Should Inhumans have been invited to the Gala?

[Noek]

Honestly do you really expect people to know or try to learn anything about non X characters besides the barest minimum?

This is a problem because people will go on about the Caste system, but this was enforced by the Genetics Council which fought against the Royals. It would be like hating all Mutants because they believe they are the superior race, even though this was the goal of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

[Force de Phenix]

Honestly do you really expect people here to know or try to learn anything about non X characters besides the barest minimum?

I get what you mean, and I kinda did, but you've just made me realize it. I know most people here and in general know vague things about the inhumans that have circulated around the internet as the online movement to bully and hate on the inhumans became more prevalent.

Like I said, Hickman wrote the inhumans before and nuances of inhumans are being adapted into the X-Men comic books now. I think this makes some X-Men fans uncomfortable because it means that they would've liked the inhumans if they had a different IP attached to it. Which is at the root the absurdity of the whole "inhumans were going to replace the X-Men." You can't replace an IP. It also means that the whole "feared and hated" thing doesn't matter because the IP is what they care about. They've put X-Men names and characters on an inhumans story and they don't realize it. Some do and they've mentioned it. I love X-Men and I love inhumans, and I think this direction is interesting because it's like getting both, but it would be nice to see an inhumans publication to see the dynamic they would have. The Fantastic Four and X-Men crossover is a great example of a story of how the current status quo is addressed.

[Kisinith]

I get what you mean, and I kinda did, but you've just made me realize it. I know most people here and in general know vague things about the inhumans that have circulated around the internet as the online movement to bully and hate on the inhumans became more prevalent.

Like I said, Hickman wrote the inhumans before and nuances of inhumans are being adapted into the X-Men comic books now. I think this makes some X-Men fans uncomfortable because it means that they would've liked the inhumans if they had a different IP attached to it. Which is at the root the absurdity of the whole "inhumans were going to replace the X-Men." You can't replace an IP. It also means that the whole "feared and hated" thing doesn't matter because the IP is what they care about. They've put X-Men names and characters on an inhumans story and they don't realize it. Some do and they've mentioned it. I love X-Men and I love inhumans, and I think this direction is interesting because it's like getting both, but it would be nice to see an inhumans publication to see the dynamic they would have. The Fantastic Four and X-Men crossover is a great example of a story of how the current status quo is addressed.

The issue isn't that people on this board are hostile to other IP's (some are admittedly, but not most). The Inhumans were one of Marvels lesser known IP's so by its very nature its... lesser known. However, its most recent major push came directly at the X-Men's expense, narratively (Death Cloud, Extraordinary X-Men, Death of X, and IvX) and logistically (It was part of Marvel's supposed vendetta against Fox movie properties). The whole era is painfully bad (Extraordinary X-Men, retconning mutants, etc.) and getting your push directly at the expense of another IP does not typically make fans of the original IP want to get more involved in the newer one. I'll be the first to admit that the Inhumans IP got dealt a rough hand, it was set up in direct opposition to a much bigger IP with arguably one of the most passionate fan bases, it was written into a number of poorly received crossovers and arguably the worst Marvel live action production (this is anecdotal, I never watched it). That sucks for its fans but its not the fault of X-fandom, thats on the Marvel creative team.

This is not an indictment of you, you indicated that's how you got into the Inhumans and that's fine its comic books. No one should ever be condemned for, or expected to justify their likes. However the inverse is also true, no one should be condemned for their dislikes either, and the IvX era has given a lot of X-fans plenty of reasons to dislike the Inhumans. Not everyone is readily able to simply ignore bad writing and that has hurt plenty of X characters over the years too. I agree that many X-Fans would like elements of the Inhumans, if it had been pushed appropriately. Unfortunately, that's not how Marvel tried to run things and this is the result. Also the idea of "inhumans were going to replace the X-Men" was a direct result of the Inhumans overtly taking parts of the X-Men narrative, the book name (Uncanny Inhumans), retconning mutants, etc. It was a pretty blatant attempt to make the Inhumans budget X-Men and a pretty blatent part of the overall sidelining of Fox movie properties at the time. The worst part is that in their efforts to make the Inhumans a pallet swap of the X-Men they abandoned the best parts of what made the Inhumans distinct. They had been a pretty prominent part of Galactic Marvel and been doing well on their own.

