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  1. #16
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The thing about WW and WW84 is that they aren't really good movies but people were so desperate for a female led superhero movie and many had waited for so long for a WW movie that they were willing to accept anything WB was going to hand over to them.
    Totally disagree with you there bud, but you have the right to not like the movies.

  2. #17
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I have yet to see a good superhero movie. And I have seen almost all of them.

    Edit: That being said, good and enjoyable don't have to mean the same thing. I don't read silver age comics because they are "good".

    -

    Also, I guess in regards to the OP's thread post, I don't think sexism has made Wonder Woman "weak", I think it's given her more typical "masculine" traits in ways I view as a negative. (I don't really like lumping traits in the category of "feminine" and "masculine", but I think you all know what I mean.)
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 06-10-2021 at 01:07 PM.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I'm just going to say if Luke Skywalker's father can go from not-Darth Vader to Darth Vader, then WW's dad shouldn't be anchored to Zeus.

    Anyway, echoing other thoughts, better writers and editors.

  4. #19
    Amazing Member Kid Devil's Avatar
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    I don't know if this is sexist or bad writing but in the 1984 movie I found her very bland like the director couldn't think of anything for her to do other than love Steve Trevor and look cool in battle scenes. Her lack of character growth in that film was disturbingly low behind Maxwell Lord. The word I would use to describe her is bland which was not the case however in the first movie.

  5. #20
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Devil View Post
    I don't know if this is sexist or bad writing but in the 1984 movie I found her very bland like the director couldn't think of anything for her to do other than love Steve Trevor and look cool in battle scenes. Her lack of character growth in that film was disturbingly low behind Maxwell Lord. The word I would use to describe her is bland which was not the case however in the first movie.
    There are plenty of Wonder Woman stories where Diana is quite bland (even the Perez run doesn't really have an interesting characterization of Diana as far as I'm concerned). I don't think WW84 is major offender in that regard. Diana could've been better, but she is still enjoyable.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    "Well, Diana was bland in other stories too!" is not the best defense.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Devil View Post
    I don't know if this is sexist or bad writing but in the 1984 movie I found her very bland like the director couldn't think of anything for her to do other than love Steve Trevor and look cool in battle scenes. Her lack of character growth in that film was disturbingly low behind Maxwell Lord. The word I would use to describe her is bland which was not the case however in the first movie.
    At least she was more interesting than in BvS or JL, although that's a low bar. But I didn't think she was bad WW84. If anything it showed her as someone who was willing to sacrifice what she wanted for the greater good

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The thing about WW and WW84 is that they aren't good movies but people were so desperate for a female led superhero movie and many had waited so long for a WW movie that they were willing to accept anything WB was going to hand over to them.
    The first Wonder Woman film not being a good movie is a very hot take. WB not creating a cinematic WW that ALL WW fandom could get behind (which will never happen anyway) does not take away from the fact that WW was a critically acclaimed hit that even landed on the annual list of best ten films of the year that the American Film Institute released in 2017 (WW was the only superhero film that year to land on the list). If people were so "desperate for a female led superhero movie," Captain Marvel, released by Marvel Studios at the height of their can't-do-wrong critical peak, would have gotten reviews as glowing as the ones Wonder Woman got; it did not. And CM's middling reviews led to Marvel getting rid of the directors when it was time for the sequel, replacing them with Nia Dacosta.


    Anyway, I am on the camp that wants Diana to continue using the sword and shield, but only in situations that using them might be more effective or required.
    I DON'T want her to have them on her at all times or to have her wielding it on the covers every month. I also want the writers to use the lasso in creative ways.
    I think that yes, Diana has been underpowered and undermined for far too long (the recent story in which she joined forces with Batman to investigate the death of an Irish deity made me cringe. Diana is smart, sharp, and clever enough not to need Batman to do her detective work for her).

