X-Factor 10 preview Hellfire Gala

[Anduinel]

What A-Listers were left by the time the later waves came out, though? The first wave was front-loaded with popular characters. Even if they were barely being utilized in their own books, like Storm, Gambit, and Jean, they were technically spoken for. And Nightcrawler was being held in reserve for the book Way of X became. Ewing, Williams, and Wells have had to do their best with what was left.

[ChronoRogue]

What A-Listers were left by the time the later waves came out, though? The first wave was front-loaded with popular characters. Even if they were barely being utilized in their own books, like Storm, Gambit, and Jean, they were technically spoken for. And Nightcrawler was being held in reserve for the book Way of X became. Ewing, Williams, and Wells have had to do their best with what was left.

Cyclops. Hickman was using him, sort of, but a lot of characters were double-dipped in that book.

Mystique. The only significant play she's gotten is in short stints during X-Men. She could've been on a team this whole time before Inferno came into play.

Blink. While I doubt most people recognize her as popular, her solo sales from 2000 matched or beat some of the current A-list cast in terms of sales (Shadowcat, Psylocke, Jubilee) at like 42k. Probably one of the reasons the original Exiles lasted as long as it did.

Moving away from characters who have had solo titles, there are still plenty of characters who are B or C list but have proven to be able to sustain titles

Multiple Man, Monet, Strong Guy, Siryn, etc... most of PADs cast were just sitting around until Tini started X-Corp and those characters, while not A-list, managed to keep that title alive for many years. PAD writing helped but they were recognizable enough.

Some of the more popular New X-Men seem to have star power. Not Eye-Boy but Surge, Hellion, Pixie, Anole and Rockslide were able to have decent sales up until Messiah Complex with Academy X and New X-Men.

There were plenty of options to add more recognizable characters. And honestly, if some of the first wave of characters weren't being utilized they should've been moved to another book (ie Howard's cast).

[Journey]

It was just brought to my attention the artist for the Prodigy & Speed page is also the same one for Trial of Magneto, which is also being written by Leah correct, & it seems Tommy got snuck in by Eye Boy meaning he's not supposed to be there, & if anyone was equally relevant/irrelevant enough to get killed & leave an impact it would be Tommy. I'm kinda worried for my boy just a tad.

[Anduinel]

Cyclops. Hickman was using him, sort of, but a lot of characters were double-dipped in that book.

Mystique. The only significant play she's gotten is in short stints during X-Men. She could've been on a team this whole time before Inferno came into play.

Blink. While I doubt most people recognize her as popular, her solo sales from 2000 matched or beat some of the current A-list cast in terms of sales (Shadowcat, Psylocke, Jubilee) at like 42k. Probably one of the reasons the original Exiles lasted as long as it did.

Moving away from characters who have had solo titles, there are still plenty of characters who are B or C list but have proven to be able to sustain titles

Multiple Man, Monet, Strong Guy, Siryn, etc... most of PADs cast were just sitting around until Tini started X-Corp and those characters, while not A-list, managed to keep that title alive for many years. PAD writing helped but they were recognizable enough.

Some of the more popular New X-Men seem to have star power. Not Eye-Boy but Surge, Hellion, Pixie, Anole and Rockslide were able to have decent sales up until Messiah Complex with Academy X and New X-Men.

There were plenty of options to add more recognizable characters. And honestly, if some of the first wave of characters weren't being utilized they should've been moved to another book (ie Howard's cast).

One A-lister of questionable availability (being used by Hickman in the flagship), one villain who's obviously a lynchpin character for Hickman (again, questionable availability), and characters that were mid-list successful in a different market almost two decades ago. I'm not seeing any saviors there, especially given how X-Corp seems to have belly-flopped out of the gate even utilizing some of those listed. I do agree that letting other writers bogart more popular characters they seem intent on using as wallpaper isn't a good use of resources, but that's on editorial.

[ChronoRogue]

One A-lister of questionable availability (being used by Hickman in the flagship), one villain who's obviously a lynchpin character for Hickman (again, questionable availability), and characters that were mid-list successful in a different market two decades ago. I'm not seeing any saviors there, especially given how X-Corp seems to have belly-flopped out of the gate even utilizing some of those listed. I do agree that letting other writers bogart more popular characters they seem intent on using as wallpaper isn't a good use of resources, but that's on editorial.

If Wolverine can show up in his own solo and in X-Force, I don't see the issue of Cyclops being used in another book.

As for villain being used as a lynch pin, Mystique appeared in how many issues since HoX? She's only barely getting utilized.

Also I find your comment about them selling decently two decades ironic, considering comic fans have shown to be stubborn and rarely pick up anything new, so isn't the whole point of reliability showing that something worked during that market? If anything the 00s market is closet to our current one's, since in the 10's the X-line heavily reduced the number of titles and it's not until Hix-Man that we even reach this far into X-Men roster. As for X-Corp, Tini's using Monet, Angel and Multiple Man; not exactly PADs full stable or cast.