I also disagree with the idea that Krakoa is an Inhuman story, it is a story of a superpowered society, something that the Inhumans have touched upon, possibly closer at times than the X-Men have, but it is not unique to or exclusive to the Inhumans. The fact is that the X-Men have been playing with those same ideas almost since the very beginning. They've had mutant societies since they introduced the Morlocks, Genosha, or Mutant Town, Morrison for example blew this concept up. Economics and Politics have been a mainstay since the introduction of the Hellfire club and Senator Kelley. Isolation, protectionism and international engagement... the many stories on Genosha, Utopia, Ultimate X-Men after Ultimatum. The X-Men have been playing with the idea of a Mutant Society for decades and Krakoa is an amalgamation of aspects of X-Men history. The end result resembles some parts of Inhumanity but is not derived from it.

Also, I have to greatly disagree with you on X-Men/Fantastic Four, I thought that mini was full of potential but delivered total garbage.

Back to the original topic, the fact that the Inhumans do not appear to have any significant political, cultural or economic clout at the moment is the only reason they would not have been invited. Plenty of rivals, villains and adversaries were but as it was a power play, the current lack of power of the Inhumans would be the only reason for their exclusion. In a meta-sense they may also want to continue to distance themselves from IvX, it was not well received and not just in this particular board.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Do you think the Inhumans should have been invited to the Gala?

They invited and accepted a member to their council who had previously intentionally performed a genocide. A council that, one would assume, helps decide their policies and procedures.

So...why not?

The Gala was a power-flex show.

So flex to everyone.

Do you want to comment on the word genocide being used improperly?

[Force de Phenix]

The issue isn't that people on this board are hostile to other IP's (some are admittedly, but not most). The Inhumans were one of Marvels lesser known IP's so by its very nature its... lesser known. However, its most recent major push came directly at the X-Men's expense, narratively (Death Cloud, Extraordinary X-Men, Death of X, and IvX) and logistically (It was part of Marvel's supposed vendetta against Fox movie properties). The whole era is painfully bad (Extraordinary X-Men, retconning mutants, etc.) and getting your push directly at the expense of another IP does not typically make fans of the original IP want to get more involved in the newer one. I'll be the first to admit that the Inhumans IP got dealt a rough hand, it was set up in direct opposition to a much bigger IP with arguably one of the most passionate fan bases, it was written into a number of poorly received crossovers and arguably the worst Marvel live action production (this is anecdotal, I never watched it). That sucks for its fans but its not the fault of X-fandom, thats on the Marvel creative team.

This is not an indictment of you, you indicated that's how you got into the Inhumans and that's fine its comic books. No one should ever be condemned for, or expected to justify their likes. However the inverse is also true, no one should be condemned for their dislikes either, and the IvX era has given a lot of X-fans plenty of reasons to dislike the Inhumans. Not everyone is readily able to simply ignore bad writing and that has hurt plenty of X characters over the years too. I agree that many X-Fans would like elements of the Inhumans, if it had been pushed appropriately. Unfortunately, that's not how Marvel tried to run things and this is the result. Also the idea of "inhumans were going to replace the X-Men" was a direct result of the Inhumans overtly taking parts of the X-Men narrative, the book name (Uncanny Inhumans), retconning mutants, etc. It was a pretty blatant attempt to make the Inhumans budget X-Men and a pretty blatent part of the overall sidelining of Fox movie properties at the time. The worst part is that in their efforts to make the Inhumans a pallet swap of the X-Men they abandoned the best parts of what made the Inhumans distinct. They had been a pretty prominent part of Galactic Marvel and been doing well on their own.

