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  1. #61
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    DC's Injustice Animated Movie First Look and Voice Cast Revealed

    https://movieweb.com/injustice-movie...ok-voice-cast/
    I wonder if he'll be with the Regime or the Insurgency.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if he'll be with the Regime or the Insurgency.
    Insurgents. Just hope he survives

  3. #63
    Boisterously Confused
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    I think I've said it before elsewhere: This is a character whose position below the A-List I simply cannot understand. He's DC's Tony Stark/Captain America fusion in an era obsessed with technological innovation and physical action. This is the Doc Savage for our times.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I think I've said it before elsewhere: This is a character whose position below the A-List I simply cannot understand. He's DC's Tony Stark/Captain America fusion in an era obsessed with technological innovation and physical action. This is the Doc Savage for our times.
    The Doc Savage template has run it's course, though. We like us some flaws/character balance. And that's where writers come up short on Mr. T. He's not a mary sue, but the flaws they assign him are kinda lacking (not religious, for example)
    Last edited by The Cool Thatguy; 08-03-2021 at 03:13 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The Doc Savage template has run it's course, though. We luck us some flaws/character balance. And that's where writers come up short on Mr. T. He's not a mary sue, but the flaws they assign him are kinda lacking (not religious, for example)
    People aren't that in need of flaws for their characters. They are a tool to make characters interesting but not the only option.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    People aren't that in need of flaws for their characters. They are a tool to make characters interesting but not the only option.
    If not flaws, they need balance. And Mr. T isn't balanced

  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The Doc Savage template has run it's course, though. We like us some flaws/character balance. And that's where writers come up short on Mr. T. He's not a mary sue, but the flaws they assign him are kinda lacking (not religious, for example)
    I don’t think being an atheist is a character flaw necessarily Holt’s flaws are that he’s very ego driven, and has a tough time forming emotional bonds with others. He also can get lost in his own head since he’s more intelligent than all but two other people and he knows that, which can cause him to treat others condescendingly. He’s also stubborn and doesn’t change his mind easily.

    But people don’t read heroes just for their flaws, they read them to see the heroes overcome obstacles and do cool ****, and Holt is great at that
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I don’t think being an atheist is a character flaw necessarily Holt’s flaws are that he’s very ego driven, and has a tough time forming emotional bonds with others. He also can get lost in his own head since he’s more intelligent than all but two other people and he knows that, which can cause him to treat others condescendingly. He’s also stubborn and doesn’t change his mind easily.

    But people don’t read heroes just for their flaws, they read them to see the heroes overcome obstacles and do cool ****, and Holt is great at that
    I don't think it's a character flaw either, but that's how it was presented in JSA and the Terrifics. I agree Holt is awesome, but again, there needs to be balance

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I don't think it's a character flaw either, but that's how it was presented in JSA and the Terrifics. I agree Holt is awesome, but again, there needs to be balance
    He already has it. It isn't like he's presented as the most perfect guy in the world. Superman's closest to that and there's a significant resistance to portraying him as flawed sometimes. Frankly, I'd say "not being flawed enough" isn't an actual obstacle for Holt so much as a lack of consistent use.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The Doc Savage template has run it's course, though. We like us some flaws/character balance. And that's where writers come up short on Mr. T. He's not a mary sue, but the flaws they assign him are kinda lacking (not religious, for example)
    We had remarkably different takeaways from Doc Savage, who I found flawed up, down, left, right and sideways. He's arrogant. He's self-righteous. He's been taught to view himself as Above and Beyond, which sets him up for all kinds of humbling stories.

    Mr. Terrific's struggle with those characteristics lend themselves to that. Much like Iron Man's did when they got tired of talking about his wiggledly heart.

  11. #71
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    The "hero must be flawed" is an outdated way of thinking. Just give him good characterization and a personality. The rest takes care of itself. You all are talking like he's a cookie-cutter hero.

    His portrayal in the Terrifics was perfect. He's been great in his cameos and animated appearances the last few years.

    I don't see the need to make extra goalposts for Michael. Treat him like you would another character. A genius comic character is not a new concept. He's got a good background and a decent origin. DC only needs to keep writing him in good stories.











    and I don't want to hear anything about him being overpowered in a world with Batman, Lex Luthor, Superman etc. etc. I'm not even going to bring up the ludicrous stuff Marvel's geniuses get up to. Holt's rather mild by comparison
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  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    If anything Holt should be getting more feats. Frankly I think it’s idiotic that Batman is supposed to be smarter than him, but I realize that’s a lost cause so whatever. Still, if they ever rebuild the Watchtower, I would love to see Holt be the guy who builds the new and improved version. Frankly I wish he was on the League more often if he’s not leading the Terrifics (which would be my ideal status quo for him).
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  13. #73
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    If anything Holt should be getting more feats. Frankly I think it’s idiotic that Batman is supposed to be smarter than him, but I realize that’s a lost cause so whatever. Still, if they ever rebuild the Watchtower, I would love to see Holt be the guy who builds the new and improved version. Frankly I wish he was on the League more often if he’s not leading the Terrifics (which would be my ideal status quo for him).
    Has he ever been definitively depicted as smarter? I mean, besides when they treat Batman as the smartest person in the room without him, but I think in practice Holt's a super-genius and Batman just has very good instincts and knowledge base.

    I'd like to see him back with the JSA but I don't know how feasible that is now.

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Has he ever been definitively depicted as smarter? I mean, besides when they treat Batman as the smartest person in the room without him, but I think in practice Holt's a super-genius and Batman just has very good instincts and knowledge base.

    I'd like to see him back with the JSA but I don't know how feasible that is now.
    Yep Doomsday Clock made it definitive that Lex is #1 and Batman is #2. King though has been implying that Holt is actually smarter than both, but he’s keeping that to himself so they underestimate him. Holt is portrayed as smarter than Batman in Strange Adventures at least.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  15. #75
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Has he ever been definitively depicted as smarter? I mean, besides when they treat Batman as the smartest person in the room without him, but I think in practice Holt's a super-genius and Batman just has very good instincts and knowledge base.

    I'd like to see him back with the JSA but I don't know how feasible that is now.



    I felt the early early 2000s and prior Batman was not considered the smartest in the DCU; however, that changed. Heck, the writer of Mr. Terrific's first solo considered Batman top 5 or 6. It's an interesting interview I'll post it.



    I think ranking for intelligence is a little dumb. DC's genius characters are all exceedingly brilliant, with different fields and areas they excel in over others. Nevertheless, the very notion that Holt is supposedly number 3 means there is a ranking, and it makes you wonder who numbers 1 and 2 are. Who the top 10 are, honestly.
    Last edited by Jabare; 08-04-2021 at 02:05 AM.
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