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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    No.

    (10 char.)

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliasmachado View Post
    And you still ignore that when the Phoenix arrived on Earth it didn't kill any human or inhuman like terrigen clouds killed mutants.
    But it did take life. Non-Terran, but life was lost along the way. It didn't fully reach earth because the Avengers got in the way and split it up. Then it was a mix of Avengers and X-men to destroy it.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    But it did take life. Non-Terran, but life was lost along the way. It didn't fully reach earth because the Avengers got in the way and split it up. Then it was a mix of Avengers and X-men to destroy it.
    The lives the Phoenix took are unrelated to the mutants. They didn't create it. So any comparison with terrigen mists is ironic to me.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliasmachado View Post
    The lives the Phoenix took are unrelated to the mutants. They didn't create it. So any comparison with terrigen mists is ironic to me.
    Wait unrelated? So if anyone finds a way to say, 'that's your problem', they are free of guilt? Anyways the Inhumans also didn't create Terrigen the Kree did. Before you go "bUT tHey SeT oFf The bOmB", the X-men again still wouldn't do the unthinkable of JUST MOVING HOPE TO THE MOON! So much could have been avoided if the X-men did any form of negotiating with the Avengers, and House of Agon.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Most book just never mention the inhumans vs X-men. It is like a thing to be forgotten.
    Apparently it won't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Thats not good enough. Mutants still died when they had the power to stop it the minute they knew the cloud was toxic. They could have contained the cloud. They could have crystallized and have Terrigenesis be a voluntary process as it had been prior to the T-bomb.
    Medusa didn't know Black Bolt was going to set it off. They tried to do it in War of Kings, but Black Bolt died. He set off the bomb because Thanos was going to kill inhumans because he was looking for his son. He did it to make inhumans to either confuse Thanos or make reinforcements. They never planned on harming anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    IvX
    1) The Inhumans leaders knowingly released a toxic gas that historically empowers inhumans but kills humans.
    1A) The gas is now harmless to regular humans but lethal to mutants
    2) Mutants die, Inhumans do nothing, no one can figure out how to contain or combat a cloud
    3) "Cyclops" comes up with a plan to destroy one of the toxic clouds, a plan that harms exactly no one, except one mutant who died removing the cloud
    4) Medusa and Black Bolt "kill" "Cyclops"
    4b) Cyclops is now remembered as the mutant hitler and hated by all the world.
    5) Mutants around the world are dying
    5b) Inhumans make a token effort to help people suffering but do nothing to end the cause.
    6) Knowing the cloud is killing mutants, Medusa orders the inhumans to prepare for war to defend the cloud
    7) mutants vote to disable (not kill) the inhuman royal family and destroy the cloud
    8) Inhumans continue to fight to defend the cloud
    9) Moon Girls explains to Medusa, in language used to explain things to a 2 year old, that the murdering cloud is bad and killing people.
    9A) Medusa feels bad and agrees to destroy the cloud... finally
    10) Emma Frost is mad and everything is her fault. Medusa and the Inhumans are somehow supposed to be the heroes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    You're victim shaming. The fact is that mutants were being massacred by a poisonous timebomb and you are faulting them for wanting to destroy the source of their killing to end the suffering

    Medusa sat on her throne while the X-men watched their mutant children die. Again a whole year in comic time went by with her allowing this under her watch
    You act like Marvel didn't go to town to punish the inhumans. I don't think they ever did anything worse to any other character including the X-Men.

    1. They hired Cates to do an event to punish the inhumans for Death of X by genocide and massacring their family members and killing thousands of inhumans around the galaxy. They committed genocide against the universal inhumans because they said there weren't any more left in the galaxy beside Earth. So it's Death of X in a much larger scale.
    2. They gave Medusa cancer and all her hair fell out.
    3. They put Black Bolt in prison.
    4. They destroyed Terrigen so that there could be no more inhumans ever again.
    5. They destroyed one of the new cities they build.
    6. They canceled all their publications.
    7. They wrote a two part s*tty event against an IP with a toxic fanbase and made the inhumans the villains of said event.
    8. They still got that sh*t show on Disney Plus, which is mean to the inhumans and the people who click on it.

    And on top of everything, they stupidly wrote that once Medusa found out it would kill all the mutants, she destroyed the could even though they said it already in an early issue. Terrigen wasn't supposed to be poisonous to anyone when it first went off. They retconned that. Why are we giving legitimacy to an event that attempted to make every look like killers and villains like we didn't already see this in Civil War 1 & 2 and Avengers vs. X-Men?

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Only in the sense that by the time IvX rolled around the Inhumans had been so gutted story/theme/lore wise that they were faux!mutants wearing the Inhumans’ skins
    If you except this, then you have to accept that mutants are now faux inhumans.
    Last edited by Force de Phenix; 06-10-2021 at 09:12 AM.