I also disagree with the idea that Krakoa is an Inhuman story, it is a story of a superpowered society, something that the Inhumans have touched upon, possibly closer at times than the X-Men have, but it is not unique to or exclusive to the Inhumans. The fact is that the X-Men have been playing with those same ideas almost since the very beginning. They've had mutant societies since they introduced the Morlocks, Genosha, or Mutant Town, Morrison for example blew this concept up. Economics and Politics have been a mainstay since the introduction of the Hellfire club and Senator Kelley. Isolation, protectionism and international engagement... the many stories on Genosha, Utopia, Ultimate X-Men after Ultimatum. The X-Men have been playing with the idea of a Mutant Society for decades and Krakoa is an amalgamation of aspects of X-Men history. The end result resembles some parts of Inhumanity but is not derived from it.

Also, I have to greatly disagree with you on X-Men/Fantastic Four, I thought that mini was full of potential but delivered total garbage.

Back to the original topic, the fact that the Inhumans do not appear to have any significant political, cultural or economic clout at the moment is the only reason they would not have been invited. Plenty of rivals, villains and adversaries were but as it was a power play, the current lack of power of the Inhumans would be the only reason for their exclusion. In a meta-sense they may also want to continue to distance themselves from IvX, it was not well received and not just in this particular board.

The inhumans were written as a persecuted race since they appeared practically, but people thought it was made up for their new stories. The page of them talking about how they had to separate because they were not going to tolerate human's BS is the story the X-Men are following, and yes, Utopia, Genosha, etc. were based on the inhuman's Attilan because the dream was supposed to be living in peace with humans, not separating from them on mutant Attilan aka Krakoa and establishing a nation. "House of X" is the new "House or Agon," and I'm not mad about it. I was always an X-Men fan and liked their resemblance to the inhumans and when I read Inhumanity I thought they were going to work together again at some point.

You're saying "passionate" when you mean "toxic." One thing is being a fan of your team, another is bullying other characters and looking down on them.

People knew the mutants and inhumans were always almost the same, except for how they get their powers, they aren't distinguishable. How they go about dealing with humankind was what used to separate them. Now they're on the same path. Especially since they're going to space.

Like I said, it's become more of what they had planned for the inhumans at some point, but with the X-Men logo. I don't know if Marvel thinks their readers are too childish to handle seeing inhumans in an X-Men book, or if they don't want the temper tantrums that would follow on Twitter. However, these are the same type of readers who were against Riri Williams and Moongirl because they were "shoving diversity down their throats."

And they didn't push Inhumans at the X-Men's expense. That was the Avengers. Disney opened "Avengers Campus" not "Inhumans Land."

[Metro]

The idea this board isn't hostile towards other IPs is hilarious.
You never see anyone bring up the Avengers unless it's to go on a tirade about how supposedly bad they are and how much better the X-Men are.

[Kisinith]

No, I mean passionate, not toxic. Disliking something other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Disliking an IP other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Talking about how you dislike something doesn't make a person toxic. I also reject any blanket statement about the people on this board. Yeah there are some people here that don't like other IP's, but so what? There are plenty of people here who do. Nothing obligates them to do so and whats more this is the "X-Books" Board, the community here is all about the X-Books. There is no reason that people should have to have extensive knowledge of or be fans of other IP's

Marvel writes stories to deliberately stoke passions and play fandoms off each other (Civil War, Schism, AvX, IvX, Civil War 2...). If a fan buys into that narrative, it's not on them to simply let bygones be bygones when the story/event ends. Its also not on others to condemn them because of their opinion.

[Force de Phenix]

No, I mean passionate, not toxic. Disliking something other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Disliking an IP other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Talking about how you dislike something doesn't make a person toxic. I also reject any blanket statement about the people on this board. Yeah there are some people here that don't like other IP's, but so what? There are plenty of people here who do. Nothing obligates them to do so and whats more this is the "X-Books" Board, the community here is all about the X-Books. There is no reason that people should have to have extensive knowledge of or be fans of other IP's

Marvel writes stories to deliberately stoke passions and play fandoms off each other (Civil War, Schism, AvX, IvX, Civil War 2...). If a fan buys into that narrative, it's not on them to simply let bygones be bygones when the story/event ends. Its also not on others to condemn them because of their opinion.

