Gods (Mythology) vs Cosmic Beings (Marvel)

[Carabas]

Using a feats based system, even if the omnipotent were included their level of power would be based off the 'feats' from the source material.

That doesn't really make sense. You can't be more or less omnipotent than somebody else who is omnipotent. It's pretty much an absolute thing. If there's somebody else out there whose 'more' omnipotent than you then you're not even in the slightest omnipotent.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Exactly. Which is why feats are important. The God from the Saint of Killers verse, for instance, was omnipotent or what have you. But feats wise, he wasn't, and was killed by SoK.

[Carabas]

Exactly. Which is why feats are important. The God from the Saint of Killers verse, for instance, was omnipotent or what have you. But feats wise, he wasn't, and was killed by SoK.

I don't recall Preacher-God ever being portrayed as such.

But if he were, you run into a philosophical conundrum: can an omnipotent being create something (the Saint's guns) that can kill himself?

[big_adventure]

That doesn't really make sense. You can't be more or less omnipotent than somebody else who is omnipotent. It's pretty much an absolute thing. If there's somebody else out there whose 'more' omnipotent than you then you're not even in the slightest omnipotent.

Thing is, gods get called "omnipotent" all the time. Thor didn't go three issues back in the day without referring to "omnipotent Odin". But Marvel Odin, while stupidly powerful, isn't remotely omnipotent.

Since we go by feats here, you need feats to be given that kind of power. Therefore, old mythology folks are hard to use, as the people imagining the myths didn't imagine the extent of solar systems, galaxies, universes, dimensions, et. al. Myth Zeus' best stuff is nowhere near Marvel Odin's, for example.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Thanks big.

But like I said a few posts back. In a feats based system, we look at the mythological gods feats.

If they're stated as being omnipotent, but either have vague feats, or feats that don't come anywhere close, they're not omnipotent in anything more than title.

[Primetime Harder]

I don't recall Preacher-God ever being portrayed as such.

Bit of clarification there - Preacher God was only all-powerful when he was seated on the Throne of Creation. Leaving it to futz around on Earth was an enormously stupid decision, the consequences of which should be fairly obvious.

And of course, we never saw him actually do anything with his full power because his abandonment of the Throne was most of what kicked off the series in the first place.

[BitVyper]

You can't be more or less omnipotent than somebody else who is omnipotent. It's pretty much an absolute thing.

This only works when there is a singular omnipotent being operating in the context of its own story. As soon as you bring more allegedly omnipotent beings into play, either some or all of them must be less than omnipotent if you are taking omnipotence as meaning absolutely-all-powerful. Since there can't actually be two all-powerful but separate entities, it becomes a question of who is MORE powerful, which is a matter that, on this board, is decided by feats.

[JudicatorPrime]

This only works when there is a singular omnipotent being operating in the context of its own story. As soon as you bring more allegedly omnipotent beings into play, either some or all of them must be less than omnipotent if you are taking omnipotence as meaning absolutely-all-powerful. Since there can't actually be two all-powerful but separate entities, it becomes a question of who is MORE powerful, which is a matter that, on this board, is decided by feats.

Very well said. That's exactly how I see it.

Most of the ancient mythologies all feature an omnipotent source/being. By that the worshippers meant "All Powerful" in the extent that there was no other source above them that was more powerful.

That said, it's often ironic how many of these all powerful beings had/have rivals, or encountered adventures which challenged them in some way. Here "feats" were the means to cast omnipotence in a human light so that supplicants could both be in awe (and fear) of omnipotence, yet relate to it through the lens of human understanding.

Ultimately, this may all be a pointless exercise, since in the canon of the Marvel Universe there is a truly omnipotent being and all of the mythological deities are clearly far less powerful than him/her/it. By comparison even "Omnipotent Odin" is but a tiny goby fish swimming in a vast ocean that he didn't create... and could never create.

[Powerboy]

Using a feats based system, even if the omnipotent were included their level of power would be based off the 'feats' from the source material.

Exactly. I realize we can't really use any active religions as examples if they have any believers on this forum. But, no matter the religion, if we followed the same rules as for anything else, no matter how much the word "omnipotent" gets thrown around, it comes down to the most powerful things they actually did in their respective texts.

They kept saying Q was omnipotent. But he stands or falls by his feats. He might even lose to someone who was never even called omnipotent because they have better feats.

