Inhumans vs. X-Men: Anatomy of a Failed (and Dumb) Rivalry - A mini-Documentary

[Killerbee911]

TO be FAIR-he was.

They did not own all the rights and he wanted them to invest in who they owned.

Now how it was done was WRONG.

That is one of the things that makes this topic hard to talk people view "The Mutants" and "X-men" as the same thing. Marvel clearly tried to replace mutants and went as far as deemphasizing the X-men in the process. Some times people forget that anything new and cool Marvel did with X-men that Fox would own it so if they had made Kamala Khan and Moon Girl mutants Fox would own it and Marvel would have to get permission from Fox to use those characters. Absolutely some things were done wrong but pushing Inhumans as a power system was not one of them. MCU would need "a power system" if Fox had still owned mutants and Inhumans was a good fit, You just have to play the Avengers game and you could see how Inhumans are a good stand-in to give people powers if you aren't using mutants.

Again no doubt they did things to hurt the X-men on purpose but with Fox owning the X-men and mutants what was Marvel suppose to do? heavily invest into something that they couldn't take advantage on the big screen? Create new storylines and characters for Fox to use them on the big screen? How much they intend to hurt "The X-men" I would love some real clarity about this era how far where they willing to devalue the property in order to hurt fox but everything else made simple business sense switch the power system and only emphasize the core X-men properties and characters minimize reach in the big picture of Marvel, push the Avengers and properties that you had control and make sure the storyline and new characters go through that system, not through the mutants giving control to Fox.

[Pumpkin King]

I cannot argue with concentrating on the properties Marvel could sell and make money on, but trying to turn the Inhumans into the X-Men was a boneheaded move. Then, to push that cheap TV show into theaters, it was just compounding the mistake.

It was like the zeal to “punish” Fox or try to find some leverage over Fox blinded Perlmutter and whoever was supporting his ideas to the damage they were doing.

There could have been a place for Inhumans in the MCU, but as part of a plan for the Inhumans, not for replacing X-Men.

Same with the comics. The Inhumans have had some great books, but a publishing initiative to literally poison the X-Men and mutants, with gas clouds, and have Inhumans or “NuHumans” become the next big thing was bound to upset fans. I wonder if the editors pushed these things to actually sabotage the Inhumans. When writing these things out, the ugliness and absurdity of the plot staggers. It was like it was designed to alienate the fans.

Obviously, Marvel has a lot of other things to sell, but it is going to take some work to get the Inhumans ready for public consumption again. It’s a very small shame, because the Inhumans do have some cool things about them. They’re not X-Men or even Avengers. Hopefully, Marvel in the future figures out what was good and fun about the Inhumans, again, and they’ll get another chance at the bigtime again.

I actually sincerely wonder where the "Terrigen cloud kills mutants" storyline originated. Especially since that dynamic didn't exist prior to Secret Wars. Maximus and Black Bolt detonated the Terrigen bomb to make a bunch of new Inhumans, and it appeared to have no affect what-so-ever on the X-Men. Then after Secret Wars, suddenly it's a poison cloud.

Was it editors looking to push mutants aside and reduce their numbers so that new Inhuman characters could take the spotlight? Was it someone's bright idea for a new X-Men storyline? They've certainly done "mutants in danger of extinction" stories before, with the Legacy Virus, Decimation, the massacre of mutants on Genosha, etc., so were the X-writers/editors just in need of a new crisis? Or did editors/higher-ups want a plot device to force the two groups to fight so that they could have their big IvX cross-over event? I will say, the Inhuman books at the time seemed largely uninterested in the mutant Terrigen sickness. They were telling their own stories mostly unrelated to mutants, so from the perspective of an Inhumans reader at the time, it actually felt like an X-Men story derailing the Inhumans comics. I'm sure for X-Men readers, it felt like the exact opposite.

[Glio]

Trying to make Inhumans popular by turning them against the X-Men is such a clumsy thing that I'd believe you if you told me it was internal sabotage by the writers.

[carmoc1234]

Trying to make Inhumans popular by turning them against the X-Men is such a clumsy thing that I'd believe you if you told me it was internal sabotage by the writers.

yea its the oddest part of the whole thing. everything else makes some kind of sense in making them less relevant. no appearances in other media like games and cartoons, removal from merchandise and promotional material. then they decide to include them in the storyline with the group they were trying to replace them with, where they get gassed to death.

