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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    I like the Braddock sibling dynamic and that Otherworld is expanded.

    And when I say I'd want it cancelled I mean refreshed and rebooted with a new creative team. Not that it matters. But yeah.
    You have criticisms and I respect them. You're not one of the posters who comes in and says "THIS IS TRASH!" and nothing else. How can anyone converse with that, you know? It's just rude.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  2. #122
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    When people want it “canceled” most of us just want a reboot with a different creative team. Maybe a team that makes sense in how they’ve come together? That they have a past and connection that’s real and visible and not us just being told they have one. Most of this team is family in one way or another and it’s hard to see the connection through the series that most of the cast has shared. I follow the series and buy it because I like the characters and a fan of Betsy. I always have hood that there will be improvement. Sometimes when I think I’m getting some, it’s killed by something so OOC for the cast that I don’t even know these people.

    And no one dislikes the writing because Tini is a woman. I hate when people try to throw stuff like that out there. I’ve said she has good ideas, but the writing and execution of it is awful. Im glad some people enjoy it. As a writer, she just isn’t killing it every book. It’s the story, the characters and their characterizations and muddled ideas.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnap22 View Post
    When people want it “canceled” most of us just want a reboot with a different creative team. Maybe a team that makes sense in how they’ve come together? That they have a past and connection that’s real and visible and not us just being told they have one. Most of this team is family in one way or another and it’s hard to see the connection through the series that most of the cast has shared. I follow the series and buy it because I like the characters and a fan of Betsy. I always have hood that there will be improvement. Sometimes when I think I’m getting some, it’s killed by something so OOC for the cast that I don’t even know these people.
    And see for me I just roll with it. Some say they don't understand why Jubliee is in the book but she and Betsy have been friends for years and this moment especially felt like a precursor, to me. Jubes happened to be around when things were going down in Otherworld and she tagged along to be with her friend. I would do the same thing.



    Jubes knows Betsy is still finding her way in her original body so she wants to be around for her. Krakoa was new when the book started, there was no "X-Men" so the mutants were just establishing connections with who they wanted. Rogue and Betsy have history so they all just decided to stay connected while other cliques and groups formed around the island. That's how I see it because I really don't need a "reason" to be with my friends and help them out. But I get what you mean and what others have said too, I just view it differently. I'm glad you're still getting the book though.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinman View Post
    I don't believe it has anything to do with the fact that tini is a female. Kelly Thompson received very high marks all across this forum because what she wrote was brilliant. Excalibur has been abysmal in terms of both storytelling and character growth. Most of this book happens off panel, characterizations thrown out the window, "plot" points really go nowhere, this book has been one of my least favorite reads featuring one of my favorite casts.

    I dont think anyone cares the gender of the creative team as long as they are doing something... creative. Tini has done none of these characters any favors, save maybe rictor in terms of his abilities (only to throw his character in the toilet). I think it is sad that x-factor is being canceled when Leah actually did character research and seems to enjoy her team while this rubbish lives on to tell another tale (or not because nothing actually happens in this book).
    100% this. I loved what Kelly did and her characters definitely had emotional drama and imperfections. Same with Leah Williams. X-Factor was great and didn't deserve to be canceled. Definitely not a "paint by numbers" series and one that received plenty of praise on this site.

    And it's rather presumptuous to lump all CBR users together as cishet male readers who want a female writers to fail or cowtow (I'm none of those things).

    Sorry, but Tini doesn't do what these other female writers (or other successful writers in general) do for their characters and that's what people are responding to.

    And if anyone else here remembers the justifiably scathing criticism that X-Men: Gold received on this forum, then they'd realize that white cishet male writers also receive similar criticism when their work isn't hitting the mark.

    I have quit and re-tried this book numerous times only because my favorite characters are trapped here and only here. I can't read them in other current books. Otherwise I would not come back at all.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    And see for me I just roll with it. Some say they don't understand why Jubliee is in the book but she and Betsy have been friends for years and this moment especially felt like a precursor, to me. Jubes happened to be around when things were going down in Otherworld and she tagged along to be with her friend. I would do the same thing.



