View Poll Results: Favorite origin?

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  • All-Star

    8 18.18%
  • Birthright

    14 31.82%
  • New 52 Action Comics

    13 29.55%
  • American Alien

    2 4.55%
  • Year One

    2 4.55%
  • Byrne Man of Steel

    15 34.09%
  • Earth One

    3 6.82%
  • Secret Origin

    3 6.82%
  • Other Comic

    9 20.45%
  • Adaptation (Smallville, Movies, etc)

    7 15.91%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I loved American Alien
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
    DC: Green Lantern, Wonder Girl, Far Sector, The Other History of the DC Universe, The Next Batamn, Robin, Nightwing
    Marvel: HiXmen, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Daredevil
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  2. #32
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    In my more petty moments, I get annoyed that there's all this stuff from the classic Superboy comics that we got, because of Superboy, but then they want to take the Superboy out of the story. No. I will not put up with it.

    If you are going to call Luthor (a one name villain), Lex Luthor--then that's the guy that was introduced in a Superboy story. The other guy should have some other name or just be Luthor (which serves both as a first name and a last name). From Lex Luthor then also comes the concept of Lena Thorul, Lexor, Lexorian battle armour, etc.

    Likewise, you can't have these other products of classic Superboy stories:

    • Smallville
    • Jonathan and Martha
    • Lana Lang
    • Krypto
    • The Legion of Super-Heroes
    • Pete Ross
    • The Phantom Zone
    • General Zod
    • Mon-El
    • The Superman Revenge Squad
    WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    think the best compromise would be to put Lex in Smallville for either one school year or one summer vacation.
    Not a sufficient compromise for me. I object to Lex predating Lois, the Daily Planet, or Clark being Superman. It makes him more central/important/with more history than the ones that should come first to me. Also, I do not like any sort of personal relationship with Clark. Others will undoubtedly object that's too late or too short a prior relationship. But then, compromise is the art of no one getting what they want, I guess.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Favorite is definitely New 52 Action, specifically the first arc.

    Least favorite would be Byrne's MOS and Secret Origin. The former for clearing away the previous canon and establishing replacements/trends I really don't like. The latter gets some points for bringing back the pre-Crisis stuff but otherwise is just unremarkable in every way beyond art. MOS despite it's faults seems more ambitious for what it was at the time it came out at least, SO is just by the numbers.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I've thought for a while now that they should just go back to the pre-Crisis Superman just to make things simpler. Ditto Donna Troy. They rebooted him 35 years ago and within a decade they were looking for ways around the rules they put in place after the reboot. And not doing that has just created more problems than it solved. Make him married to Lois in a ceremony similar to the official wedding that we didn't see and just kind of move on. Does anyone even know what his current origin is? What are the rules of continuity these days? Choose your own continuity? They keep trying to find ways to incorporate things from the pre-Crisis origin back into his history but they won't just pull the trigger and bring it back altogether. It's obvious they want to.
    Greenlight the Smallville animated series, WB!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I've thought for a while now that they should just go back to the pre-Crisis Superman just to make things simpler. Ditto Donna Troy. They rebooted him 35 years ago and within a decade they were looking for ways around the rules they put in place after the reboot. And not doing that has just created more problems than it solved. Make him married to Lois in a ceremony similar to the official wedding that we didn't see and just kind of move on. Does anyone even know what his current origin is? What are the rules of continuity these days? Choose your own continuity? They keep trying to find ways to incorporate things from the pre-Crisis origin back into his history but they won't just pull the trigger and bring it back altogether. It's obvious they want to.
    Current origins? Mostly pre-Flashpoint. Which one? I have no idea. I remember reading Superman Reborn used Secret Origins.

  7. #37
    Amazing Member Alkaeus's Avatar
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    It occurred to me a poll might be good fit for the thread, so I added one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    As to the topic. My favorites would be Byrne's MOS and Snyder's MOS. Those are the ones that I revisit the most. With Birthright being a strong runner up. I just lose it with the faux-Kryptonian invasion.
    I'm curious, what about it doesn't work for you?