Toxic with a passion is still toxic. The fact is that X-Men comics are supposed to teach acceptance and tolerance towards others. Bullying and looking down on every other IP make these fans look like the villains of the stories their reading. That's the irony. People should have an extensive knowledge of other IP's if they're going to bash them and make biased statements that aren't true.

[skyvolt2000]

No, I mean passionate, not toxic. Disliking something other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Disliking an IP other people like doesn't make a person toxic. Talking about how you dislike something doesn't make a person toxic. I also reject any blanket statement about the people on this board. Yeah there are some people here that don't like other IP's, but so what? There are plenty of people here who do.

Correct. However that is not the point Force de Phenix is trying to make. Because we saw behavior not just towards Inhumans but other Marvel properties that went BEYOND dislike.

Because we have folks who got harassed, threatened, doxxed, verbally abused in stores and some of that even lead to books being defaced, set on fire, eaten, defaced on, banned from stores and boycotted.

That is what Force de Phenix is talking about. We all have franchises that we don't care for. Not all us are resorting to nasty behavior over it.


And to answer the OP's question-NO the Inhumans should NOT have been invited. Same with Wanda-it's not worth it. They have zero business being there same with Panther, FF, Avengers and others.

That should have been a mutant only affair. Because that took page space from other MIA mutants who could have had cameos like Tag or plant seeds for one shots or minis.

[Kisinith]

Toxic with a passion is still toxic. The fact is that X-Men comics are supposed to teach acceptance and tolerance towards others. Bullying and looking down on every other IP make these fans look like the villains of the stories their reading. That's the irony. People should have an extensive knowledge of other IP's if they're going to bash them and make biased statements that aren't true.

Disparaging an IP is not bullying, targeting posters and creators, real people, that is. Nor do they need "extensive knowledge" before expressing their opinion. With the kind of crap Marvel pumped out during the Inhuman/Mutant conflict, people are fully justified in disliking and disparaging the IP without any further information. Yeah that sucks if you are a fan but that the way it goes, being free to express your opinion does not mean that you have to like every opinion you hear. It also doesn't make people saying things you don't like toxic.

Correct. However that is not the point Force de Phenix is trying to make. Because we saw behavior not just towards Inhumans but other Marvel properties that went BEYOND dislike.

Because we have folks who got harassed, threatened, doxxed, verbally abused in stores and some of that even lead to books being defaced, set on fire, eaten, defaced on, banned from stores and boycotted.

That is what Force de Phenix is talking about. We all have franchises that we don't care for. Not all us are resorting to nasty behavior over it.


And to answer the OP's question-NO the Inhumans should NOT have been invited. Same with Wanda-it's not worth it. They have zero business being there same with Panther, FF, Avengers and others.

That should have been a mutant only affair. Because that took page space from other MIA mutants who could have had cameos like Tag or plant seeds for one shots or minis.

I didn't defend everyone, nor am I defending the kind of behavior you describe. I am pushing back however at some of the blanket statements and baseless assumptions that have been popping up in the thread. Comments like "people here" and "most people here". Further, if one IP significantly and negatively impacts another IP, such as the way inhumans did with the X-Men, people don't need to know their entire history before criticizing them or deciding they don't like them. Nor does that mean they can't comment about them, even in a negative way when it comes up. People do not need to justify their opinions, even the negative ones. If you are a fan and want to push back go for it, that's also fair, its a discussion board some of the best discussions on it came about because of opposing, deeply held, passionate opinions. If someone starts being toxic, which is to say targeting real people, then report them and let the mods take care of it.