    Jubes knows Betsy is still finding her way in her original body so she wants to be around for her. Krakoa was new when the book started, there was no "X-Men" so the mutants were just establishing connections with who they wanted. Rogue and Betsy have history so they all just decided to stay connected while other cliques and groups formed around the island. That's how I see it because I really don't need a "reason" to be with my friends and help them out. But I get what you mean and what others have said too, I just view it differently. I'm glad you're still getting the book though.
    I miss Betsy in purple and pink...and looking like a gorgeous grown woman.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  6. #126
    Incredible Member The BaRoN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    How can Brian not realize that Meggan is pregnant again, from all of that?

    Maybe he’s “too close” to her to realize the obvious.
    But I mean, c’mon, it’s ssssoooooo obvious.
    Love it, more of these two.

    Keep the stalking creep kurt away from her.

    Also Wisdom better be alive, I’m liking his relationship with Betsy in this run.

  7. #127
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    These threads have stopped debating the issues. We are mostly talking past each other. Either you don't like it and you are getting nowhere or you like it and are tired of the people not liking it posting about it. That is where the debate is. Can't we just seperate the two issues. A comic can be good and you don't like it and the opposite. I have favorite issues or arcs that might be 6/10 but the reasons I like them outweigh the obvious faults.

    Excalibur have obvious faults. Still we aren't stating these things so we can move the discussion forward. As an example: Gambit and Jubilee arent' doing much at all and they are 2/5 part of the cast. Aknowledge and it move the discussion forward. You can like it and still feel that it's failing here. That is if we actually want less pages in these threads and we aren't just feeding the flame.

  8. #128
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    They're open bigots who hate mutants and have been since the beginning. So to me that vitiates any of their "arguments" because they're based on hate and makes their intentions to improve their country flimsy.
    That's a whole trope in an of itself. Strawman has a Point, the Worst Person You Know Was Right, etc. plus its hard to really hate any kind of mutant-hating group when they're primarily going up against Apocalypse and the results of his schemes. Usually these books have the mutant hating people going after the innocent ones in order to make them look bad. Its honestly kind of refreshing and weird to see those kinds of people actually oppose the dangerous and evil mutants.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's a whole trope in an of itself. Strawman has a Point, the Worst Person You Know Was Right, etc. plus its hard to really hate any kind of mutant-hating group when they're primarily going up against Apocalypse and the results of his schemes. Usually these books have the mutant hating people going after the innocent ones in order to make them look bad. Its honestly kind of refreshing and weird to see those kinds of people actually oppose the dangerous and evil mutants.
    And in this case they've taken the meds away, essentially killing a whole bunch of their own citizens. They don't care about their country, they just want to end mutants even if it means sacrificing their own. Evil. Plus...



    Now citizens of Avalon are dead thanks to the people calling the shots for Britain. Evil.
    Last edited by Jbenito; 06-11-2021 at 06:22 PM.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  10. #130
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    I'm not arguing that they're secretly the heroes. And those were Krakoans they killed. it had to be mutants they sacrificed for that.

    There's plenty of reasons to not want the medicine besides just hating mutants. Its frankly weirder that almost every nation on Earth signed up for them like they did. Just look at how hard it has been to convince some people to get vaccinated, and now magnify it by people already hating mutants, and the medicine being made is made in secret, from materials no one is allowed to study, and introduced by one of the least trustworthy billionaires on the planet. Its been a weird background plot point that they've largely ignored in all books that really should have gotten more focus by now. Hell I think they mentioned there being side effects in that summit issue, but we never heard any details. Are they just not working? Resulting in flu and flu-like symptoms? Or are they turning people into plant monsters? No clue!

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    And see for me I just roll with it. Some say they don't understand why Jubliee is in the book but she and Betsy have been friends for years and this moment especially felt like a precursor, to me. Jubes happened to be around when things were going down in Otherworld and she tagged along to be with her friend. I would do the same thing.

    Jubes knows Betsy is still finding her way in her original body so she wants to be around for her. Krakoa was new when the book started, there was no "X-Men" so the mutants were just establishing connections with who they wanted. Rogue and Betsy have history so they all just decided to stay connected while other cliques and groups formed around the island. That's how I see it because I really don't need a "reason" to be with my friends and help them out. But I get what you mean and what others have said too, I just view it differently. I'm glad you're still getting the book though.
    I don't understand why Jubilee is in the book when she doesn't do anything in the book. Same goes for Gambit and Rogue.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by The BaRoN View Post
    Love it, more of these two.

    Keep the stalking creep kurt away from her.

