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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Default It's time for Star Trek to embrace the multiverse...

    Okay, hear me out. I think the ST franchise has a problem. The elephant in the room. And it is TOS. This is something that's been hanging over the franchise since at least TNG and has only gotten weirder since. A TV show made 50 years ago on a shoe string budget that used push buttons in the 23rd century doesn't work today. Shows like Enterprise and even Discovery are trying to tip toe around the fact that we've already surpassed the technology on the show and trying to shoehorn it into the larger narrative is awkward to say the least. There is also the fact that the franchise seems to be going in a direction the fans don't like. Between the Abrams movies literally trying to overwrite TOS and Discovery giving Spock a secret sister (Sybok was ridiculous enough 30 years ago), it's time to just let each show be it's own universe.

    I'm a Superman fan. But I don't think that Superman & Lois takes place in the same universe as Smallville. Or that Smallville took place in the same universe as Lois & Clark. And so forth. People are smart enough to understand the concept of the same character taking place in different universes. Hell, Warners is doing it right now with Batman. Leonard Nimoy Spock and Ethan Peck Spock don't have to be the same person. Chris Pine Kirk and William Shatner Kirk don't have to be either. You don't go from touchscreens to push buttons. It just doesn't happen. There's no way to spin it. Let TOS stand on it's own and let every other series be it's own universe. Maybe Kirk and Spock exist there. But they don't have to be the ones from TOS.
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  2. #2
    Mighty Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Start Trek embraced the multiverse in 1967. It's time for every other franchise to abandon the multiverse.

  3. #3
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    So, superduperman, you're saying ST could have several versions of the same characters?

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Robotech Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    So, superduperman, you're saying ST could have several versions of the same characters?
    Maybe, though I think the route of his suggestion is that the Original series no longer be treated as Canon due to discrepancies piling up. That could entail opening up the original series to rebooting without some in-universe timeline split like the Abrams films, or it could be that only general things like the existence of a man named Kirk remain in modern Trek series lore, but not the oddity of humanity not knowing what Romulans looked like until the Enterprise's 5 year mission because ships didn't have viewscreen communication during their first war.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think TOS contradicted itself at times; even Starfleet isn't really a thing until a few episodes into the first season.
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  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    So, superduperman, you're saying ST could have several versions of the same characters?
    I'm saying that there are a lot of things that don't work anymore. Kahn alone couldn't be canon today. There are also a lot of decisions, especially in recent years, that a lot of fans don't like. Like Michael Burnham. There can be a universe were Spock has a human sister without it necessarily being TOS version. But the problems mostly stem from the technology. How do we retrofit this old TV show into a franchise where touchscreens existed first? It makes more sense to adopt the superhero route and have each series simply be it's own universe. Even when TNG came out, a lot of old school fans didn't like ti being forced into the same universe as TOS.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    They already did, and, seeing how modern Trek takes a laissez-faire approach to canon anyways, I

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I'm saying that there are a lot of things that don't work anymore. Kahn alone couldn't be canon today.
    Don't really see the problem of the show having an alternate history.

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    There are also a lot of decisions, especially in recent years, that a lot of fans don't like. Like Michael Burnham. There can be a universe were Spock has a human sister without it necessarily being TOS version.
    Seeing how Spock never talked about his family (literally, every time we meet his family or it comes up in some way, Kirk and McCoy are completely in the dark), frankly him having as foster sister he never mentioned was perfectly consistent with canon even before the show invented a reason to "justify" it.

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    But the problems mostly stem from the technology. How do we retrofit this old TV show into a franchise where touchscreens existed first?
    Currently, the answer is to just make the new shows conform to modern sensibilities, even if it means breaking canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    It makes more sense to adopt the superhero route and have each series simply be it's own universe. Even when TNG came out, a lot of old school fans didn't like ti being forced into the same universe as TOS.
    Dunno, unlike Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Star Trek's lore is more geared for expanding on what they already have then reimagining the same things over and over again. Also, seeing how their current answer is to just make canon and continuity optional, it kinda resolves the situation.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I'm saying that there are a lot of things that don't work anymore. Kahn alone couldn't be canon today. There are also a lot of decisions, especially in recent years, that a lot of fans don't like. Like Michael Burnham. There can be a universe were Spock has a human sister without it necessarily being TOS version. But the problems mostly stem from the technology. How do we retrofit this old TV show into a franchise where touchscreens existed first? It makes more sense to adopt the superhero route and have each series simply be it's own universe. Even when TNG came out, a lot of old school fans didn't like ti being forced into the same universe as TOS.
    I see. I just kinda accepted the whole tech thing being different. Thw secret sister thing was kinda pointless though

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I see. I just kinda accepted the whole tech thing being different. Thw secret sister thing was kinda pointless though
    He had a brother too.