Also just to be clear, I have zero issues with Force de Phenix, I disagree with some of their opinions (X-Men/Fantastic Four was horrible) but they've carried themselves very well in the conversation.

tldr: You have the right to state your opinion, you don't have the right to never be offended by someone else's opinion

[LordAllMIghty]

It just dawned on me, the X-Men are kind of sh1tting on the Inhumans mythos. With them living on a island for only mutants and making the world acknowledge them as a nations. Dang

[Force de Phenix]

Disparaging an IP is not bullying, targeting posters and creators, real people, that is. Nor do they need "extensive knowledge" before expressing their opinion. With the kind of crap Marvel pumped out during the Inhuman/Mutant conflict, people are fully justified in disliking and disparaging the IP without any further information. Yeah that sucks if you are a fan but that the way it goes, being free to express your opinion does not mean that you have to like every opinion you hear. It also doesn't make people saying things you don't like toxic.



I didn't defend everyone, nor am I defending the kind of behavior you describe. I am pushing back however at some of the blanket statements and baseless assumptions that have been popping up in the thread. Comments like "people here" and "most people here". Further, if one IP significantly and negatively impacts another IP, such as the way inhumans did with the X-Men, people don't need to know their entire history before criticizing them or deciding they don't like them. Nor does that mean they can't comment about them, even in a negative way when it comes up. People do not need to justify their opinions, even the negative ones. If you are a fan and want to push back go for it, that's also fair, its a discussion board some of the best discussions on it came about because of opposing, deeply held, passionate opinions. If someone starts being toxic, which is to say targeting real people, then report them and let the mods take care of it.

Also just to be clear, I have zero issues with Force de Phenix, I disagree with some of their opinions (X-Men/Fantastic Four was horrible) but they've carried themselves very well in the conversation.

tldr: You have the right to state your opinion, you don't have the right to never be offended by someone else's opinion

I wasn't saying the X-Men/Fantastic Four story was good, but liked that they wanted to address the fact that there is a mutant movement and that Franklin was a mutant and made a story to acknowledge it. It could've gone another way. I think the same type of story with Attilan or Utollan would be interesting. Not with Black Bolt and Medusa though because according to canon, they don't represent anyone now.

I'm not asking anyone to justify why they hate other comics. That wasn't what I was getting at. But there is a hate campaign against these characters that range from hateful online articles to belittling them. They have fans. These people aren't doing anyone any favors and are just disgusting. Disparaging other IP's would be along the lines of saying "their show sucked." It's worse than that and the language used is sometimes violent especially on twitter (of course). If you were a fan of an IP that got this hate, you'd know what I'm talking about. Comics are supposed to be fun, but the mob just makes being a fan suck and wonder about how people can get out of hand with their online presence. I just thought X-Men fans weren't hateful. It's not all of them. When every online article and youtube video for the past 5 years is to bash them, it's not fun anymore. Especially since they killed them and canceled their books years ago.

[Noek]

Know what this is a good of place as any to ask the X forums, more specifically aimed at the big Inhuman haters. So if there were new Inhuman comics would you hate it right away without reading it, or wait and see how the story was being played out?

How do you feel if they didn't star Black Bolt and/or Medusa along with the adult Royals but their children? That they have steped down for their mistakes as a form of penance.

If you are still reading how do you feel of these 4 story ideas:

1) A tie in to Outlawed, more specifically after Roxxon is discovered to be the laws biggest backers. To pay their dept to Kamala for her help the Kingdom of New Attilian and Ennilux Corperation, they are going after Roxxons customers. By that, they are using Industrial espionage to find out their newest big thing they are selling to the public, then New Attilian uses its advanced technology to recreate this since it is most likely something the Inhumans great-great-grandparents would have used, then Ennilux sells it. This takes customers away from them, means they loose money, means they loose influence. The Heirs to Agon must be ready to meet anything Roxxon throws back at the Inhumans.

2) New Attilian is ready for its next big step as 2 elected branches of government have been created to work with the Royal family as equals, all is good as the members are ready to take their place. The only problem is the one who is to be representing the Royal family is missing. The natives of Attilian were clear that they will accept the elected government if the Royal family is included. It is now time to find where the heir is, why they have been missing, and how to keep them from doing this again.

