Wonder Woman #773 Discussion/Spoilers

[SiegePerilous02]

Who knows how powerful the Norse heroes are, but suddenly Siggy was flying I think in the third issue of this arc.

If we don't know how powerful the Norse heroes are, how can you come to the conclusion that he isn't fully powered? Like Gaius said, his flying in that issue had more to do with him being a spirit/ghost, but even if it didn't him flying doesn't mean he was ever as powerful as Wonder Woman in life to begin with. His memories being intact and hers not leading to her powers fluctuating (but coming back the more remembers) doesn't contradict anything. It's pretty straight forward.

I was just using Superman as an example. Take that for what you will.

There really isn't any reason to bring him in as an example though. We can infer that he'd deal with the same situation, but it's not his book or creative team, nor are Gods his typical wheelhouse anyway. So it's moot

And I don't want a decompressed storyline telling us our 'mystery' in what seems like forever. And, I along with probably some other people, don't want to read more storylines with the amazons or Greek Gods gone or dead. This seems to be storyline that every writer has been using as of late.

I don't care for decompression either, but that's an industry wide problem, and this isn't even that bad compared to others.

Overall reception of the run is very positive so far. Doubtless there are people who aren't wild about it (there always are for everything), but most fans don't seem too bothered by these elements. Or at least are satisfied enough with other aspects (use of old villains, exploring the Multiverse, Diana's voice) that they can overlook it.

[BiteTheBullet]

I don't understand why this would affect your enjoyment of the story. It's a fair question, but the drama and the intrigue, abd tge fun, works anyway.

Because there should be rules in play, not just lazy plot devices that writers use.

Same thing goes for why I thought WW84 was a bad movie. They were just making up the wishstones rules on the fly instead of giving us a more discrete set of rules for the wishes to be based upon. This wasn't the only reason I thought the movie was bad, but a pretty major one.

[I'm a Fish]

For a story that was meant to double as an introduction for new readers, I found it to be pretty compressed actually.

[Gaius]

For a story that was meant to double as an introduction for new readers, I found it to be pretty compressed actually.

I felt this too actually, felt like in other writers the middle issues would have been stretched out to make the story five or six parts.

[BiteTheBullet]

If we don't know how powerful the Norse heroes are, how can you come to the conclusion that he isn't fully powered? Like Gaius said, his flying in that issue had more to do with him being a spirit/ghost, but even if it didn't him flying doesn't mean he was ever as powerful as Wonder Woman in life to begin with. His memories being intact and hers not leading to her powers fluctuating (but coming back the more remembers) doesn't contradict anything. It's pretty straight forward.



There really isn't any reason to bring him in as an example though. We can infer that he'd deal with the same situation, but it's not his book or creative team, nor are Gods his typical wheelhouse anyway. So it's moot



I don't care for decompression either, but that's an industry wide problem, and this isn't even that bad compared to others.

Overall reception of the run is very positive so far. Doubtless there are people who aren't wild about it (there always are for everything), but most fans don't seem too bothered by these elements. Or at least are satisfied enough with other aspects (use of old villains, exploring the Multiverse, Diana's voice) that they can overlook it.

I only brought in the Superman example because he is all about strength. That is the only reason I brought him up. To me, it follows if you are superstrong, you are not going to forget that or your body isn't going to suddenly be less vulnerable. Maybe not the best choice or example, but the same way Diana is superstrong on what should be Superman's level (or not quite as strong) she shouldn't all of a sudden be less vulnerable because she doesn't remember.

I never said Siggy wasn't fully powered since I have no idea of knowing what abilities he has. I did say he seemed to have most of his memories so he didn't have this same 'problem' that Diana had. And you might be right that he was in a spirit form so that meant he could fly, I'll give you that. Yet, even Diana thought she could fly early on, or at least was remembering that she could, so why couldn't she initially if it was all about memories?

To me this smacks of a loose set of rules that the writers intentionally put in so they really wouldn't have to explain it. And it looks like for a lot of posters on this board, that is just fine with them. But I like to have a little consistency or 'rules', otherwise writers can just do what they please without rhyme or reason.

As far as overall reception, are you just talking about people on this board that seem to like it, or are you saying this based on sales or something like that? If I remember right, every issue of the Azz series was even better than the last according to a few very vocal and frequent posters to the extent that it got a little sickening every time a new issue came out and all the praise that it got from these folks. If you had just gone by what they said, the Azz Wonder Woman should have had readership that rivals the amount of people reading the bible. And yet, the series had as many critics as people that praised it, but eventually his run and continuity got scrapped as basically a memory to Wonder Woman, meaning that it pretty much counted for nothing.