  6. #156
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    You are ignoring the fact that they fought the Avengers earlier on because the Phoenix was destroying planets, while the Avengers wanted to find a way where it didn't reach earth the X-men fought them on this.
    The Phoenix was irrelevant to IvX. You keep bringing it up as if it mattered to what was going on with the Inhuman/Mutant conflict. It didnt

  7. #157
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    Medusa didn't know Black Bolt was going to set it off. They tried to do it in War of Kings, but Black Bolt died. He set off the bomb because Thanos was going to kill inhumans because he was looking for his son. He did it to make inhumans to either confuse Thanos or make reinforcements. They never planned on harming anyone.
    No, she didnt know but what does that matter? She also didnt know it was killing mutants at first but she was informed early on. At that point she had the responsibility to stop it but she did not for a whole year. She allowed it to roam around, make people sick and kill them. Black Bolt may have set it off, but Medusa perpetrated the M-Pox persisting for as long as it did,. They BOTH were responsible for that


    You act like Marvel didn't go to town to punish the inhumans. I don't think they ever did anything worse to any other character including the X-Men.

    1. They hired Cates to do an event to punish the inhumans for Death of X by genocide and massacring their family members and killing thousands of inhumans around the galaxy. They committed genocide against the universal inhumans because they said there were any more left in the galaxy beside Earth. So it Death of X in a much larger scale.
    2. They gave Medusa cancer and all her hair fell out.
    3. They put Black Bolt in prison.
    4. They destroyed Terrigen so that there could be no more inhumans ever again.
    5. They destroyed one of the new cities they build.
    6. They canceled all their publications.
    7. They wrote a two part s*tty event against an IP with a toxic fanbase and made the inhumans the villains of said event.
    8. They still got that sh*t show on Disney Plus, which is mean to the inhumans and the people who click on it.

    And on top of everything, they stupidly wrote that once Medusa found out it would kill all the mutants, she destroyed the could even though they said it already in an early issue. Terrigen wasn't supposed to be poisonous to anyone when it first went off. They retconned that. Why are we giving legitimacy to an event that attempted to make every look like killers and villains like we didn't already see this in Civil War 1 & 2 and Avengers vs. X-Men?

    If you except this, then you have to accept that mutants are now faux inhumans.

    Honestly, its what they rightfully deserved. Im not over hear championing for the Inhumans to suffer and get punished. Like I said before, they are largely irrelevant now

    As for Terrigen not supposed to be poisonous to anyone, that in itself is a retcon bc Son of M, showed that it was potentially toxic to non-Inhumans. It killed some mutants that it had been in contact with. The M-Pox was something new but they knew it was potentially dangerous
    Last edited by Havok83; 06-10-2021 at 09:01 AM.

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    Wait unrelated? So if anyone finds a way to say, 'that's your problem', they are free of guilt? Anyways the Inhumans also didn't create Terrigen the Kree did. Before you go "bUT tHey SeT oFf The bOmB", the X-men again still wouldn't do the unthinkable of JUST MOVING HOPE TO THE MOON! So much could have been avoided if the X-men did any form of negotiating with the Avengers, and House of Agon.
    Could you tell me how mutants are related to the deaths caused by the Phoenix Force if they weren't the ones who summoned it to Earth in the first place? She came because someone exterminated the mutant race of Earth, the only link is that.

    While the terrigen bomb was designed by one inhuman and released into the atmosphere by another, what came later was the appearance of new inhumans at the expense of mutant lives.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Honestly, its what they rightfully deserved. Im not over hear championing for the Inhumans to suffer and get punished. Like I said before, they are largely irrelevant now
    If you think that any character deserve all that (genocide, being treated less than, canceled) you're basically against the core concept of the X-Men and are just in it for sport. I get that fans can be toxic and perpetuate negativity, but this is just sad. This is part of the problem.

  10. #160
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    If you think that any character deserve all that (genocide, being treated less than, canceled) you're basically against the core concept of the X-Men and are just in it for sport. I get that fans can be toxic and perpetuate negativity, but this is just sad. This is part of the problem.
    Then I'll be sad over here. Im not really invested in them and didnt care one way or the other about anything that happened post IvX. Sorry, not sorry

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The Phoenix was irrelevant to IvX. You keep bringing it up as if it mattered to what was going on with the Inhuman/Mutant conflict. It didnt

    It matters because the whole conflict is "Powers shouldn't be at the cost of lives". But in AvX this was the same conflict except Mutants were pro-powers.
    Ever hear of, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    Hey should Emma Frost be punished for the lives of the Ennilux Inhumans she took at the end of IvX?
    Last edited by Noek; 06-10-2021 at 10:12 AM.

  12. #162
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    A few feelings I have as I was both an Inhuman and X-Fan at the time IvX came out:
    1) Marvel character assassinated the Inhumans, in particular the Royal Family, in IvX through the executives in charge even though they were trying to write them as the heroes. But even before IvX the Terrigen Cloud was a problem for the Inhumans as they were fine with the deaths of humans with Inhuman dna that would die after exposure to the Cloud or during terrigenesis. And the Royal Family was, "hmm too bad but look at these other NuHumans..."