3+4) Yes 2 comics. The first is Inhuman Royals, the new governement of New Atilian is about ready but a traditional form of a Royal family is looked at by many. To find one who is strong enough to do so, a number of influential Inhumans and close relatives are showing through great deeds. To show their support the previous Royal family wishes to part take in this but the more adults of them are busy, they have asked their children to do this in their stead agreeing to bow to them if they do succeed.
The second is Inhuman Warriors, as the Royals are the face of much of the Inhuman culture only a select few can hold that right. But what of those who are skilled enough but due to reasons couldn't partake as a candidate. As a group of lower ranking natives, Nuhumans, and foreign representives deal with many threats that will hurt the stability the Inhumans are trying to achieve before they can begin a great push to the future.

[Askani's Flame]

Know what this is a good of place as any to ask the X forums, more specifically aimed at the big Inhuman haters. So if there were new Inhuman comics would you hate it right away without reading it, or wait and see how the story was being played out?

I would read it sight unseen as I still have some love for the Inhumans. I liked the inclusion of Nublood so to speak, I think Marvel executives mangled what could have been a good time for the IP had they not forced the war with the X-Men IP.

How do you feel if they didn't star Black Bolt and/or Medusa along with the adult Royals but their children? That they have steped down for their mistakes as a form of penance.

Hmmm, I honestly don't know. I do want to see Medusa and Black Bolt, but I think focusing on the next gen or their kids washes over what happened and some good development from the "ruling class" (even thought there was a new government etc etc). I would rather see something akin to Crystal's book where she is taking the reigns and moves in a new direction of rebuilding for the sake of her people and the world.

If you are still reading how do you feel of these 4 story ideas:

1) A tie in to Outlawed, more specifically after Roxxon is discovered to be the laws biggest backers. To pay their dept to Kamala for her help the Kingdom of New Attilian and Ennilux Corperation, they are going after Roxxons customers. By that, they are using Industrial espionage to find out their newest big thing they are selling to the public, then New Attilian uses its advanced technology to recreate this since it is most likely something the Inhumans great-great-grandparents would have used, then Ennilux sells it. This takes customers away from them, means they loose money, means they loose influence. The Heirs to Agon must be ready to meet anything Roxxon throws back at the Inhumans.

2) New Attilian is ready for its next big step as 2 elected branches of government have been created to work with the Royal family as equals, all is good as the members are ready to take their place. The only problem is the one who is to be representing the Royal family is missing. The natives of Attilian were clear that they will accept the elected government if the Royal family is included. It is now time to find where the heir is, why they have been missing, and how to keep them from doing this again.

3+4) Yes 2 comics. The first is Inhuman Royals, the new governement of New Atilian is about ready but a traditional form of a Royal family is looked at by many. To find one who is strong enough to do so, a number of influential Inhumans and close relatives are showing through great deeds. To show their support the previous Royal family wishes to part take in this but the more adults of them are busy, they have asked their children to do this in their stead agreeing to bow to them if they do succeed.
The second is Inhuman Warriors, as the Royals are the face of much of the Inhuman culture only a select few can hold that right. But what of those who are skilled enough but due to reasons couldn't partake as a candidate. As a group of lower ranking natives, Nuhumans, and foreign representives deal with many threats that will hurt the stability the Inhumans are trying to achieve before they can begin a great push to the future.

I think I like 3+4 but I think having a book solely focused on the politics of the government would lose readers quickly. Incorporate other elements of dealing with the world at large, establishing new relationships and mending old ones would be a good start. Also have part of the book go back to reaching out and making contact with lost tribes.

[cranger]

Know what this is a good of place as any to ask the X forums, more specifically aimed at the big Inhuman haters.

I read the 'event' books for the conflict (was it just IvX?), but otherwise I think I stopped reading all X-Men comics during that era. Nothing about what they were doing with the inhumans interested me, and everything they did with the mutants annoyed me.

So, would I read a book about the inhumans? Marvel puts out about 50+ books a month that I don't read. Answering 'no' is not really saying much. I feel confident in saying most people would not read it, regardless of any left over opinions of IvX, barring some stroke of genius/luck.