[Anduinel]

If Wolverine can show up in his own solo and in X-Force, I don't see the issue of Cyclops being used in another book.

That's been Wolverine's status for ages - he makes $$$ so he gets special dispensation to pop up wherever. And even with that, it's usual for characters to be allowed on a team and a solo book, if they have a solo going. But we're not talking about a Cyclops solo, we're talking about him being on two team books, which isn't typically allowed for whatever reason.

As for villain being used as a lynch pin, Mystique appeared in how many issues since HoX? She's only barely getting utilized.

But Hickman clearly has plans for her, hence the likely dibs and questionable availability.

Also I find your comment about them selling decently two decades ironic, considering comic fans have shown to be stubborn and rarely pick up anything new, so isn't the whole point of reliability showing that something worked during that market? If anything the 00s market is closet to our current one's, since in the 10's the X-line heavily reduced the number of titles and it's not until Hix-Man that we even reach this far into X-Men roster.

Having a similar amount of titles out as a previous era doesn't mean the market will support them in the same way, especially given the recent disruptions, and, more long term, the X-Men's diminished media presence over the last ten years.

As for X-Corp, Tini's using Monet, Angel and Multiple Man; not exactly PADs full stable or cast.

It's possible a PAD nostalgia book without PAD might have had more initial interest, but that's still not exactly a strong selling point. It's the kind of thing that gets a book, maybe, twelve issues instead of ten (assuming the decision to cancel didn't ultimately come down to the gala timing). Satellite titles traditionally struggle to find an audience, and this one had to deal with more disruptions than most. I don't think swapping out one cast of C-List and belows for another would have bought it much more time - a steady schedule and the inclusion of Rogue or Storm or anyone with recognizable cover presence would have done it a lot more favors.

[Exodus]

https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1400867701061472259

that page is everything! Love this friendship. Two queer boys having a good time. So rare to see queer kin in comicbooks.

[ChronoRogue]

That's been Wolverine's status for ages - he makes $$$ so he gets special dispensation to pop up wherever. And even with that, it's usual for characters to be allowed on a team and a solo book, if they have a solo going. But we're not talking about a Cyclops solo, we're talking about him being on two team books, which isn't typically allowed for whatever reason.

I'm aware, my main point was that X-Men as a book had a rotating cast and Cyclops wasn't used in every issue, so what was the point of chaining or claiming it was his book, when he was inconsistently used in it.

But Hickman clearly has plans for her, hence the likely dibs and questionable availability.

Hickman has plans for a bunch of characters, that doesn't stop Sinister from appearing in Hellions, Magneto from appearing in SWORD and didn't stop Storm from appearing in Marauders until recently despite Hickman claiming there was "plans in the works" for like a year and a half.

Having a similar amount of titles out as a previous era doesn't mean the market will support them in the same way, especially given the recent disruptions, and, more long term, the X-Men's diminished media presence over the last ten years.

It's the best comparison we have.

No market is going to be the same but as an editor and as a writer, you should be making smart decisions to be able to juggle a cast and produce a successful book. That means at times choosing characters that have shown to be successful in previous eras. For all that I dislike Excalibur, Tini clearly knew that to write the Betsy and Apocalypse story she wanted, she needed star power to hook in sales. Clearly that marketing background did come in handy, because she fluffed up her cast to write her stealth Betsy solo book.

It's possible a PAD nostalgia book without PAD might have had more initial interest, but that's still not exactly a strong selling point. It's the kind of thing that gets a book, maybe, twelve issues instead of ten (assuming the decision to cancel didn't ultimately come down to the gala timing). Satellite titles traditionally struggle to find an audience, and this one had to deal with more disruptions than most. I don't think swapping out one cast of C-List and belows for another would have bought it much more time - a steady schedule and the inclusion of Rogue or Storm or anyone with recognizable cover presence would have done it a lot more favors.

I think you're simplifying the issue by labeling all those characters I listed as C list, as if certain characters didn't have their audiences and likely were what held up certain titles.

I'll bring up Domino again, her 2018 title sold like 89k. Does that seem like a character you would normally associate with star power? I wouldn't but clearly the market has not been tested enough with certain underused characters because too often we group up all non-movie characters in one box and dismiss them when they help titles perform. I think the New Mutants cast also don't get enough credit most times, they get labeled as varsity league but clearly a handful were able to support 50+ issue runs; to say nothing of the current run also being one of the few to make it past 20 issues.

[Anduinel]

I'm aware, my main point was that X-Men as a book had a rotating cast and Cyclops wasn't used in every issue, so what was the point of chaining or claiming it was his book, when he was inconsistently used in it.

