View Poll Results: Favorite origin?

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  • All-Star

    8 18.18%
  • Birthright

    14 31.82%
  • New 52 Action Comics

    13 29.55%
  • American Alien

    2 4.55%
  • Year One

    2 4.55%
  • Byrne Man of Steel

    15 34.09%
  • Earth One

    3 6.82%
  • Secret Origin

    3 6.82%
  • Other Comic

    9 20.45%
  • Adaptation (Smallville, Movies, etc)

    7 15.91%
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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I'm right here! I just see all the hate as white noise and ignore it. In the same way I don't argue against the love for pre-Crisis Superman, which mostly does nothing for me.

    We're all Superman fans here, I don't think we all need to agree on anything more than Superman is awesome and don't be a jerk to other Superman fans.
    I think my hate for the post-Crisis Superman stemmed more from DC's attitude at the time that no other version be acknowledged. Obviously, this is no longer the case. I don't have the hate on for it that I used to. It's still not my favorite, and there are even elements of it I like, but I can look at it with a more objective eye than I could 20 years ago.
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  2. #62
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I think my hate for the post-Crisis Superman stemmed more from DC's attitude at the time that no other version be acknowledged. Obviously, this is no longer the case. I don't have the hate on for it that I used to. It's still not my favorite, and there are even elements of it I like, but I can look at it with a more objective eye than I could 20 years ago.
    Yea, I'm near the same. I loved Byrne's run at first, then I grew more disenchanted and concerned with his (and other's) "Marvelization" of Superman (like killing the PZ criminals, depowerment, etc) and DC's exclusion attitude. I grew to be more a Pre-Crisis-approach type fan (and Morrison's All Star Superman IMHO basically puts the best foot forward on how a more Pre-Crisis-Styled Superman can be done really well). And I more or less still am a Golden/Silver/Bronze-leaning fan despite really many aspects that I love with Byrne and Post-Crisis Superman, particularly Lex (pre-Crisis Lex was too soft and inconsistent) and a better focus on Superman's supporting cast, and the interconnected serialization, good modern story arcs. But Superman's marriage doesn't sit well with me because of how it impacts the classic original Clark/Supes/Lois dynamic (the marriage is big parting/break I maintain with Post-Crisis Superman). And Smallville and certain other late Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint comics showed me Lex can and absolutely should be a good mix of businessman and genuine (mad) scientist, definitely not exclusively a businessman (thus being DC's Kingpin ripoff).

    Anyway, I have a seemingly complex nuanced view of what I love and what works best for Superman for me. Fleischer shorts/Golden Age (with the Fleischer/Famous shorts being I think probably the purest best distillation of Superman), Pre-Crisis Silver/Bronze, Post-Crisis, Smallville, pre-Flashpoint's fusionary Superman that kinda merged Pre and Post Crisis Superman, All Star Superman, the Chris Reeves films, Lois and Clark, STAS, etc (but not Zach Snyder, sorry).....there are big and small things I love from so many incarnations and approaches.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 06-23-2021 at 02:08 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I'm right here! I just see all the hate as white noise and ignore it.
    I'm sorry if you see a lot of hate. I never mean to foster any hate--and when I've done that, I have felt very bad about myself for such actions.

    The fact is, in the 1980s, I was a John Byrne super-fan. He was from Canada and I was happy to see a fellow patriot doing well. I read the stuff he did at Marvel (and even before that at Charlton). I was super-excited that he was doing Superman. And I loved those comics. I also had a great admiration for Jerry Ordway, Marv Wolfman, Dan Jurgens, Karl Kesel, George Perez, Tom Grummet, Jon Bogdanove, Louise Simonson and Roger Stern. In many ways those were great times for Superman with so much talent working on him.

    But having read and enjoyed those comics, I came around to thinking that the changes were not worth it in the end. It's like before the Crisis, a lot of us fans were wishing for all of this stuff to happen. But then when it did happen, while it was an interesting take on the character, I wanted the Superman of my childhood and I was sad that he was gone.

    Probably reading Alan Moore's SUPREME is what brought it home to me. I saw how they could have introduced those changes while still keeping the classic stories in some form of continuity. They didn't need to throw out the super-baby with the bath water.