  8. #38
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    Favorite? Hm. Either Action Comics #1 (1938) or Superman #1 (1939, strips), Siegel really fleshed out Superman's origins in the strips. Least favorite? Most canonical modern deceptions. This isn't to say I don't like modern deceptions. I think Waid had the best storytelling in has canonical origins. Johns's SO was mediocre, didn't care for anything he did in it. Morrison AC run, I don't know how to describe it. It's not bad, but ugh. He did too much for me. Then there was that boring issue with Calvin Harris.

    Just remembered Byrne's MOS. If I had to pick, I'll put MOS over John's SO.
    Last edited by DABellWrites; 06-28-2021 at 04:00 PM.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaeus View Post
    It occurred to me a poll might be good fit for the thread, so I added one.



    I'm curious, what about it doesn't work for you?
    It’s a bit of a stupid elaborate plan for Luthor to pull off against Superman on his first day. The plots with the Kryptonite shard, talking to ghosts from Krypton and framing Superman were good. Luthor building dozens of suits of armor, hiring actors/mercenaries, building tanks, deciphering Kryptonian language to broadcast, projecting holograms of giant spiders and an armada, and staging a fake invasion of Metropolis; is a bit involved. Its hard to believe Lex would do that in his first encounter with Superman.

    It’s like Waid wanted a day one battle against Zod like we saw with MOS. Add in the callbacks Birthright makes to Superman TM and Superman II. You get a sense that’s what Waid was going for. But he seemingly didn’t want to do it, because Lex is very involved with the Smallville portion of the comic and the Metropolis portions. So Lex is made the big bad with a plan that’s out of step for him, IMO.
    Last edited by Doctor Know; 06-19-2021 at 04:35 AM.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    It’s a bit of a stupid elaborate plan for Luthor to pull off against Superman on his first day. The plots with the Kryptonite shard, talking to ghosts from Krypton and framing Superman were good. Luthor building dozens of suits of armor, hiring actors/mercenaries, building tanks, deciphering Kryptonian language to broadcast, projecting holograms of giant spiders and an armada, and staging a fake invasion of Metropolis; is a bit involved. Its hard to believe Lex would do that in his first encounter with Superman.

    It’s like Waid wanted a day one battle against Zod like we saw with MOS. Add in the callbacks Birthright makes to Superman TM and Superman II. You get a sense that’s what Waid was going for. But he seemingly didn’t want to do it, because Lex is very involved with the Smallville portion of the comic and the Metropolis portions. So Lex is made the big bad with a plan that’s out of step for him, IMO.
    The fake invasion is what’s always killed the second half of BR for me also.

  11. #41
    Amazing Member Alkaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    It’s a bit of a stupid elaborate plan for Luthor to pull off against Superman on his first day. The plots with the Kryptonite shard, talking to ghosts from Krypton and framing Superman were good. Luthor building dozens of suits of armor, hiring actors/mercenaries, building tanks, deciphering Kryptonian language to broadcast, projecting holograms of giant spiders and an armada, and staging a fake invasion of Metropolis; is a bit involved. Its hard to believe Lex would do that in his first encounter with Superman.

    It’s like Waid wanted a day one battle against Zod like we saw with MOS. Add in the callbacks Birthright makes to Superman TM and Superman II. You get a sense that’s what Waid was going for. But he seemingly didn’t want to do it, because Lex is very involved with the Smallville portion of the comic and the Metropolis portions. So Lex is made the big bad with a plan that’s out of step for him, IMO.
    Thank you for the response. I can definitely understand that complaint.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Can't really top the original origin from 38, and the expanded version from 39.

    Voted for Morrison's Action, since the OG's weren't an option. It's a damn near perfect update to the original origin and, most importantly, keeps the spirit of the Golden Age social crusader intact while updating it for contemporary audiences and manifesting the publication journey through the Silver and Bronze Ages. Morrison's run is one of the best Superman stories ever told and I will die on that hill. Come fight me!

