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  1. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    The obvious Brexit parallels are dumb for two reasons. First as an American writer, living in the States, Howard is in absolutely no position to write critically of another country’s politics, shitty as they may be. How is this supposed to be helpful to people who actually have to live with the consequences of their government making terrible decisions for them. Secondly, there’s no real reason for Krakoa to care that the UK is pulling out of the treaty agreement. They already have a system in place for such countries, and even have an established black market in Marauders to make sure that the citizens who require Krakoan medicines still receive them. It kind of sucks for Betsy because it’s another failure, but it doesn’t really negatively affect her or Krakoa. Krakoa and Betsy do not need them, they need Krakoa and Captain Britain. Some people seem to think it could lead to a war, but the UK would lose, they more than likely don’t even have the support of their own citizens whom they are attempting to deprive of life saving medicine.
    Well she's not specifically writing about the current UK politics in the real world. We've seen writers also touch on the politics of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and others recently. Agreed on the Betsy take though.

    As for "Braddock Isle" the data page states it's disputed. It's meant to be seen as an act of war in response to the Coven claiming the lighthouse as theirs.

    I really want to see how the British people react to a murderous cult making decisions in their name. Will they rebel at the loss of the life-saving medicines? I would hope so.
    Last edited by Jbenito; 06-12-2021 at 08:32 AM.
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Well she's not specifically writing about the current UK politics in the real world. We've seen writers also touch on the politics of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and others recently. Agreed on the Betsy take though.

    As for "Braddock Isle" the data page states it's disputed. It's meant to be seen as an act of war in response to the Coven claiming the lighthouse as theirs.

    I really want to see how the British people react to a murderous cult making decisions in their name. Will they rebel at the loss of the life-saving medicines? I would hope so.
    Betsy will have to tell the British public what Coven Akhaba did and actually show them she’s interested in being a hero for Britain.

    She has not, and it’s the only reason why Coven Akhaba was so successful. Instead of wasting time with Malice she should have been dealing with Otherworld and Britain. Though this was clearly a deliberate failure as written by the writer, who obviously wanted Betsy to have to deal with the ramifications of her poor decisions.

  3. #138
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Well she's not specifically writing about the current UK politics in the real world. We've seen writers also touch on the politics of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and others recently. Agreed on the Betsy take though.

    As for "Braddock Isle" the data page states it's disputed. It's meant to be seen as an act of war in response to the Coven claiming the lighthouse as theirs.

    I really want to see how the British people react to a murderous cult making decisions in their name. Will they rebel at the loss of the life-saving medicines? I would hope so.
    The brexit parallels seem pretty obvious to me, it's not subtle. It doesn't help the one time we've seen the citizens of the UK in this book they were holding a bigoted anti-mutant rally. The glimpses of other political stories dealing with other countries we've seen feel different to me because they aren't making such an obvious analogy to a real world event as much as a fictional, general, and honestly fairly superficial, conflict.

    Something I forgot to say was that I did think the Betsy and Rachel dance was very cute, even if I don't really ship the two. It was kinda queerbait-y, but I don't hold that against Howard.

    And since this apparently needs to said, I don't hate Tini Howard. I don't know her, but from what I've read and heard in interviews and podcasts, she seems like a lovely person. She's very funny, and clearly has a deep passion for and knowledge of these characters. Unfortunately, I don't think that translates to her writing.

  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Betsy will have to tell the British public what Coven Akhaba did and actually show them she’s interested in being a hero for Britain.

    She has not, and it’s the only reason why Coven Akhaba was so successful. Instead of wasting time with Malice she should have been dealing with Otherworld and Britain. Though this was clearly a deliberate failure as written by the writer, who obviously wanted Betsy to have to deal with the ramifications of her poor decisions.
    Agreed. It's time for her to make a major stand because whether deliberate or not, her absence has now led to the severing of ties with an allied nation. Emma was livid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    The brexit parallels seem pretty obvious to me, it's not subtle. It doesn't help the one time we've seen the citizens of the UK in this book they were holding a bigoted anti-mutant rally. The glimpses of other political stories dealing with other countries we've seen feel different to me because they aren't making such an obvious analogy to a real world event as much as a fictional, general, and honestly fairly superficial, conflict.

    Something I forgot to say was that I did think the Betsy and Rachel dance was very cute, even if I don't really ship the two. It was kinda queerbait-y, but I don't hold that against Howard.

    And since this apparently needs to said, I don't hate Tini Howard. I don't know her, but from what I've read and heard in interviews and podcasts, she seems like a lovely person. She's very funny, and clearly has a deep passion for and knowledge of these characters. Unfortunately, I don't think that translates to her writing.
    I love this kind of insight, I really do. Well said.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  5. #140

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    Honestly some fans will call any interaction between two characters of the same gender that isn't making out queerbait. Not every fan ship can be canon.