    And then there were the series of GENERATIONS books by John Byrne. I loved those--especially the first two series. Byrne showed respect to all the different versions of Superman and made them exist in one timeline. Cool. That was an imaginary story, but aren't they all.
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  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'm sorry if you see a lot of hate. I never mean to foster any hate--and when I've done that, I have felt very bad about myself for such actions.

    The fact is, in the 1980s, I was a John Byrne super-fan. He was from Canada and I was happy to see a fellow patriot doing well. I read the stuff he did at Marvel (and even before that at Charlton). I was super-excited that he was doing Superman. And I loved those comics. I also had a great admiration for Jerry Ordway, Marv Wolfman, Dan Jurgens, Karl Kesel, George Perez, Tom Grummet, Jon Bogdanove, Louise Simonson and Roger Stern. In many ways those were great times for Superman with so much talent working on him.

    But having read and enjoyed those comics, I came around to thinking that the changes were not worth it in the end. It's like before the Crisis, a lot of us fans were wishing for all of this stuff to happen. But then when it did happen, while it was an interesting take on the character, I wanted the Superman of my childhood and I was sad that he was gone.

    Probably reading Alan Moore's SUPREME is what brought it home to me. I saw how they could have introduced those changes while still keeping the classic stories in some form of continuity. They didn't need to throw out the super-baby with the bath water.

    And then there were the series of GENERATIONS books by John Byrne. I loved those--especially the first two series. Byrne showed respect to all the different versions of Superman and made them exist in one timeline. Cool. That was an imaginary story, but aren't they all.
    A lot of the stories that were told could have been told using the pre-Crisis Superman. They just weren't. Especially the early years. Ditto the marriage. This implies that the real problem with it wasn't that version of the character but that there were just too many restrictions on him. Were the changes purely cosmetic? Were they even necessary? We may never know. What we do know is that a lot of edicts that had been handed down during the pre-Crisis era were removed after the reboot.
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  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I loved Birthright. It married a lot of different concepts and gave his powers new meaning. Smallville and Krypton are both given weight, and I liked Superman's intro to Metropolis. I especially liked that Clark was an adventurer in his youth. Maybe the only thing I didn't like about it was Lex knowing he was from Krypton before Clark did.

    All-Star was awesome and beautifully simple but I will rank it below Birthright as more comprehensive.

    MOS is one of my favorite comic book movies so that's up there as well.

    I love Golden Age Superman so I imagine I'll enjoy Morrison's when I get to it.

  6. #66
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'm sorry if you see a lot of hate. I never mean to foster any hate--and when I've done that, I have felt very bad about myself for such actions.
    It's all good, mate. Post-Crisis era is very out of vogue these days so there's often shade thrown around. I worry it quietens others who might want to chat - I only mentioned it as someone seemed to be bragging about chasing off the Byrne era fans and this is already a small message board - but doesn't bother me at all. I can take a little ribbing.

    Heck, the post-Crisis era's version of the Superman Revenge Squad was such epic names as Maxima, Barrage, Riot, Misa and Anomaly, which is a damn joke unto itself.
    Just. Be. Nice.

  7. #67
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    posted to wrong thread oops
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  8. #68
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Probably reading Alan Moore's SUPREME is what brought it home to me. I saw how they could have introduced those changes while still keeping the classic stories in some form of continuity. They didn't need to throw out the super-baby with the bath water.
    Great example of a great point. I custom bound Moore's Supreme in recent years (the two (poorly-printed bare bones) trades plus portions of the regular issues to make it all fully complete) and yeah, it's definitely one of the best achievements in straddling and balancing and ironing out and being all-inclusive with a Golden/Silver-to-modern superhero (like Superman) and his likely zany history and chronology. Stunning genius by Moore where it feels like he's Grant Morrison.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 06-25-2021 at 06:12 AM.
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Byrne
    Birthright
    New 52 Action
    Smallville

    No order among those, but they all have great elements

    If I could tape them together, it would be Clark grows up in Smallville as a football player (Byrne/Smallville) before going off to college and travelling the world, even going to some war torn areas (Birthright). Then he returns home (Birthright) and leaves for an entry level job in Metropolis where he fights crooks as his powers continue to develop (New 52 Action).

    I'll add that the DCAU has my favorite introductions of Lois, Jimmy, and Perry.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 06-25-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    I will go with Action Comics #500.