    After that it's Birthright. That story did a better job of explaining Clark's character and rationalizing his transition into Superman than any other work I've come across. But the second half kind of ruins it for me, and my reasoning isn't far off from Doctor Know's; it's too weird and convoluted a move for Lex to make on his first outing as a villain, and I don't think "defends earth from a pretend invasion of his own long-dead people" is a viable first battle for a definitive origin. That's the kind of thing that should come a little later, when the world has come to trust Superman but he's still new enough to the scene that a "betrayal" story can carry real stakes. Like, that should've been a "year two" kinda thing.

    American Alien and Year One both have some really good ideas sprinkled throughout that I wouldn't mind seeing used again (Clark failing out of the navy, wearing glasses just because he actually needs them), but as a whole both of them leave a lot to be desired and have a whole lot of stuff that might work as a Elseworlds but doesn't fit for an "authentic" origin.

    The only good thing about Johns' Secret Origin is that it is so bland and flavorless it can be slotted into virtually any version of Superman and not change the taste. It's so inoffensive I'm actually offended by its toneless, tasteless banality. It's not a narrative, just a checklist of things from Clark's history. The fact that Johns got paid to write that actually makes me a little mad. I like a lot of Johns' work, but he should never, ever be allowed anywhere near Clark or the Superman franchise, ever. He's one of the worst Super writers of the modern era and given the crap talent we've had over the last few decades, that is saying a lot.

    All-Star's one-page origin is rightly famous for being the best, most condensed version of the tale, but it's not truly an origin in my mind, merely a recap. And I don't consider Smashes the Klan a origin tale either, even though it deals with Clark coming to terms with where he came from and his Otherness. Smash is a gem in the world of Super stories, one of the best ever written, but it's not truly a origin story in my mind.

    Byrne's MoS and Earth One both feel like they were created from the standpoint that Superman is out dated no longer viable, and these were both efforts to create something more grounded and "mature" but they succeed only in sucking all the fantastical and magical elements out of the franchise, leaving us with a dead-eyed Superman who occupies a barren world made up of the dead dreams of children. And I'll never forgive Byrne for throwing out everything SUPER about Superman, taking all the pathos and gravitas of the character with him in favor of a Marvel-ization that made Clark the least interesting thing in his world. Both MoS and E-1 have good moments and quality scenes, but as a whole they leave a lot to be desired.

    I think the Smallville tv show started off with a quality approach to Clark's early days but the show was handicapped by it's "no flight, no tights" rule and dragged on too long, and the end result was Clark being the most reluctant hero in history, which isn't a good look for the Man of Tomorrow. That's a Clark Kent who never wanted to be Superman in the first place, and I cannot abide such a thing.

    Snyder's MoS film got a lot more right than some people give it credit for, but it too gave us a Clark who was far too reluctant/ashamed to become who he was meant to be, spent too much time naval gazing, and didn't have nearly enough fun or agency.
    Last edited by Ascended; 06-19-2021 at 11:00 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Ah you just like that post because I was mean to Johns and Byrne.

    I was being hyperbolic and silly there (George Carlin called it "playing the dozens") but re-reading the post they did come across as pretty douchey things to say. Apologies to misters Johns and Byrne. Neither of them should ever be allowed near Clark or his setting ever again because I *was* legit about that part, but both are quality talent I usually enjoy and respect and I'm sure they're both fine people. As long as they're not on Superman.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ah you just like that post because I was mean to Johns and Byrne.

    I was being hyperbolic and silly there (George Carlin called it "playing the dozens") but re-reading the post they did come across as pretty douchey things to say. Apologies to misters Johns and Byrne. Neither of them should ever be allowed near Clark or his setting ever again because I *was* legit about that part, but both are quality talent I usually enjoy and respect and I'm sure they're both fine people. As long as they're not on Superman.
    Their creative output on Superman 100% deserves all of your meanness

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