[I'm a Fish]

I only brought in the Superman example because he is all about strength. That is the only reason I brought him up. To me, it follows if you are superstrong, you are not going to forget that or your body isn't going to suddenly be less vulnerable. Maybe not the best choice or example, but the same way Diana is superstrong on what should be Superman's level (or not quite as strong) she shouldn't all of a sudden be less vulnerable because she doesn't remember.

I never said Siggy wasn't fully powered since I have no idea of knowing what abilities he has. I did say he seemed to have most of his memories so he didn't have this same 'problem' that Diana had. And you might be right that he was in a spirit form so that meant he could fly, I'll give you that. Yet, even Diana thought she could fly early on, or at least was remembering that she could, so why couldn't she initially if it was all about memories?

To me this smacks of a loose set of rules that the writers intentionally put in so they really wouldn't have to explain it. And it looks like for a lot of posters on this board, that is just fine with them. But I like to have a little consistency or 'rules', otherwise writers can just do what they please without rhyme or reason.

I guess, when it comes to inconsistencies (in comics especially), I've just read too many comics to be terribly bothered by it. They've never felt consistent to me.

I mean, if a writer does a complete contradiction that will piss me off, but I was literally reading a comic just now where Mars took WW strength and speed and gave it to Psycho, which was like, "why doesn't he do that permanently?" It was a golden age story to be far, but yeah.

As far as overall reception, are you just talking about people on this board that seem to like it, or are you saying this based on sales or something like that? If I remember right, every issue of the Azz series was even better than the last according to a few very vocal and frequent posters to the extent that it got a little sickening every time a new issue came out and all the praise that it got from these folks. If you had just gone by what they said, the Azz Wonder Woman should have had readership that rivals the amount of people reading the bible. And yet, the series had as many critics as people that praised it, but eventually his run and continuity got scrapped as basically a memory to Wonder Woman, meaning that it pretty much counted for nothing.

Reviews on comic websites have been positive. Of course, it's like most things where people who like it will talk about it and people who don't like it will probably just not say anything since they lost interest.

DC doesn't release comic sales by # anymore, so it hard to know.

[Alpha]

Because there should be rules in play, not just lazy plot devices that writers use.

Same thing goes for why I thought WW84 was a bad movie. They were just making up the wishstones rules on the fly instead of giving us a more discrete set of rules for the wishes to be based upon. This wasn't the only reason I thought the movie was bad, but a pretty major one.

You must hate the Golden Age and the Silver Age.

[BiteTheBullet]

You must hate the Golden Age and the Silver Age.

I never started collecting comics from DC until the Perez reboot.

[Robanker]

Thanks for the recap

Just as an aside, doesn't it sound ridiculous to refer to Batman as the Batman who Laughs?

You could be petty like me and refer to him as "The Batman Who Sucks" because TBWL is a pretty bankrupt idea borne of commerce, ruins pretty much every villain you have and makes all your heroes appear incompetent and visually rips off Judge Death.

I'll admit, that should be what someone calls Red Rain Bruce, but again, I'm petty.

[SiegePerilous02]

I only brought in the Superman example because he is all about strength. That is the only reason I brought him up. To me, it follows if you are superstrong, you are not going to forget that or your body isn't going to suddenly be less vulnerable. Maybe not the best choice or example, but the same way Diana is superstrong on what should be Superman's level (or not quite as strong) she shouldn't all of a sudden be less vulnerable because she doesn't remember.

It's not like she's forgetting her powers in a normal situation. She's amnesiac in the sphere of the Gods in an afterlife that isn't her own. All this is taking place in the astral plane. The situation she is in makes it clear that weird things are going on. You are reacting as if this is normal Wonder Woman on the mortal plane and this is how her powers function normally. The story is making no pretense that that is the case.

I never said Siggy wasn't fully powered since I have no idea of knowing what abilities he has. I did say he seemed to have most of his memories so he didn't have this same 'problem' that Diana had. And you might be right that he was in a spirit form so that meant he could fly, I'll give you that. Yet, even Diana thought she could fly early on, or at least was remembering that she could, so why couldn't she initially if it was all about memories?

You said "Siggy should have all of his powers if he has all his memories," which just seemed odd as the story doesn't make any attempt to say that he doesn't. And we don't know what his powers are, so anything he does in relation to amnesiac Wonder Woman doesn't mean anything. We know this normal for him, and abnormal for her.

She had a vague recollection she could fly, but not a strong one. After she'd started getting more memories back, stronger resolve and now a goal, it seems pretty consistent that flight would gradually return with her other powers.