    Imo its biggest strength is in nuance and subtlety that a lot of stories lack. I was told that Superman is an outsider. A lonely person. But apart from the fact that he's the last Kryptonian, (which is proven wrong on arrival of Zod, Krypto, Kara, Kandor and the Phantom Zone), i neither understood nor agreed. But on reading this i finally understood what that means.

    Before the arrival of Krypto he couldn't share his unique experience of being Superman with anyone. Even when Kents were around, they couldn't share the joy of something simple as the breeze of wind which blows during his flight. Or the feeling of fiery bullets against living flesh. Its not that he was always alone. But he sometimes was, as the experience of being Superman is indeed unique.

    An origin story is supposed to shed light upon the character. And i don't think any other origin does this better then Action Comics #500. Even when he's going to inaugrate the museum, he feels uncomfortable with the limelight. The death of Kents was heavy and i felt his loss. The idea of not being able to save them, even with his powers is there. Like Superman '78. While retaining the original origin with Jonathan's deathbed speech. Smallville section is practically perfect imo.

    Many people say being Superman is easy. Look at Batman's scars. Indeed Bruce's scars are physical. You can see that. But Superman's scars is visible only to him. Due to exposure to Kryptonite over the years, there are gaps in his perfect memory. He could barely remember his life on Krypton. They may not mean much to us. But for someone who painstakingly tries to preserve Krypton in his Fortress, that's a big loss.

    Its not all sadness and gloom, for apart from being an origin, this is also its own story. At the background something sinister is happening, and the mystery is solved only towards the end. Superman uses quick thinking along with his powers to overpower opponents. Its not always brawn. You have to give it to Superman here. When facing an opponent equal to his power he uses his powers so efficiently, that the fight was over almost before it began. That's the kind of Superman i want to read. Resourceful and thinking on his toes.

    Yeah, i think this would be it. I will put it above New 52. The later is probably the better story, but #500 has everything. Its like Johns' Secret Origin done right. Having everything you might want in the origin, while being a great story on its own. I won't count All Star. Its an 'origin'. Not an 'origin story'. Something like a highlight reel. Just like the excellent opening of the first episode of Superman and Lois. It left me smiling ear to ear, but it was hardly a story, If i would count 'All Star', 'Superman and Lois' should also be in the discussion.

    Last edited by Soubhagya; 06-26-2021 at 05:39 AM.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Action #500 is good. It managed to take all the goofy elements of the SA and make them into a believable story. I've always had my issues with the concept of super-memory (for one thing, if you're relying on the memories of an infant, you're probably not going to come away with a whole lot of information) but this made it seem halfway understandable. I really hope that S&L fills in a lot more blanks about his past. The waiting is the hardest part, as the song says.
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  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    To my shame I've never come across a copy of 500. Never looked too hard though. Have enough origin stories in my boxes already, yknow? But my man Soubhagya has the right of it; Clark's origin (his entire life, really) is bittersweet. Clark loves his life and being who and what he is, but his perspective is truly singular and he pays a steep price for being the Last Son of Krypton.

    That's what so many DC writers forget; Clark's life isn't perfect and he's not fully satisfied with it. There is always a longing deep within him that can never be filled. For all of his power, all his experiences and the miracles he's witnessed and the family he's built around himself, there are things he will never have that everyone else takes for granted. And its the fact that Clark doesn't let the bad things dominate his life is what makes him truly heroic and inspirational.
    Last edited by Ascended; 06-26-2021 at 07:03 PM.
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  13. #73
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    Tor Books reprinted ACTION COMICS 500, in black and white with the panels pasted up to fit a pocket-size paperback, as THE SUPERMAN STORY in 1983. It was available in bookstores for many years after that. I bought two copies at Chapters Books in the early 2000s. It's probably not possible to find it for sale new anymore--but stranger things have happened.
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  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Tor Books reprinted ACTION COMICS 500, in black and white with the panels pasted up to fit a pocket-size paperback, as THE SUPERMAN STORY in 1983. It was available in bookstores for many years after that. I bought two copies at Chapters Books in the early 2000s. It's probably not possible to find it for sale new anymore--but stranger things have happened.
    I bought it for like $5.00 in 2005. Not sure you could find it at that price today.
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  15. #75
    Incredible Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I bought it for like $5.00 in 2005. Not sure you could find it at that price today.
    That is a really great issue.
    Just out of curiosity I checked Ebay and found a copy selling for $7 including shipping. It's well worth that price and it is a really long comic so you get a lot of quality reading for the price.

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