View Poll Results: Do You Like The Organic Webbing Idea?

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  • Yes: I think it’s a fine idea.

    21 42.00%
  • No: Never liked the idea.

    20 40.00%
  • I’m indifferent Towards The Idea.

    9 18.00%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    1. Artificial webbing showcases Peter's intelligence better.
    This honestly feels meaningless in a world where giant robots and supersoldiers are normal.

    Him curing the Lizard feels more notable.

  2. #17

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    I don't mind organic webbing; it's certainly more logical than having a teenager design a special web fluid in his bedroom. Then again, it's all fictional...
    Formerly known as Don't pee in the (Dead)pool...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post

    Take the Symbiote. In the comics, the first time Spider-Man ever got "organic webbing" was when he got the Symbiote which gave him that special power. It was an obvious example of the temptation of the suit and its great and mysterious power. Now in the third Spider-Man movie, the Symbiote made no difference because he had organic webbing before, so that meant that as an audience the temptation of the suit in making Peter a more powerful, resourceful and dangerous Spider-Man...and consequently Venom as an even more dangerous and deadly opponent, that whole part was lost. So organic webbing is subtractive and doesn't work in the long-term.
    The original alien costume saga wasn't about Peter being tempted by power. It was about an alien trying to involuntarily bond with him. Venom was dangerous because he was not only stronger and faster than Spider-Man but he couldn't set off his spider-sense. His organic webbing had nothing to do with it. In fact, Venom having organic webbing got used against him in his first battle with Spider-Man.

    Organic webbing also overly literalizes the sexual metaphor which was obviously what Spider-Man 2 ran with, making the loss of webbing a symbol of impotency.
    That's not what Spider-Man 2 was doing and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

    Agreed. Web-shooters also give suspense and drive up stakes, and adds an element of keeping Spider-Man an underdog. Like Peter being almost out of webbing in a fight, or being so out of webbing that he can't swing or needing to make webbing out of weak chemicals and so on and all kinds of financial and plot hurdles it introduces fades away with organic webbing.
    Peter's enemies are either physically stronger than him, have more versatile abilities or greater resources. He's an underdog with or without web shooters.

  4. #19
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    I never got that interpretation from SM2 either.

    And Peter ia always the underdog. Nothing really changes that

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I feel that you're working with the assumption that Pete won't make gadgets to use as tools for crimefighting. Is he "stuck with" using just the organic webbing or can he use both? 'cause he kind of does use both in the times when he has organic webbing. So it's not fully a choice of A or B. Heck if enemies expect natural webbing and you use something else? well that's a good way to surprise them.
    I think that overcomplicates Spider-Man's origin and Spider-Man as a character. Webshooters-only arguably works better thematically and streamlines Spider-Man in all the ways he should be streamlined.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    This honestly feels meaningless in a world where giant robots and supersoldiers are normal.

    Him curing the Lizard feels more notable.
    Lots of things in a shared universe are meaningless if we go by that logic.

    I don't see how inventing something that is impossible to replicate in real life can be meaningless (even if artificial webbing can be made, to make as much of it out of nothing the way Peter does, and to use it in a variety of ways like Spider-Man does, is practically impossible).
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 06-10-2021 at 08:11 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    I think that overcomplicates Spider-Man's origin and Spider-Man as a character. Webshooters-only arguably works better thematically and streamlines Spider-Man in all the ways he should be streamlined.
    How does it overcomplicate the narrative when it gives him something that he arguably should've had from the beginning?

    Lots of things in a shared universe are meaningless if we go by that logic.

    I don't see how inventing something that is impossible to replicate in real life can be meaningless (even if artificial webbing can be made, to make as much of it out of nothing the way Peter does, and to use it in a variety of ways like Spider-Man does, is practically impossible).
    Because that doesn't make him smart by in-universe standards, and yes, I do think that Peter and his supporting cast would be better off in his own universe.
    Last edited by PCN24454; 06-11-2021 at 09:06 AM.

  7. #22
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    Him having organic webs would be much more streamlined, wouldn't it?

    And I don't think he'd work better in his own universe

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think the web-shooters make more sense, especially if you treat Spider-Man as a serialized character.

    When Cameron and later Raimi were thinking of Spider-Man, they were thinking of the first film and they decided to do all they can to make the first Spider-Man movie work, and their choices make sense going into Spider-Man 1 as a standalone film. So in Spider-Man 1, the first film, if you see that as a standalone, the first and only Spider-Man movie...then organic webbing makes sense there. But on the whole it doesn't work very well.

    Take the Symbiote. In the comics, the first time Spider-Man ever got "organic webbing" was when he got the Symbiote which gave him that special power. It was an obvious example of the temptation of the suit and its great and mysterious power. Now in the third Spider-Man movie, the Symbiote made no difference because he had organic webbing before, so that meant that as an audience the temptation of the suit in making Peter a more powerful, resourceful and dangerous Spider-Man...and consequently Venom as an even more dangerous and deadly opponent, that whole part was lost. So organic webbing is subtractive and doesn't work in the long-term.

    Organic webbing also overly literalizes the sexual metaphor which was obviously what Spider-Man 2 ran with, making the loss of webbing a symbol of impotency. I'm not a prude to be against that but I do think that metaphor works better unstated then if it's presented baldly as a direct dramatic plotpoint.



    Agreed. Web-shooters also give suspense and drive up stakes, and adds an element of keeping Spider-Man an underdog. Like Peter being almost out of webbing in a fight, or being so out of webbing that he can't swing or needing to make webbing out of weak chemicals and so on and all kinds of financial and plot hurdles it introduces fades away with organic webbing.

