Is the dream really dead?

[Bootsie]

Well it became tainted when avengers wanted to come to the real world "the x-verse". They cant deal with reality only with open hostility, so it became jaded at that point..

But fear not TS cyclops is still alive.. others are busy with school functions and acting like roses..

[Alan2099]

Well it became tainted when avengers wanted to come to the real world "the x-verse". They cant deal with reality only with open hostility, so it became jaded at that point..

I have no clue what you're trying to say here.

The X-Universe isn't the real world or the X-universe is the real world and the Avengers can't handle it. Is it the Avengers or the X-men who can't deal with hostility and became jaded?

[Mikekerr3]

There are other sapien heroes, you know, Carol not joining doesn't equal all the other sapien heroes not joining either.

And I said sapiens, but it could very well be anyone not being a mutant.
We already know Kitty is against the idea of an Inhuman setting a single foot at the school, but there are plenty of other possibilities.

Any atlantean or mutate would fit the bill for example, even a robot like X-51 would be active proof of "openess" from NXS - he knows plenty about being tracked by governments after all.
Or why not try to contact Ka-zar and set up his new based on his territory ?
Since the canadian cave is compromised.
Doing that would be active collaboration between sapiens and mutants, no ?

At the end of the day, there are plenty of options on the table, Cyclops only has to be willing to try them out.

name a non-mutant heroes that is willing to fight consistenly for Mutant rights? When push came to shove Carol went Brownshirt and she was the only really plausible one. Hell, even the human character now married to a mutant is a bigot

[ohsnapulon5000]

Well The New Mutants are The ones most closely exemplifying Xavier's dream. regardless of their group codependency issues, they've each made points to individually and cooperatively make a presence on human/super/mutant collaborative teams outside of the X-family these days. So the dream isn't dead in their hearts it seems. They've all kind of fanned out in the world but not too far from the X-people that reared them. If writers could keep on that theme then The New Mutants could be the faces of an integrationalist ideal on which Xavier's dream was founded.

Brave New Mutants vol. 1, anyone?

[Mr. Brightside]

The JGS has sapiens students in their ranks, so at least there is that.

You mean the Hellfire kids who were completely written from Schism-causing psychopathic murderers to to sweet misunderstood children? If not for the stupid kid-friendliness WATXM shows, that type of change would have me scratching my head. Hell, the "good" one who stayed in the JGS sent his 7 brothers on a slave cruise in Schism, but know I'm supposed to believe being in a school were LOGAN was the headmaster changed his mind. I'll eat it up if it was shady Xavier, bless his soul, but not the current JGS. It's canon, I know, but still..........

[Bootsie]

I have no clue what you're trying to say here.

The X-Universe isn't the real world or the X-universe is the real world and the Avengers can't handle it. Is it the Avengers or the X-men who can't deal with hostility and became jaded?

No it was plainly shown on AVX avengers cant handle mutant sovereignity it was apparent in the pheonix debacle. If they want to join the popular side of the comics they had to adjust to the mutant side way of thinking.. Not the gung ho know all knowing approach..

mutants have a dream peaceful coexistance.. there's a term here "dont rain on my parade or something of the like"

meanwhile the avengers side of the dream.. "Look at us we are right and loved by the masses and we are definitly afraid of the pheonix and mutants in metaphor" What mutant persecution? we are the head cheese of that department! (get's snugly with the scarlet b)

[dragonmp93]

I still wait for another X-team to include sapien members in its ranks tough.

The Unity team is the sole attempt at cooperation between sapiens and mutants at the moment, an attempt that won't happen anytime soon with the NXS for example.
The JGS has sapiens students in their ranks, so at least there is that.

There are other sapien heroes, you know, Carol not joining doesn't equal all the other sapien heroes not joining either.

And I said sapiens, but it could very well be anyone not being a mutant.
We already know Kitty is against the idea of an Inhuman setting a single foot at the school, but there are plenty of other possibilities.

Any atlantean or mutate would fit the bill for example, even a robot like X-51 would be active proof of "openess" from NXS - he knows plenty about being tracked by governments after all.
Or why not try to contact Ka-zar and set up his new based on his territory ?
Since the canadian cave is compromised.
Doing that would be active collaboration between sapiens and mutants, no ?

At the end of the day, there are plenty of options on the table, Cyclops only has to be willing to try them out.

To be sincere, the only avenger that among the x-men who wont look like a hawaiian-shirted tourist it would be Spidey.

name a non-mutant heroes that is willing to fight consistenly for Mutant rights? When push came to shove Carol went Brownshirt and she was the only really plausible one. Hell, even the human character now married to a mutant is a bigot

Wait, is Havok married ?, or are you talking about someone else ?.......