    2) Marvel also was ok with letting the Inhumans fall back on their colonial heritage, aka colonizing parts of New York City because their capital landed there so it's now annexed to the Inhumans. What? And the US government and Avengers and world was like ok with that? Apparently so. It again set the stage for their apathy towards anyone else which was mostly on display during the lead-in to IvX.

    3) People comparing the Phoenix Force to the Terrigen Cloud are arguing false equivalences, but there are similarities in responses. There is nothing comparable about a sentient dawn-of-time old Force of nature that has both destructive and life-giving capabilities (it's purpose is not JUST to take life as previously stated) to literally clouds of particles freely blowing across the globe. You cannot say the X-Men were responsible for the creation or arrival of the Phoenix Force in AvX. That's nonsense. You can say the Inhumans are responsible for the creation of the Terrigen Cloud. Doesn't matter why, they were responsible for it's creation. Where the two events are similar are in some of the responses we see. The X-Men, having superior knowledge of the PF, were welcoming the Force to come and save their kind and didn't want it stopped. Was there a possibility of it destroying the Earth? Yes. Did they think they would happen based on their INTIMATE knowledge? No. But they did put their people's needs over everyone else. Similarly we have the Inhumans acting this way over the Terrigen Cloud. The difference is that once it was determined it was killing people and mutants, they did little to nothing to stop it as they deemed it holy and essential for their kind. They allowed deaths to mount and forced another group of people, supposedly their friends, to have to move to a hostile dimension to live. Again, not doing to much. The X-Men here, unlike the Avengers in AvX, were fighting for their survival. Whereas the Avengers during this event thought it wise to not do anything and stay out, effectively giving their support to the Inhumans....again.

    I personally don't think what transpired to the Inhumans afterwards was appropriate or fair, because again it wasn't story driven it was executive driven. So the need for them to disappear after a major miscalculation on executives part didn't need to go the way it did. But the reality is that neither side was written in character fully, but the errors were more noticeable and problematic for the Inhumans. I stand by that Crystal or someone from the InHumans should have received an invitation to the Gala. Maybe they did and chose not to come but they should have regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    It matters because the whole conflict is "Powers shouldn't be at the cost of lives". But in AvX this was the same conflict except Mutants were pro-powers.
    Ever hear of, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    Hey should Emma Frost be punished for the lives of the Ennilux Inhumans she took at the end of IvX?
    1) Yes that is a fair comparison in some respects ie powers in terms of that quote. But you could say in IvX that this was the overarching theme as it was central to both camps. Inhumans wanted powers to ensure their continuation as a powered group at the expense of mutants, and mutants were being killing and sterilized for having different powers so someone could make more of themselves. Again the major difference is the affected populations inside and outside the conflicting parties. We know that no humans were killed when the Phoenix arrived in Earths atmosphere/space. Only after it was attacked and split did anyone lose their lives in the ensuing Avengers altercations. Whereas with the TC people started dying and kept dying. Thousands is what they were spouting over a year period. So the damage exceeds.

    And yes, Emma 100% should have been punished. Full stop. I don't agree with what they did to her storywise, but she should have been punished for her actions.
    Last edited by Askani's Flame; 06-10-2021 at 10:21 AM.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliasmachado View Post
    Could you tell me how mutants are related to the deaths caused by the Phoenix Force if they weren't the ones who summoned it to Earth in the first place? She came because someone exterminated the mutant race of Earth, the only link is that.

    While the terrigen bomb was designed by one inhuman and released into the atmosphere by another, what came later was the appearance of new inhumans at the expense of mutant lives.
    The way all Inhumans are related to the Terrigen cloud, even if not all of them are responsible for it.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    The way all Inhumans are related to the Terrigen cloud, even if not all of them are responsible for it.
    Once again, two inhumans were directly linked to the terrigen bomb and no mutants were linked to the Phoenix's coming to Earth. These are not equivalent facts.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliasmachado View Post
    Of course you don't care, why would a hater care?
    But everything you said doesn't change the FACT that the terrigen mist was KILLING mutants, while the Phoenix Force (which was summoned thanks to Wanda's decimation) didn't deliberately kill any humans.
    Mutants were struggling to survive against a deadly cloud.
    So I'm supposed to ignore the multiple inhabited planets the Phoenix destroyed on it's way to Earth?
    Ok then, apparently only mutant lives matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    No, AvX and IvX are not their fault. Not because of the passions and prejudice of the fans on the board but because of the actual events in the comics.

    AvX - No mutant summoned the Phoenix, no mutant attacked and split it, the Phoenix 5 were possessed by a cosmic entity that influenced their actions. Also, at the end, the mutants were right. The phoenix did come, it didn't destroy the Earth, mutants were repowered, and it did come down to training Hope.

    IvX - Can anyone here legitimately try and defend the Inhumans?
    No they weren't right, they wanted to sit on their hands, risk the lives of everyone on Earth and hope it turns out well.
    The only reason Hope was even able to use the Phoenix, was training she got from the Avengers and help from Scarlet Witch, if they did it the way the X-Men wanted(take literally no precautions and hope everything will turn out ok) the world would be ash floating through space.

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