[Askani's Flame]

I actually sincerely wonder where the "Terrigen cloud kills mutants" storyline originated. Especially since that dynamic didn't exist prior to Secret Wars. Maximus and Black Bolt detonated the Terrigen bomb to make a bunch of new Inhumans, and it appeared to have no affect what-so-ever on the X-Men. Then after Secret Wars, suddenly it's a poison cloud.

Was it editors looking to push mutants aside and reduce their numbers so that new Inhuman characters could take the spotlight? Was it someone's bright idea for a new X-Men storyline? They've certainly done "mutants in danger of extinction" stories before, with the Legacy Virus, Decimation, the massacre of mutants on Genosha, etc., so were the X-writers/editors just in need of a new crisis? Or did editors/higher-ups want a plot device to force the two groups to fight so that they could have their big IvX cross-over event? I will say, the Inhuman books at the time seemed largely uninterested in the mutant Terrigen sickness. They were telling their own stories mostly unrelated to mutants, so from the perspective of an Inhumans reader at the time, it actually felt like an X-Men story derailing the Inhumans comics. I'm sure for X-Men readers, it felt like the exact opposite.

I *THINK* that executives were already plotting and planning how they were going to downplay mutants and elevate the Inhumans. I almost feel like Secret Wars provided the perfect backdrop for the executives to launch this marketing ploy. Hence the major change in status between Uncanny X-Men 600 and Extraordinary. Having a universe breaking event that rewrites reality in ways allowed the editors to have some excuse as to why the Terrigen Cloud had been around for almost a year in comics with no adverse reaction to death and pestilence. "Reality was rewritten and it changed the Cloud". Not that many bought that (it's not a direct quote), but it allowed them to move forward Ike's plan. While it was doomed to fail, the idea that Cyclops was evil and Hitler and committed an atrocity against the Inhumans that all of the X-Men condemned him BUT NOT SHOWING WHAT HAPPENED just killed the plan from the start. I honestly feel bad for some of the editors and writers because they received the brunt of the hate from readers, where it's really the executives that came out unscathed until they lost money on their gambit.

Also I till find it interesting that in looking at how the MCU reacts to mutant settlements or cities over the years vs New Attilan. Genosha, Utopia, and Krakoa have generally been viewed as problematic or "forced" by the MCU. But Attilan crashing into New York and then them colonizing an existing area and the Inhumans claiming sovereignty was acceptable to everyone. The sheer amount of "looking the other way" that was given to the Inhumans leading to IvX but has yet to be given to Krakoans is fascinating yet not surprising.

[Pumpkin King]

I *THINK* that executives were already plotting and planning how they were going to downplay mutants and elevate the Inhumans. I almost feel like Secret Wars provided the perfect backdrop for the executives to launch this marketing ploy. Hence the major change in status between Uncanny X-Men 600 and Extraordinary. Having a universe breaking event that rewrites reality in ways allowed the editors to have some excuse as to why the Terrigen Cloud had been around for almost a year in comics with no adverse reaction to death and pestilence. "Reality was rewritten and it changed the Cloud". Not that many bought that (it's not a direct quote), but it allowed them to move forward Ike's plan. While it was doomed to fail, the idea that Cyclops was evil and Hitler and committed an atrocity against the Inhumans that all of the X-Men condemned him BUT NOT SHOWING WHAT HAPPENED just killed the plan from the start. I honestly feel bad for some of the editors and writers because they received the brunt of the hate from readers, where it's really the executives that came out unscathed until they lost money on their gambit.

Also I till find it interesting that in looking at how the MCU reacts to mutant settlements or cities over the years vs New Attilan. Genosha, Utopia, and Krakoa have generally been viewed as problematic or "forced" by the MCU. But Attilan crashing into New York and then them colonizing an existing area and the Inhumans claiming sovereignty was acceptable to everyone. The sheer amount of "looking the other way" that was given to the Inhumans leading to IvX but has yet to be given to Krakoans is fascinating yet not surprising.

That thing with Cyclops was such a funny disconnect between the books. In the X-Men books, they're all taking about him like he's mutant Hitler. In the Inhumans books, they barely talk about him at all, even though he supposedly committed some atrocity against them. Then Death of X comes around, and it turns out that what he actually did was......destroy one of the Terrigen clouds that was killing his people? That's the big crime that caused his fellow mutants to turn on him? Really?