To me this smacks of a loose set of rules that the writers intentionally put in so they really wouldn't have to explain it. And it looks like for a lot of posters on this board, that is just fine with them. But I like to have a little consistency or 'rules', otherwise writers can just do what they please without rhyme or reason.

I think this is a fair criticism for something like the wish stone in WW84 (which I largely agree with you on), but seems unnecessarily nit-picky here, IMO. Especially as superhero comics have never cared for consistent rules with this stuff anyway. And this isn't nearly as major of a plot device with unfortunate implications as the wish stone.

As far as overall reception, are you just talking about people on this board that seem to like it, or are you saying this based on sales or something like that? If I remember right, every issue of the Azz series was even better than the last according to a few very vocal and frequent posters to the extent that it got a little sickening every time a new issue came out and all the praise that it got from these folks. If you had just gone by what they said, the Azz Wonder Woman should have had readership that rivals the amount of people reading the bible. And yet, the series had as many critics as people that praised it, but eventually his run and continuity got scrapped as basically a memory to Wonder Woman, meaning that it pretty much counted for nothing.

I wouldn't use rebooting away Azz's run as an indicator of anything. By all accounts, it sold well and got rave reviews. Even in some of the comic shops I went to, it had good word of mouth. It's still in print and got stuff like an Absolute and omnibus editions, so it was doing something right. The really heated reactions to it mostly came online, everyone else either really liked it or were neutral. Same with Rucka's second run, which got a similar divisive reaction (just people switching sides from the Azz run), but seemed to be well received in sales and reviews. And it is being tweaked, Year One might not be canon anymore.

So the positive reactions from people so far are in this run's favor. It will likely get rebooted away, but what else is new?

[Nyssane]

I don't remember Azz's run getting as much acclaim as this one is during the New 52. Fans (at least here) were pretty split on it.

[Gaius]

You could be petty like me and refer to him as "The Batman Who Sucks" because TBWL is a pretty bankrupt idea borne of commerce, ruins pretty much every villain you have and makes all your heroes appear incompetent and visually rips off Judge Death.

I'll admit, that should be what someone calls Red Rain Bruce, but again, I'm petty.

I think every detractor of him has their own pet nickname by this point.

I don't remember Azz's run getting as much acclaim as this one is during the New 52. Fans (at least here) were pretty split on it.

I think among professional critics it was pretty consistently well-praised but among fans is where the divide was. At least from what I can tell/recall, I wasn't active in the online comics circles.

[Robanker]

I think every detractor of him has their own pet nickname by this point.



I think among professional critics it was pretty consistently well-praised but among fans is where the divide was. At least from what I can tell/recall, I wasn't active in the online comics circles.

A lot of what I was seeing was new readers liked it and guys who never found their "in" to Wonder Woman had it in Azzarello's run.

Obviously that's not an iron-clad rule, but it was definitely not designed for classic Wonder Woman fans for good or ill.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't remember Azz's run getting as much acclaim as this one is during the New 52. Fans (at least here) were pretty split on it.

I think among professional critics it was pretty consistently well-praised but among fans is where the divide was. At least from what I can tell/recall, I wasn't active in the online comics circles.

Azz definitely got the bigger reactions, both positive and negative. Same with Rucka's. I think that's down to both of them being inherently divisive (the latter more so because of its reactions to/undoing of the former), whereas this one isn't. People tend to talk less when they are satisfied, but divisiveness gets us going There is less divisiveness on here at least for the current run, but less long discussions and debates.

Which might actually be a good thing. It might mean less people are reading it, or it could mean people are happy and have less to argue about lol.

A lot of what I was seeing was new readers liked it and guys who never found their "in" to Wonder Woman had it in Azzarello's run.

Obviously that's not an iron-clad rule, but it was definitely not designed for classic Wonder Woman fans for good or ill.

Agreed. I think a lot of the vitriol existed online though. I think there were a lot of WW fans who ended up liking it despite reservations, or just dropped it.

[Koriand'r]

Azz definitely got the bigger reactions, both positive and negative. Same with Rucka's. I think that's down to both of them being inherently divisive (the latter more so because of its reactions to/undoing of the former), whereas this one isn't. People tend to talk less when they are satisfied, but divisiveness gets us going There is less divisiveness on here at least for the current run, but less long discussions and debates.

Which might actually be a good thing. It might mean less people are reading it, or it could mean people are happy and have less to argue about lol.



Agreed. I think a lot of the vitriol existed online though. I think there were a lot of WW fans who ended up liking it despite reservations, or just dropped it.

Hated it from go but I did neither. I read every issue in my lcs just to be able to critique it fairly, then eventually bought every issue at a con for a dollar a copy so as not to contribute to it's sales. There were some elements that were okay, but it still reeks to this day.