    Also Wisdom better be alive, I’m liking his relationship with Betsy in this run.
    Since he's a mutant, he'll get resurrected soon.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I'm not arguing that they're secretly the heroes. And those were Krakoans they killed. it had to be mutants they sacrificed for that.

    There's plenty of reasons to not want the medicine besides just hating mutants. Its frankly weirder that almost every nation on Earth signed up for them like they did. Just look at how hard it has been to convince some people to get vaccinated, and now magnify it by people already hating mutants, and the medicine being made is made in secret, from materials no one is allowed to study, and introduced by one of the least trustworthy billionaires on the planet. Its been a weird background plot point that they've largely ignored in all books that really should have gotten more focus by now. Hell I think they mentioned there being side effects in that summit issue, but we never heard any details. Are they just not working? Resulting in flu and flu-like symptoms? Or are they turning people into plant monsters? No clue!
    I'd actually enjoy learning more about the medicines and how they are impacting humanity. We've seen some testimonials of them saving human lives and Delores here I believe was in attendance at the Gala too.



    The Coven are taking these miracles away from their own people out of spite.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  14. #134
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    I’m still fuming over Williams giving Howard the ingredients for a most excellent reunion and Howard instead delivering this steaming pile of comic, so here are all the other ways in which this issue was an utter disaster.

    Betsy’s time as Captain so far has been defined by failure, and Howard handed her another one in this issue. Are we supposed to be agreeing with Saturnyne and Coven Akkaba? Because the narrative that Howard has constructed supports their belief that Betsy is a terrible Captain and probably shouldn’t hold the title. Howard seems to think that failure and struggle make for better storytelling, and she is wrong. I’m not saying that Betsy should be perfect or infallible, but there needs to be a balance and I can’t think of a single win she has had as Captain.

    The obvious Brexit parallels are dumb for two reasons. First as an American writer, living in the States, Howard is in absolutely no position to write critically of another country’s politics, shitty as they may be. How is this supposed to be helpful to people who actually have to live with the consequences of their government making terrible decisions for them. Secondly, there’s no real reason for Krakoa to care that the UK is pulling out of the treaty agreement. They already have a system in place for such countries, and even have an established black market in Marauders to make sure that the citizens who require Krakoan medicines still receive them. It kind of sucks for Betsy because it’s another failure, but it doesn’t really negatively affect her or Krakoa. Krakoa and Betsy do not need them, they need Krakoa and Captain Britain. Some people seem to think it could lead to a war, but the UK would lose, they more than likely don’t even have the support of their own citizens whom they are attempting to deprive of life saving medicine.

    With Rogue leaving the team, it opened up a space for Meggan to step in and get some good focus and development. Instead Howard has decided to saddle the character with another pregnancy and baby. Which will make it more difficult for future writers to use her.

    I don’t even particularly like Pete Wisdom, but she wrote him so poorly. A professional secret agent with years of experience just blindly follows an anti-mutant cult to their secret lair with no back up or plan of escape? Dumb. Then when the baseline, powerless humans begin to attack him he puts up almost no defense whatsoever? Dumb. The man has superpowers and combat training.

    The druids are a stupid, unnecessary plot device. The entire premise of this book is supposedly to establish a unique mutant magic. Instead, Howard keeps attempting to define Rictor as a druid. A very human, very British magic tribe. If she is going to constantly ignore her own premise and refer to magic in human terms, the least she could do is connect Rictor’s magic use to his actual Mexican culture, instead of trying to force this druid identity that makes no sense. The Rictor I know would tell these losers to f*** off.

    And then there’s “Braddock Isle”. Howard does know that a piece of land becoming an island doesn’t make it an independent nation, right? It would still absolutely belong to the UK. This is like, flying island headquarters dumb. And that scene near the end with Morgan Le Fay was really poorly staged. She’s right there, Rictor acknowledges her little flashy lights, and then just ignores it? And all the druids who were also right there, and can sense magic, also did nothing?

    I do enjoy the Braddock sibling dynamic and Otherworld expansion, Howard does those very well. The book should have more of that, less of everything else. I also really enjoy To’s art, although I don’t care for Jubilee or Gambit’s Gala outfits.

  15. #135
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    Betsy has delayed dealing with her British and her Otherworld responsibilities since her return. She’s going to have to settle things with Saturnyne and make a public statement to Britain.

    Coven Akhaba had a point, it did look like she abandoned her responsibilities. And she been more proactive, she could have stopped Marianna from summoning Morgan Le Fay.

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