Even with beings that created the universe, that can be trumped by creating multiple universes, for example. It comes down to feats. "Omnipotent" is a cool word to toss around but it's a distraction. What did they actually do?

[Powerboy]

Very well said. That's exactly how I see it.

Most of the ancient mythologies all feature an omnipotent source/being. By that the worshippers meant "All Powerful" in the extent that there was no other source above them that was more powerful.

That said, it's often ironic how many of these all powerful beings had/have rivals, or encountered adventures which challenged them in some way. Here "feats" were the means to cast omnipotence in a human light so that supplicants could both be in awe (and fear) of omnipotence, yet relate to it through the lens of human understanding.

Ultimately, this may all be a pointless exercise, since in the canon of the Marvel Universe there is a truly omnipotent being and all of the mythological deities are clearly far less powerful than him/her/it. By comparison even "Omnipotent Odin" is but a tiny goby fish swimming in a vast ocean that he didn't create... and could never create.

Reminds me of classic quotes.

Marvel Odin: "This machine is draining my omnipotent might." [Insert rolling eyes].

[Bullet Sniper]

Thing is, gods get called "omnipotent" all the time. Thor didn't go three issues back in the day without referring to "omnipotent Odin". But Marvel Odin, while stupidly powerful, isn't remotely omnipotent.

Since we go by feats here, you need feats to be given that kind of power. Therefore, old mythology folks are hard to use, as the people imagining the myths didn't imagine the extent of solar systems, galaxies, universes, dimensions, et. al. Myth Zeus' best stuff is nowhere near Marvel Odin's, for example.

Dude lol what are you bros talking about?

Hesiod stated that Zeus's thunderbolts are strong enough to destroy an entire universe (i'm dead serious, there's a quote) and in the Homeric myths, Zeus went up against Typhon, a creature that could destroy and recreate the universe (and was going to create an 8th heaven) and that's not even getting into myth Zeus's stronger versions.

[The Chou Lives]

On Preacherverse God: On his throne, he can do anything. Literally.

But off throne? Can do stuff, but limits.

SOK's guns were made from Death's Sword, via God at throne level. hence off throne, his ass was grass with the bullet.

On subject: The only defunct mythology that stands a chance is Greek, because those buggers are nigh unkillable. But their most impressive powers are not their own, rather magic objects that grant them dominion. The most powerful stuff anyway.


Golden apples to stop aging.
Zeus's thudner bolt has to be tossed to be used for it was a weapon made by the giants with 100 hands.
Poseidon's Trident controls waves and makes earthquakes.
Hades has a helmet that makes him invisible.
Hermes having winged sandals for flight.

Etc, etc. now, they do have legitmate magic without said relics, just nothing that powerful. (Zeus mainly getting laid is not really note worthy.)

Galactus, exists because he withstood the death of HIS universe. You also have the Celestials who exist beyond 3d universe to our knowledge, and guys who do not need jack to turn on powers.

Also Typhon was the first "monster" that was male in the Greek universe and used as a tool via the Titans to try to defeat the Olympians. As the Titans were defeated, but not killed, as they were aspects of creation. Yet depsite their primordial power, did not win due to limitations and not out tihnking their spawn.

[Postmania]

Dude lol what are you bros talking about?

Hesiod stated that Zeus's thunderbolts are strong enough to destroy an entire universe (i'm dead serious, there's a quote) and in the Homeric myths, Zeus went up against Typhon, a creature that could destroy and recreate the universe (and was going to create an 8th heaven) and that's not even getting into myth Zeus's stronger versions.

Did it say these things originally, or through a translation?

[GozertheGozarian]

Did it say these things originally, or through a translation?

It wouldn't matter, it's still narrative hyperbole.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Dude lol what are you bros talking about?

Hesiod stated that Zeus's thunderbolts are strong enough to destroy an entire universe (i'm dead serious, there's a quote) and in the Homeric myths, Zeus went up against Typhon, a creature that could destroy and recreate the universe (and was going to create an 8th heaven) and that's not even getting into myth Zeus's stronger versions.

How large is the universe they were thinking of? Because there are beings that can obliterate galaxies and destroy/create universes that countless galaxies in the MU.

The bearer of the Infinity Gauntlet alone can kill half the universe, become the physical embodiment of the universe, and punk the embodiment of Life/The Universe, Death, and a metric crapton of other Galactic+ level cosmics with naught but a thought and the Gauntlet was neutralized at the whim of the Living Tribunal.