[Baron of Faltine]

I *THINK* that executives were already plotting and planning how they were going to downplay mutants and elevate the Inhumans. I almost feel like Secret Wars provided the perfect backdrop for the executives to launch this marketing ploy. Hence the major change in status between Uncanny X-Men 600 and Extraordinary. Having a universe breaking event that rewrites reality in ways allowed the editors to have some excuse as to why the Terrigen Cloud had been around for almost a year in comics with no adverse reaction to death and pestilence. "Reality was rewritten and it changed the Cloud". Not that many bought that (it's not a direct quote), but it allowed them to move forward Ike's plan. While it was doomed to fail, the idea that Cyclops was evil and Hitler and committed an atrocity against the Inhumans that all of the X-Men condemned him BUT NOT SHOWING WHAT HAPPENED just killed the plan from the start. I honestly feel bad for some of the editors and writers because they received the brunt of the hate from readers, where it's really the executives that came out unscathed until they lost money on their gambit.

Also I till find it interesting that in looking at how the MCU reacts to mutant settlements or cities over the years vs New Attilan. Genosha, Utopia, and Krakoa have generally been viewed as problematic or "forced" by the MCU. But Attilan crashing into New York and then them colonizing an existing area and the Inhumans claiming sovereignty was acceptable to everyone. The sheer amount of "looking the other way" that was given to the Inhumans leading to IvX but has yet to be given to Krakoans is fascinating yet not surprising.

I always fond baffling how everyone was all nice and dandy with inhumans , acting WAAAAAYYY more cold and aggressive than mutants, literally droping down in New york creating an enclave, menacing war and at times kidnapping american citizens they wnat to join inhuman culture or not. Was too weird.

[AnakinFlair]

I actually sincerely wonder where the "Terrigen cloud kills mutants" storyline originated. Especially since that dynamic didn't exist prior to Secret Wars. Maximus and Black Bolt detonated the Terrigen bomb to make a bunch of new Inhumans, and it appeared to have no affect what-so-ever on the X-Men. Then after Secret Wars, suddenly it's a poison cloud.

Was it editors looking to push mutants aside and reduce their numbers so that new Inhuman characters could take the spotlight? Was it someone's bright idea for a new X-Men storyline? They've certainly done "mutants in danger of extinction" stories before, with the Legacy Virus, Decimation, the massacre of mutants on Genosha, etc., so were the X-writers/editors just in need of a new crisis? Or did editors/higher-ups want a plot device to force the two groups to fight so that they could have their big IvX cross-over event? I will say, the Inhuman books at the time seemed largely uninterested in the mutant Terrigen sickness. They were telling their own stories mostly unrelated to mutants, so from the perspective of an Inhumans reader at the time, it actually felt like an X-Men story derailing the Inhumans comics. I'm sure for X-Men readers, it felt like the exact opposite.

You just put something into perspective for me.

Disney gets the movie rights to all the Mutant characters, and suddenly all Mutants have a homeland and a process to resurrect every dead mutant ever.

Don't know why it took me so long to figure that out.

[skyvolt2000]

Was it editors looking to push mutants aside and reduce their numbers so that new Inhuman characters could take the spotlight? Was it someone's bright idea for a new X-Men storyline? They've certainly done "mutants in danger of extinction" stories before, with the Legacy Virus, Decimation, the massacre of mutants on Genosha, etc., so were the X-writers/editors just in need of a new crisis? Or did editors/higher-ups want a plot device to force the two groups to fight so that they could have their big IvX cross-over event? I will say, the Inhuman books at the time seemed largely uninterested in the mutant Terrigen sickness. They were telling their own stories mostly unrelated to mutants, so from the perspective of an Inhumans reader at the time, it actually felt like an X-Men story derailing the Inhumans comics. I'm sure for X-Men readers, it felt like the exact opposite.

If one set of books was ignoring that falls on the editors for even bothering with it. In fact only one book did mention that cloud and that was All New Inhumans and it was a Flint story about his real family.

That falls on them because if they wanted to do it-all books should have been on the same page.

If one side was not interested-then the other should not have been. So that falls on the X-office for derailing the franchise with that. If Axel had an issue with it-he was the man in charge-he should have plotted out a respectable solution not the mess that we saw.

