to make her "inspired" again is utterly stupid. It's a betrayal of what was established for Wonder Woman.

I agree, and that has nothing to do with the concept of Wonder Woman arriving in man's world during WW2. Zack Snyder had that idea that Diana gave up on humanity, and it seems like 5G also intended to do something like that, but it's not necessary.

We could totally have a long history of Diana leaving an imprint in the real world, just like she did with the feminist movement. You wouldn't even have to make the history of the DC universe that different.

[DABellWrites]

But, again, I just don't like how putting Wonder Woman in the past glosses over a lot of her development.
I would rather see her deal with the reality she, as an immortal, will outlive her non-Amazon friends and loved ones in the now. I would rather see her deal with the frustration that comes with trying to change a stubborn and flawed world in the now. If she was to lose faith in humanity and eventually regain her idealism, I want to see it as it happens.

Diana will always have Clark to adventure with. Also Barry and J'onn. A whole host of others too.

[DABellWrites]

I agree, and that has nothing to do with the concept of Wonder Woman arriving in man's world during WW2. Zack Snyder had that idea that Diana gave up on humanity, and it seems like 5G also intended to do something like that, but it's not necessary.

Not to mention that Snyder has always intended for Diana to just go back to Paradise Island after everything is over. Like, she just leaves. It's like Snyder had little interest in investing time or effort in the character. I don't get why DC and Marvel bows down to Hollywood so much?

We could totally have a long history of Diana leaving an imprint in the real world, just like she did with the feminist movement. You wouldn't even have to make the history of the DC universe that different.

You'd think that, but DC doesn't want to push Wonder Woman that hard.

[Agent Z]

What Wonder Woman would not do and what she has never been written as doing before are two different things.

[bat39]

Yeesh. So basically they were going to take Zack Snyder's original "walked away from mankind a hundred years ago" idea from Batman v. Superman and make it Diana's canon backstory in the comics.

Any bets on who would wind up being responsible for "inspiring" Diana to be Wonder Woman again? I'm going to guess it's the same guy that needed to tell her to protect civilians.

Just goes to show what bollocks the whole "first superhero" thing is.
Yeah, Wonder Woman was the first superhero...who then immediately quit, took her ball and went home, and stayed there until real heroes like Superman and Batman restored her faith in humanity. So, she might have come "first," but we all know who really matters.

It's a little distressing how--between the DCEU and apparently 5G--DC is/was determined to make being a quitter a critical part of Wonder Woman's backstory.
Captain America was frozen in ice. Wonder Woman gave up and went home.

Screw Cheetah. Screw Circe and Ares. Wonder Woman's true arch-nemesis is DC Comics.

I don't think it necessarily has to be as negative as you make it out to be. There are ways to frame this narrative better.

Diana choosing to leave Man's World after Hiroshima and Nagasaki doesn't make her a ''quitter'' in the pejorative way we use the word. She can choose to take a principled stance against her erstwhile allies. Or she can realize that while she can help defend Man's World from mystical threats and help out in their wars, she can't really force Man's World to evolve...they need to figure things out for themselves, and sadly, destructive wars are a part of that process. Or maybe she was on Man's World a limited mission to end WW2 and when the war was over, and not the way she liked, she saw no reason to stay (assuming she didn't sign on to be a permanent ''superhero''). Or she just wanted to go back home, and Hippolyta gave her a chance to return. There are any number of good explanations.

As for why she returns? She scrupulously stays out of future wars and human conflicts, but when Ares threatens Man's World, or Darkseid, or some other major threat, she decides to return to stop it. And yes, the presence of other heroes like Superman and the rest of the Justice League could motivate her to stay.

I'm not even getting into the issue of which era Steve Trevor belongs to. And hell, for all we know there's some kind of memory wipe or timey-wimey shenanigans involved too. My point is that you can tell a good story explaining the gap.

[Agent Z]

I don't think it necessarily has to be as negative as you make it out to be. There are ways to frame this narrative better.

Diana choosing to leave Man's World after Hiroshima and Nagasaki doesn't make her a ''quitter'' in the pejorative way we use the word. She can choose to take a principled stance against her erstwhile allies. Or she can realize that while she can help defend Man's World from mystical threats and help out in their wars, she can't really force Man's World to evolve...they need to figure things out for themselves, and sadly, destructive wars are a part of that process. Or maybe she was on Man's World a limited mission to end WW2 and when the war was over, and not the way she liked, she saw no reason to stay (assuming she didn't sign on to be a permanent ''superhero''). Or she just wanted to go back home, and Hippolyta gave her a chance to return. There are any number of good explanations.

As for why she returns? She scrupulously stays out of future wars and human conflicts, but when Ares threatens Man's World, or Darkseid, or some other major threat, she decides to return to stop it. And yes, the presence of other heroes like Superman and the rest of the Justice League could motivate her to stay.

I'm not even getting into the issue of which era Steve Trevor belongs to. And hell, for all we know there's some kind of memory wipe or timey-wimey shenanigans involved too. My point is that you can tell a good story explaining the gap.

Very well put.