  6. #141
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    While it was an awesome feat showing Rictor accepting his power and potential (though, he could have moved it further way from the mainland)...I would have loved it if Krakoa also played a part in relocating and establishing Braddock Isle...just so that it's not disputed, at all.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  7. #142
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    It would still be disputed because it would be Krakoa taking a chunk of Britain and saying this is ours now. It would probably be considered more definitively to be an act of war, because then it’s officially the krakoan government annexing British territory it and not just Rictor.

    This was just weird. Gambit’s reasoning for staying don’t make sense, that’s probably not Howard’s fault, she likely got marching orders from Dugan. Betsy has, objectively been a bad captain Britain and clearly put Krakoan interests above them. She basically helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install a puppet ruler for Krakoa. Her big stand up to the jerk speech, ‘Krakoa defended otherworld against a demon army (she help apocalypse make the portals that brought the demon army there) a ‘witch breed’ sits on the throne of Avalon! (Because she helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install him there) You can’t even get to Camelot without going through me and mine! (Because you made it that way.)

    Getting shattered wasn’t really her fault, but then she didn’t want to come back and wanted to haunt a well instead, lol. But because Coven akkaba was the ones to say it, we are supposed to disagree. And shatterstar shows up covered in blood, you think Rictor’s first response would what happened? (You would also think X-factor should have given them a heads upÂ…) It’s all just…doesn’t make much sense.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    It would still be disputed because it would be Krakoa taking a chunk of Britain and saying this is ours now. It would probably be considered more definitively to be an act of war, because then it’s officially the krakoan government annexing British territory it and not just Rictor.

    This was just weird. Gambit’s reasoning for staying don’t make sense, that’s probably not Howard’s fault, she likely got marching orders from Dugan. Betsy has, objectively been a bad captain Britain and clearly put Krakoan interests above them. She basically helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install a puppet ruler for Krakoa. Her big stand up to the jerk speech, ‘Krakoa defended otherworld against a demon army (she help apocalypse make the portals that brought the demon army there) a ‘witch breed’ sits on the throne of Avalon! (Because she helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install him there) You can’t even get to Camelot without going through me and mine! (Because you made it that way.)

    Getting shattered wasn’t really her fault, but then she didn’t want to come back and wanted to haunt a well instead, lol. But because Coven akkaba was the ones to say it, we are supposed to disagree. And shatterstar shows up covered in blood, you think Rictor’s first response would what happened? (You would also think X-factor should have given them a heads upÂ…) It’s all just…doesn’t make much sense.
    Yeah, from the perspective of a Marvel Universe UK citizen going from Brian to Elizabeth has been a straight up downgrade. Just from the events they're aware of it doesn't look good at all. For those aware of the moves she's made in and related to Otherworld? She has consistently functioned as a Krakoan tool for expansion and control. Sort of like wearing the UK's flag while doing the work of another country. Of course people would be immediately distrusting and bring up the question if she's actually loyal.

  9. #144
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    More than likely Saturnyne could intercede and clear up all that shyt and put those Coven ass-wipes in their proper place but...she's too busy being petty and pathetic.

    All the more reason I hope Betsy and Excalibur eventually show up and show out. So far they seem to be flying by the seat of their pants and just reacting...time for that is done. They need to regroup and finally prove they're worthy of the name Excalibur and o--[A]--o's legacy.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    It would still be disputed because it would be Krakoa taking a chunk of Britain and saying this is ours now. It would probably be considered more definitively to be an act of war, because then it’s officially the krakoan government annexing British territory it and not just Rictor.

    This was just weird. Gambit’s reasoning for staying don’t make sense, that’s probably not Howard’s fault, she likely got marching orders from Dugan. Betsy has, objectively been a bad captain Britain and clearly put Krakoan interests above them. She basically helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install a puppet ruler for Krakoa. Her big stand up to the jerk speech, ‘Krakoa defended otherworld against a demon army (she help apocalypse make the portals that brought the demon army there) a ‘witch breed’ sits on the throne of Avalon! (Because she helped Apocalypse take over Avalon and install him there) You can’t even get to Camelot without going through me and mine! (Because you made it that way.)

    Getting shattered wasn’t really her fault, but then she didn’t want to come back and wanted to haunt a well instead, lol. But because Coven akkaba was the ones to say it, we are supposed to disagree. And shatterstar shows up covered in blood, you think Rictor’s first response would what happened? (You would also think X-factor should have given them a heads upÂ…) It’s all just…doesn’t make much sense.
    She also told Gambit to throw Candra’s ruby to Apocalyose. Without that, there would not have been the External gate.

    Before that Saturnyne had said if you want to defend my castle, you may begin now.

    So Betsy has to undo a lot of damage in her relationship to Otherworld, Saturnyne, and Britain.

    And I’m sure Emma is going to let Betsy have it for her unprofessional behavior.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    More than likely Saturnyne could intercede and clear up all that shyt and put those Coven ass-wipes in their proper place but...she's too busy being petty and pathetic.