Cyclops is one of the leads of the flagship; not appearing in every issue doesn't negate that. I'm not saying that I agree with how the more popular characters have been parceled out, but that appears to be a rule the X-Office continues to operate under.

Hickman has plans for a bunch of characters, that doesn't stop Sinister from appearing in Hellions, Magneto from appearing in SWORD and didn't stop Storm from appearing in Marauders until recently despite Hickman claiming there was "plans in the works" for like a year and a half.

Like Xavier, Magneto makes appearances in most of the books, but isn't relegated to any one roster. Sinister and Storm have/had primary assignments on permanent rosters. Mystique is in neither camp - despite being one of the most popular villains of the franchise, she is neither on a roster nor seems to be up for general use. She appears to be almost entirely under Hickman's purview. Whether it's to build tension in her presumed role in Krakoa's coming destruction or some other reason, he's keeping her close to the vest.

It's the best comparison we have.

No market is going to be the same but as an editor and as a writer, you should be making smart decisions to be able to juggle a cast and produce a successful book. That means at times choosing characters that have shown to be successful in previous eras. For all that I dislike Excalibur, Tini clearly knew that to write the Betsy and Apocalypse story she wanted, she needed star power to hook in sales. Clearly that marketing background did come in handy, because she fluffed up her cast to write her stealth Betsy solo book.

More likely, she was told to include certain characters. The characters a writer wants to use and the characters the editor suggests they use don't always have a lot of overlap. But the end result is the same in any event - the choice was made to put the majority of popular characters in the first wave of books.

I think you're simplifying the issue by labeling all those characters I listed as C list, as if certain characters didn't have their audiences and likely were what held up certain titles.

I'm aware that you're arguing that the XFI cast is greater than the sum of its parts. I just don't agree that relaunching an X-Factor book with a partial XFI cast minus the writer who made it such an unexpectedly long-lived series would have gotten appreciably better results.

I'll bring up Domino again, her 2018 title sold like 89k. Does that seem like a character you would normally associate with star power? I wouldn't but clearly the market has not been tested enough with certain underused characters because too often we group up all non-movie characters in one box and dismiss them when they help titles perform.

Domino got a solo to capitalize on the character's inclusion in Deadpool 2. Retailers would not have ordered so heavily if not for her association and prominent inclusion in the advertising for the movie.

No one's dismissing the characters who don't get a lot of spotlight. Most readers have their favorites who fall into that category. But, though fan faves can certainly keep a book going, that's a lot easier to do when there's more star power included on the roster alongside them.

[Will Evans]

What A-Listers were left by the time the later waves came out, though? The first wave was front-loaded with popular characters. Even if they were barely being utilized in their own books, like Storm, Gambit, and Jean, they were technically spoken for. And Nightcrawler was being held in reserve for the book Way of X became. Ewing, Williams, and Wells have had to do their best with what was left.

Daken had a solo run, don’t forget. Plus he’s got the “Wolverine family” factor.

[PhoenixThanos]

Yes Speed is bisexual.

Also keep in mind that 2 of Mar-Vell’s children are gay: Hulkling and Phyla.

Another thing to keep in mind. Vision used Wanda’s brain patterns as the template for his android wife Virginia.
Vision and Virginia then did a “mixture” of their brain patterns together to make Viv.
And Viv is a lesbian as well. So the three siblings are gay (Wiccan), lesbian (Viv) and bisexual (Tommy)

Interesting, I had absolutely no idea.

[Mirai]

I completely forgot about Viv being a lesbian.

Awwww Speed is here

I'm going to miss this book so much

[RamaBird]

X-Factor isn't cancelled cause of lack of A-listers, it's cancelled because there are too many X-books! Excalibur and XFactor aren't sticking around because they have A-listers (Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee, Colossus fans sure aren't the ones buying a book that doesn't even feature them. what's the point of A-listers when they're not even used and instead used badly?), those books are around because they established themselves early on as supplemental books to the XMen, something books that came out later haven't been able to do.

[Kingdom X]

X-Factor isn't cancelled cause of lack of A-listers, it's cancelled because there are too many X-books! Excalibur and XFactor aren't sticking around because they have A-listers (Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee, Colossus fans sure aren't the ones buying a book that doesn't even feature them. what's the point of A-listers when they're not even used and instead used badly?), those books are around because they established themselves early on as supplemental books to the XMen, something books that came out later haven't been able to do.

This is an interesting point. I often wonder as to why X-Factor wasn’t in the first wave because it’s a pretty traditional satellite title and it’s not like it needed any setup like Way of X or SWORD.

[JB]

This is an interesting point. I often wonder as to why X-Factor wasn’t in the first wave because it’s a pretty traditional satellite title and it’s not like it needed any setup like Way of X or SWORD.

Agreed. A book about resurrections would have been well received right at the beginning imo.