    I also want the Daddy Zeus thing to go away. Instead, it should be her Olympus Aunties who bestow her with her powers. And no, not even Hermes should be involved.
    I also want the book to put a moratorium on any Amnesiac Amazon and/or Depowering Diana stories for the next 20 years.
    Last edited by HestiasHearth; 06-10-2021 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #24
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    The first Wonder Woman film not being a good movie is a very hot take. WB not creating a cinematic WW that ALL WW fandom could get behind (which will never happen anyway) does not take away from the fact that WW was a critically acclaimed hit that even landed on the annual list of best ten films of the year that the American Film Institute released in 2017 (WW was the only superhero film that year to land on the list). If people were so "desperate for a female led superhero movie," Captain Marvel, released by Marvel Studios at the height of their can't-do-wrong critical peak, would have gotten reviews as glowing as the ones Wonder Woman got; it did not. And CM's middling reviews led to Marvel getting rid of the directors when it was time for the sequel, replacing them with Nia Dacosta.


    Anyway, I am on the camp that wants Diana to continue using the sword and shield, but only in situations that using them might be more effective or required.
    I DON'T want her to have them on her at all times or to have her wielding it on the covers every month. I also want the writers to use the lasso in creative ways.
    I think that yes, Diana has been underpowered and undermined for far too long (the recent story in which she joined forces with Batman to investigate the death of an Irish deity made me cringe. Diana is smart, sharp, and clever enough not to need Batman to do her detective work for her).

    I also want the Daddy Zeus thing to go away. Instead, it should be her Olympus Aunties who bestow her with her powers. And no, not even Hermes should be involved.
    I also want the book to put a moratorium on any Amnesiac Amazon and/or Depowering Diana stories for the next 20 years.
    Asking writers to tell a superhero story without using depowerment as a plot device? Just shoot them in both kneecaps why don'cha?!

    Jokes aside, I think Diana has had a good track record of avoiding the depowerment plot device post-crisis. Though, it's ironic since I think she's had the longest depowered plot-line out of any comic-book character (mod Wonder Woman era).

  10. #25
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    "Well, Diana was bland in other stories too!" is not the best defense.
    At least it's true to her history.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean Sexism isn't just something that is 100% straight forwarded. I do think she should deal with both sides. That Steve has to deal with sexism too.

  12. #27
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    If it's bad writing, it's just bad writing. No need to bring sexism into it to cope especially when these complaints are still around with DC trying to get more female writers on the book.
    "Cable was right!"

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Drop Zeus from her origin and go back to the clay origin.

    Retcon Jason into someone other than her twin brother.

    Leverage her vivacious Golden Age persona that not only enjoyed herself, but tackled sexism anywhere and “anywhen” it occurred.

    Retcon Etta Candy to being Diana’s best friend and who is amazing forthright against bigotry and has high self esteem and self confidence.

    Leverage bits of Lynda Carter’s portrayal in the earliest episodes of the tv series.

    Leverage parts of what Patty and Gal have brought to the character from the films.

    Make the Amazons a people who have progressed in many ways faster than Man’s World and not portray them as a stagnant, barbaric culture.

    Hire editors and creators comfortable with writing about sexism and not portraying Diana and the Amazons in a sexist way and skilled enough to weave the themes of sexism and bigotry into amazing and fun action and adventure stories.

  14. #29
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    If it's bad writing, it's just bad writing. No need to bring sexism into it to cope especially when these complaints are still around with DC trying to get more female writers on the book.
    Obviously. I don't think many peoplehere agree with the set up of this thread. Diana's gender has both helped her with DC editorial, but most of the complaints some people here have aren't a case of sexism.

  15. #30
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    If it's bad writing, it's just bad writing. No need to bring sexism into it to cope especially when these complaints are still around with DC trying to get more female writers on the book.
    Sure. What a coincidence. That a feminist and girl power icon. Gets depowered. Writen as a weaklink that heavily needs a sword and shield to do anything. That gets one or two shotted by supereman in comics and movies. That usually gets writen with the attitude of a bararian and they make her people men haters just because they are a soiciety of only women. Sexism has affected WW and in my opinion it is a fact. And sexism is a form of bad writing.

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