    All the more reason I hope Betsy and Excalibur eventually show up and show out. So far they seem to be flying by the seat of their pants and just reacting...time for that is done. They need to regroup and finally prove they're worthy of the name Excalibur and o--[A]--o's legacy.
    Saturnyne could do that, but it’s Captain Britain’s job. Betsy is going to have to prove herself.

    I think Tini had Betsy make some strategic mistakes so that it would be imperative that she prove herself by addressing them.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    I’m still fuming over Williams giving Howard the ingredients for a most excellent reunion and Howard instead delivering this steaming pile of comic, so here are all the other ways in which this issue was an utter disaster.

    Betsy’s time as Captain so far has been defined by failure, and Howard handed her another one in this issue. Are we supposed to be agreeing with Saturnyne and Coven Akkaba? Because the narrative that Howard has constructed supports their belief that Betsy is a terrible Captain and probably shouldn’t hold the title. Howard seems to think that failure and struggle make for better storytelling, and she is wrong. I’m not saying that Betsy should be perfect or infallible, but there needs to be a balance and I can’t think of a single win she has had as Captain.

    The obvious Brexit parallels are dumb for two reasons. First as an American writer, living in the States, Howard is in absolutely no position to write critically of another country’s politics, shitty as they may be. How is this supposed to be helpful to people who actually have to live with the consequences of their government making terrible decisions for them. Secondly, there’s no real reason for Krakoa to care that the UK is pulling out of the treaty agreement. They already have a system in place for such countries, and even have an established black market in Marauders to make sure that the citizens who require Krakoan medicines still receive them. It kind of sucks for Betsy because it’s another failure, but it doesn’t really negatively affect her or Krakoa. Krakoa and Betsy do not need them, they need Krakoa and Captain Britain. Some people seem to think it could lead to a war, but the UK would lose, they more than likely don’t even have the support of their own citizens whom they are attempting to deprive of life saving medicine.

    With Rogue leaving the team, it opened up a space for Meggan to step in and get some good focus and development. Instead Howard has decided to saddle the character with another pregnancy and baby. Which will make it more difficult for future writers to use her.

    I don’t even particularly like Pete Wisdom, but she wrote him so poorly. A professional secret agent with years of experience just blindly follows an anti-mutant cult to their secret lair with no back up or plan of escape? Dumb. Then when the baseline, powerless humans begin to attack him he puts up almost no defense whatsoever? Dumb. The man has superpowers and combat training.

    The druids are a stupid, unnecessary plot device. The entire premise of this book is supposedly to establish a unique mutant magic. Instead, Howard keeps attempting to define Rictor as a druid. A very human, very British magic tribe. If she is going to constantly ignore her own premise and refer to magic in human terms, the least she could do is connect Rictor’s magic use to his actual Mexican culture, instead of trying to force this druid identity that makes no sense. The Rictor I know would tell these losers to f*** off.

    And then there’s “Braddock Isle”. Howard does know that a piece of land becoming an island doesn’t make it an independent nation, right? It would still absolutely belong to the UK. This is like, flying island headquarters dumb. And that scene near the end with Morgan Le Fay was really poorly staged. She’s right there, Rictor acknowledges her little flashy lights, and then just ignores it? And all the druids who were also right there, and can sense magic, also did nothing?

    I do enjoy the Braddock sibling dynamic and Otherworld expansion, Howard does those very well. The book should have more of that, less of everything else. I also really enjoy To’s art, although I don’t care for Jubilee or Gambit’s Gala outfits.
    Every little bit of this. Everything is spot on with this assessment of this book and this issue itself.

  13. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    More than likely Saturnyne could intercede and clear up all that shyt and put those Coven ass-wipes in their proper place but...she's too busy being petty and pathetic.

    All the more reason I hope Betsy and Excalibur eventually show up and show out. So far they seem to be flying by the seat of their pants and just reacting...time for that is done. They need to regroup and finally prove they're worthy of the name Excalibur and o--[A]--o's legacy.
    Agreed. This is the perfect opportunity for Betsy to have a true win. She's spiraled enough, it's time for the comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Saturnyne could do that, but it’s Captain Britain’s job. Betsy is going to have to prove herself.

    I think Tini had Betsy make some strategic mistakes so that it would be imperative that she prove herself by addressing them.
    Exactly this.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  14. #149
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    Perhaps, then the question becomes how long and how many more mistakes will she make before she starts addressing them, and will the writer get the time to address all of them and will the result be good or bungled...I don't have much if any faith in the writer to fix things...

  15. #150
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    The ending with Rictor just boggles my mind. In response to the weirdly civil and proper way the UK government ended relations with Krakoa, Rictor walks off and commits an act of war by trying to annex part of the UK. Even if people would be upset at losing the medicine, literally removing part of the country is a pretty good way to get everyone to hate you. Its like, the clearest, most direct act of war a country can do, and done publicly against one of the leading superpowers in the world. That's a major escalation of what was going on, and its probably not going to be treated as anywhere near as big a deal as it actually would be.

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