Instead of alienating a fanbase by implying they can't have books while pandering to the other.

Last time I checked neither franchise has to interact with each other. So there should not be any fighting and if there were-Marvel needs to have the guts to stop it.

[Force de Phenix]

[...] Feige didn't wanted the movie. it really came from top to bottom and I think editors/writers weren't prepared to do a good job.

Because Feige really wanted to do Ant-Man 2 instead of the inhumans, because that's where they were supposed to go.

I don't mind the Inhumans, but it's the 21st century, and it's not gonna fly to make a story about a bunch of anti-democratic white monarchist eugenicists who live in their own little enclave with a caste of slaves doing their scut-work. They've gotten rid of the slaves (back in the 80s), and tried to use the T-mists and introduction of new cities like Utolan and characters like Jiaying to open the concept up to other ethnicities [...]

They became a democracy at the end of IvX. There was always only 5 inhumans that were visible in comics and the first 5 X-Men were all white too. Every time they mention eugenics and the slave cast, it was to teach a moral and tell the reader it was bad. They never tried to promote those things. Do you think Jack Kirby invented the Alphas to promote slavery in his books? All of the new inhumans were POC because it made sense.

Was it editors looking to push mutants aside and reduce their numbers so that new Inhuman characters could take the spotlight? Was it someone's bright idea for a new X-Men storyline?

They had just brought back mutants two years before after like a decade at the end of AvX. This was temporary. They weren't going to backtrack. People forget that they made new mutant characters and that DoX and IvX are actually X-Men events.

Also I till find it interesting that in looking at how the MCU reacts to mutant settlements or cities over the years vs New Attilan. Genosha, Utopia, and Krakoa have generally been viewed as problematic or "forced" by the MCU. But Attilan crashing into New York and then them colonizing an existing area and the Inhumans claiming sovereignty was acceptable to everyone. The sheer amount of "looking the other way" that was given to the Inhumans leading to IvX but has yet to be given to Krakoans is fascinating yet not surprising.

I always fond baffling how everyone was all nice and dandy with inhumans , acting WAAAAAYYY more cold and aggressive than mutants, literally droping down in New york creating an enclave, menacing war and at times kidnapping american citizens they wnat to join inhuman culture or not. Was too weird.

One person destroyed Attilan during a fight with Thanos to save inhuman children, and the humans didn't like what happened and attacked Attilan. They didn't kidnap anyone like what they tried to do with Franklin Richards. They invited everyone to Attilan, including mutants and humans. That's why Ms. Marvel and Moongirl don't live there. They wanted to be with their family.

[...] Disney was actually discouraging their own Category Managers (the people who talk to companies making say apparel or toys or videogames) from licensing out X-Men IP, suggesting Avengers or Guardians characters instead. If say someone approached Disney about doing t-shirts with Wolverine or Storm, the first step was to steer them towards Black Panther or Hawkeye or Gamora instead. Mutants weren't outright banned from licensing like the Fantastic Four, but they were massively downplayed in favour of characters fully owned by Disney.

They didn't make a s*t load of inhumans merchandise either. They only ever had 3 Marvel Legends action figures (including Ms. Marvel) and I have 70 X-Men Marvel Legends in my collection, and there's more than that. I just only ever saw 4 Funko pops and those Lego toys. All of the merchandise priority went to Deadpool and the MCU characters. If people knew they've only made like 8 inhumans toys during their "push" and probably 200 X-Men toys when they were discouraging them from being made up until today, they'd be confused by what a push means.

I liked the Inhumans up until they were presented as the heroes and the mutants/minorities as the bad ones. Yeah, let's portray the group of elitists royals as the victims and let's present the mutants who are being wiped out as the bad guys.

Read what you wrote again. If what you're saying is true, how can you think that Marvel was making them the heroes of the event? Where the X-Men the villains during the Legacy Virus story? Why would they be the villains of this?

[Uncanny X-Man]

They didn't make a s*t load of inhumans merchandise either. They only ever had 3 Marvel Legends action figures (including Ms. Marvel) and I have 70 X-Men Marvel Legends in my collection, and there's more than that. I just only ever saw 4 Funko pops and those Lego toys. All of the merchandise priority went to Deadpool and the MCU characters. If people knew they've only made like 8 inhumans toys during their "push" and probably 200 X-Men toys when they were discouraging them from being made up until today, they'd be confused by what a push means.