You mean the Hellfire kids who were completely written from Schism-causing psychopathic murderers to to sweet misunderstood children? If not for the stupid kid-friendliness WATXM shows, that type of change would have me scratching my head. Hell, the "good" one who stayed in the JGS sent his 7 brothers on a slave cruise in Schism, but know I'm supposed to believe being in a school were LOGAN was the headmaster changed his mind. I'll eat it up if it was shady Xavier, bless his soul, but not the current JGS. It's canon, I know, but still..........

Well, if they wants us to believe that the scarlet witch is good now, then why not them too ?.

[Mikekerr3]

Wait, is Havok married ?, or are you talking about someone else ?.......

Havok is married to the Wasp

[dragonmp93]

Havok is married to the Wasp

I knew that they hook up and had a kid together, but what i didnt know was its official.

[People Of The Earth]

name a non-mutant heroes that is willing to fight consistenly for Mutant rights? When push came to shove Carol went Brownshirt and she was the only really plausible one. Hell, even the human character now married to a mutant is a bigot

Define consistantly ?
Because, beyond maybe the likes of Frank Castle, you'd have a hard time to find heroes unwilling to directly help mutants or unwilling to promote mutants rights whenever they get the chance.
The problem is not about finding heroes being able to fight for the mutants, it's about finding heroes willing to do that alongside Scott Summers.
There are planty of them that would be ready to go underground eventually, it would be on Summers to convince them that they can work with him despite his current status of fugitive.
As I said, all he has to do is to actually try and reach out.
Beyond that, Xavier used to rely on his Mutant Underground group before.
If Scott was half as competent as Xavier was, he'd try to create a similar type of network - especially now that he's supposedly so *popular* among the crowds.
Gathering informants or operatives sympathetic to his cause shouln't be that difficult with such a context, plus with Emma's money he'd be able to provide them all the support they might need.

You mean the Hellfire kids who were completely written from Schism-causing psychopathic murderers to to sweet misunderstood children? If not for the stupid kid-friendliness WATXM shows, that type of change would have me scratching my head. Hell, the "good" one who stayed in the JGS sent his 7 brothers on a slave cruise in Schism, but know I'm supposed to believe being in a school were LOGAN was the headmaster changed his mind. I'll eat it up if it was shady Xavier, bless his soul, but not the current JGS. It's canon, I know, but still..........

Oh, I don't believe for one second the attempts at reforming them off of their villainy will work, but at least said attempts are there. How many times have the X-Men took-in villains and tried to reform them ? Should we start a list ?
So yeah, it's a goofy move, but at the same time, it remains in the spirit of what Xavier's dream as always been about: cooperation, tolerance, redemption and so on.

To be sincere, the only avenger that among the x-men who wont look like a hawaiian-shirted tourist it would be Spidey.

Again, who said this had to be an Avenger ?
And if I had to choose someone to join NXS, I'd rather bring Kaine in: he's more ruthless than Parker and that's the kind of maverick character NXS lack of at the moment, since Magneto is always on his errands somewhere.
Parker has not the stomach to take part in a revolution against the authorities, countrary to Kaine.

[Mr. Brightside]

Oh, I don't believe for one second the attempts at reforming them off of their villainy will work, but at least said attempts are there. How many times have the X-Men took-in villains and tried to reform them ? Should we start a list ?
So yeah, it's a goofy move, but at the same time, it remains in the spirit of what Xavier's dream as always been about: cooperation, tolerance, redemption and so on.

X-men attempts at reformation: Sabertooth, Mystique, hell, Wolverine would do the same to Daken if he wasn't so messed up. A Kid Apocalypse, Quire.... The X-men have tried quite a few times. But they can't when most of their enemies are flatscans.

Kaine would be a good idea. I did like Jonny Storm in the X-men back in UltXM

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I knew that they hook up and had a kid together, but what i didnt know was its official.

Well it'll probably be retconned out of existence by the time that Remender leaves the book, it's how he operates usually.

[TedderX]

The dream was seriously questioned in Battle of the Atom.

I must say I had a little emotional attachment to the dream, and seeing x-man fight x-man was a tough pill to swallow, as if they dream was dead.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if the writers (or just the evil Bendis) kills off the dream completely.

[somacula]

They got married and had a kid in a different timeline and then their minds came back to their own time, cyclops is quite an expert on that matter and when I was reading that arc I couldn't stop thinking that marvel could "cable" their son

[king of hybrids]

Define consistantly ?
Because, beyond maybe the likes of Frank Castle, you'd have a hard time to find heroes unwilling to directly help mutants or unwilling to promote mutants rights whenever they get the chance.

i'd actually put odds that more purifiers/u-men etc have met their end at the business end of castle's guns then they have under iron man's repulsors or mighty mjolnir
again though, this particular incredulity strays into out of universe stuff, namely the x-office not liking it when others play with their toys; and most of the non-x writers not wanting to touch the x-franchise with a bargepole, even before you factor in disney's decrees

Nope, as long as there is at least one X-Men, the dream will never die.

would this be a bad time to mention wanda's apparently becoming sorceress supreme then?