    Star Trek already has a multiverse. Just like Dr Who that has NEVER explained how all that stuff can happen in one universe.


    If we are going to question stuff-where are the questions for Robotech and Power Rangers?

    Robotech was three different tv shows with one that never took place on Earth (Southern Cross).

    Power Rangers where does Time Force, Mystic Force, SPD, RPM & Dino Charge fit. Most of them if not all had to take place in different realities.

    While the comic book is filling in gaps of the mystery Rangers forms that Mega Force used. While still ignoring others.

  10. #10
    Boisterously Confused
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    The best way to deal with it, IMO, is not to deal with it. Accept the stories as canon, ignore any dates on "future" history that are now in the past, allow upgrades in the tech without comment, and roll with it.

  11. #11
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Okay, hear me out. I think the ST franchise has a problem. The elephant in the room. And it is TOS. This is something that's been hanging over the franchise since at least TNG and has only gotten weirder since. A TV show made 50 years ago on a shoe string budget that used push buttons in the 23rd century doesn't work today. Shows like Enterprise and even Discovery are trying to tip toe around the fact that we've already surpassed the technology on the show and trying to shoehorn it into the larger narrative is awkward to say the least. There is also the fact that the franchise seems to be going in a direction the fans don't like. Between the Abrams movies literally trying to overwrite TOS and Discovery giving Spock a secret sister (Sybok was ridiculous enough 30 years ago), it's time to just let each show be it's own universe.

    I'm a Superman fan. But I don't think that Superman & Lois takes place in the same universe as Smallville. Or that Smallville took place in the same universe as Lois & Clark. And so forth. People are smart enough to understand the concept of the same character taking place in different universes. Hell, Warners is doing it right now with Batman. Leonard Nimoy Spock and Ethan Peck Spock don't have to be the same person. Chris Pine Kirk and William Shatner Kirk don't have to be either. You don't go from touchscreens to push buttons. It just doesn't happen. There's no way to spin it. Let TOS stand on it's own and let every other series be it's own universe. Maybe Kirk and Spock exist there. But they don't have to be the ones from TOS.
    The reason they did not do a complete restart with the 2010 Star Trek was because they knew the fans simply would not accept it.

    Even the technology of the Next Generation is getting outdated. The social attitudes of the original are enlightened 1960s attitudes that seem decades old attitudes by today's standards. The idea of the first officer of the ship being a woman is treated as something men are not ready for in "The Cage". Even TNG had an episode where a woman needed to be taken care of.

    The newer shows have already subtly rewritten history. But, going down that "restart" route, you're going to have the same problem every decade or two that real life society has passed what was supposed to be something in the far future. I think the movies handled it well as far as that part goes. Even Enterprise kind of ignored how primitive and sexist TOS was by our standards.

    I don't mind some subtle changes. Let's pretend that some of the stuff in the original did not happen exactly as it happened in the episodes. But let us please not go down this restart route officially. I don't want it to turn into Golden/ Silver/ Bronze/ Post-Crisis, etc. Star Trek.
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  12. #12
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    In terms of social awareness, I do thing ST needs to stay updated and maybe even ahead of the curve, same with technology. Idk if the multiverse is necessarily the best option. ST seems obsessed with going back to the TOS era

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    The best way to deal with it, IMO, is not to deal with it. Accept the stories as canon, ignore any dates on "future" history that are now in the past, allow upgrades in the tech without comment, and roll with it.
    I've literally seen fansites where people drive themselves mad over their inability to accept that it's just a TV show and will never be perfectly consistent (much less that some shows will be produced under the mindset that it's okay to change stuff). It's sad, really.
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  14. #14
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I've literally seen fansites where people drive themselves mad over their inability to accept that it's just a TV show and will never be perfectly consistent (much less that some shows will be produced under the mindset that it's okay to change stuff). It's sad, really.
    These things are a no win situation, You can hard reboot and "fix" the inconsistent but guess who is not going to like that the same fans who complain about consistency because one big enough change will take away the feeling the had before about show. So you can't hard fix the show and the you can't adjust the fly. You just can't win.

    I believe that stories can be improve on, So I am big believer in hard rebooting and reimagining stuff and yeah you would have screw over some continuity nerds but science and tech need to be adjusted so bite the bullet and make the fixes.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Multiverse and Alternate reality are quite a mirror in definition. Also the 2009 movie, established that the Kelvin characters are not the same as TOS characters.



    Also I think Alex Kurtzman has figured it out as talentless as he is as a writer and creator. Star Trek discovery and the spin off Strange New Worlds may be TOS prequels but he is going to expand om those prequels in such a way that, you wont even remember these are prequels to TOS.

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