Oh they never pushed the Inhumans in merchandise, because nobody cared about them except for Perlmutter who insisted on making the show. They did downplay the X-Men however as per my previous post, in favour of other MCU properties.

[Force de Phenix]

Oh they never pushed the Inhumans in merchandise, because nobody cared about them except for Perlmutter who insisted on making the show. They did downplay the X-Men however as per my previous post, in favour of other MCU properties.

This is an example of how the whole idea of this massive push is absurd. They got less than any other Marvel property ever in merchandise, appearances, etc. They just had two years of comic book events that mean little in the grand scheme of things. If people want to blame the downplaying of the core X-Men, they should blame all of the Deadpool (yes he was and is still everywhere during the "downplaying" even though he's a Fox property), Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy merchandise, etc. The inhumans made guest appearances in cartoons and had one poster and one t-shirt and people blame them. Perlmutter was stil CEO when they rebooted the X-Men and hired Hickman, so thank him for that.

[jwatson]

Honestly this is whole thing was purely over the writers and editors heads and in my opinion anyone who doesn't see it is either naive or simply doesn't want to see it. I don't blame the inhumans at all and hope they recover as there is potential there. If you believed in the conspiracy against the xmen and mutants in general at all, your anger, especially at the inhumans makes absolutely no sense, same with what is directed at Wanda. Though it is honestly endlessly fascinating what sparks the passion of those who are fired up especially when contradictions exist.

[Uncanny X-Man]

This is an example of how the whole idea of this massive push is absurd. They got less than any other Marvel property ever in merchandise, appearances, etc. They just had two years of comic book events that mean little in the grand scheme of things. If people want to blame the downplaying of the core X-Men, they should blame all of the Deadpool (yes he was and is still everywhere during the "downplaying" even though he's a Fox property), Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy merchandise, etc. The inhumans made guest appearances in cartoons and had one poster and one t-shirt and people blame them. Perlmutter was stil CEO when they rebooted the X-Men and hired Hickman, so thank him for that.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. That "the Complex" was never real? That Marvel didn't at one point plan to make Inhumans the mutants of the MCU in the "hated and feared" sense because they didn't have access to the Fox properties? This is all well documented and the downplaying of the X-Men has been discussed by well-known creators including the current Head of X.

Nobody is claiming Disney flooded the shelves with Inhumans merchandise at any stage. They very much would have liked to if the show had been a success, but the big disconnect between internal divisions and the utter flop of the show killed any further plans to build the brand.

[Force de Phenix]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. That "the Complex" was never real? That Marvel didn't at one point plan to make Inhumans the mutants of the MCU in the "hated and feared" sense because they didn't have access to the Fox properties? This is all well documented and the downplaying of the X-Men has been discussed by well-known creators including the current Head of X.

Nobody is claiming Disney flooded the shelves with Inhumans merchandise at any stage. They very much would have liked to if the show had been a success, but the big disconnect between internal divisions and the utter flop of the show killed any further plans to build the brand.

Yes, that it was never real. Destroying everything Marvel built for the X-Men to have a grandiose era of inhumans was BS. Disney was promoting the Avengers because they were building something. So tying the rise of the Avengers at the false detriment of X-Men and blaming it on the inhumans is scapegoating and BS. They downplayed the X-Men by not making some merchandise and by replacing them with Black Panther and Luke Cage on a t-shirt. They canceled some things. The "complex" is that they were going to make a perfect switch and everything that had an "X-Men" logo was now going to put labeled "Inhumans." A couple of funko pops and being a side story on a TV show is nothing considering how much goes into marketing.

The perfect example is Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. They made them humans and tied them down to the Avengers franchise more than ever, but people blame it on inhumans. If you go to a store now, play a video game, or whatever, you see X-Men EVERYWHERE. This NEVER happened with the inhumans, but people think it did in their minds.

And being "hated and feared" isn't what sells X-Men. Wolverine and Deadpool sell X-Men. The "hated and feared" stuff is something that most people ignore, including comic book readers, cuz it's become a sports team now. You act like Marvel treated the X-Men like the Fantastic Four. That was bad. The X-Men had a movie a year, 2 tv shows and Deadpool merchandise everywhere.