    On an overall level, the title is "Spider-Man" and not Human Spider, and Peter's never gotten each and every Spider ability (no poison for instance). Having Peter create his own webbing emphasizes the "Man" showing that a human being evolution means that Peter doesn't have to organically produce the webbing anymore.
    This.

    Having organic webbing removed far too much drama from having his webbing run out mid-swing or while fighting opponents. But web-shooters, web fluid and how Peter applies them in different situations helps showcase that he actually is a genius.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Him having organic webs would be much more streamlined, wouldn't it?

    And I don't think he'd work better in his own universe
    It does. I mean, Peter supposedly gets all his powers from Spiders and yet he can't make webbing organically? But having artificial means just adds more drama wise.

  10. #25
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    I'm largely indifferent.

    My knee-jerk reaction is the web-slingers, however, I despise the out of web fluid/web fluid too expensive kind of tropes that occasionally gain traction and repeat ad nauseam.

    I was totally cool with the organic being introduced in continuity and then... disappearing. Wait, how did they explain that it was gone? IIRC, it was glossed over with a throwaway line?
    Just. Be. Nice.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    How does it overcomplicate the narrative when it gives him something that eh arguably should've had from the beginning.
    Because organic webbing with occasional webshooter usages doesn't consistently communicate Peter's intelligence to the reader, especially in a serialized format. It can also be easy to lose track of when he's using his organics and when he's using webshooters.

    Look at how much Miles Morales has suffered and how inconsistent he can sometimes be (the 616 version especially) for not having a more streamlined and straight-to-the-point origin.

    Also, I question your use of the word "should". Do you think Peter should have also had venomous fangs?

    Because that doesn't make him smart by in-universe standards, and yes, I do think that Peter and his supporting cast would be better off in his own universe.
    This would only be true if we assume that those other "smarter" Marvel characters could have come up with the webbing, but not necessarily. Intelligence doesn't work like that.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    It does. I mean, Peter supposedly gets all his powers from Spiders and yet he can't make webbing organically? But having artificial means just adds more drama wise.
    How much drama does he need though?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Because organic webbing with occasional webshooter usages doesn't consistently communicate Peter's intelligence to the reader, especially in a serialized format. It can also be easy to lose track of when he's using his organics and when he's using webshooters.

    Look at how much Miles Morales has suffered and how inconsistent he can sometimes be (the 616 version especially) for not having a more streamlined and straight-to-the-point origin.

    Also, I question your use of the word "should". Do you think Peter should have also had venomous fangs?



    This would only be true if we assume that those other "smarter" Marvel characters could have come up with the webbing, but not necessarily. Intelligence doesn't work like that.
    Isn't there anything else which would communicate Peter's genius?

  14. #29
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    I liked both organic webbing and web shooters although I lean more to organic webbing. organic webbing was a good update for Spiderman.

    I have seen some naysayers who were against organic webbing with the argument of, it was like making Batman actually turn into a Bat but I have always disagreed with that comparison because Batman has no super powers and was never even beaten by a Bat.

    Peter had super powers of strength, agility, spider sense, sticking to physical objects and loads more and all because he was beaten by a radio active Spider so why not also give him organic webs that comes out of his own body like a spider? it makes a lot of sense in the world of not just comic books but science fiction.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Isn't there anything else which would communicate Peter's genius?
    Other characters calling Peter a genius would do it. It's generally speaking not good storytelling of course, but yeah it communicates stuff. We are told in the MCU movies that Peter is smart and intelligent but we don't actually see any of that in action because producers like bug-eyed Tom Holland 'fraidy cat close-ups too much.

    Storytelling isn't just about communication. It's about form, style, presentation. In a superhero comic, all the stuff like gadgets, costume, and so on, which isn't elaborated upon, is a form of storytelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Him having organic webs would be much more streamlined, wouldn't it?
    There's this assumption that "streamlining" something is an ideal thing but it's worth questioning. Is something being "streamlined":
    [a] inherently a good thing?
    [b] inherently necessary?
    [c] is there a cost to it? A trade-off?

    Peter not creating his own web-shooters and web-fluid, and also his own costume, makes the character less resourceful and likewise it leads to plots where the fight with the villains become these slugfests bailed out by spider-sense and/or heart-to-heart stuff. You look at Raimi's Spider-Man movies, Peter defeats Goblin by means of Spider-Sense, in the case of Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 2, he has a heart-to-heart with Otto. In Spider-Man 3, heart-to-heart with Sandman, bailed out by Harry (also Heart-to-Heart'd to good) and then finally a Spider-Sense insight allows him to twig that noise breaks up the Symbiote.

    I am not saying that's good or bad, I am just saying that in the Raimi movies, Spider-Man never defeats his opponents by outsmarting them or tricking them. (The Post-Raimi movies usually have Peter have a support crew, Garfield has Emma Gwen, the Holland movies has him inherit Iron Man's supporting cast and Miles Morales' supporting cast). And you can trace that back to the decision to dial down the obvious sign of Peter's scientific smarts by giving him organic webbing in the first movie, and then having him swipe Osborn tech in the Garfield movies, and have Tony Stark create the classic Spider-Man costume and web-shooters in the MCU movies.

    Streamlining stuff to make stuff more comprehensible or simpler in adaptation terms can be a good thing so long as you do it in a way that doesn't close off further stories or possibilities down the line. Streamline too much and you end up with the wretched mess that was Ultimate Marvel where everything was tied to SHIELD and Ultimate Nick Fury at the expense of the characters that readers paid to follow and are emotionally invested in, and that meant that villains were all connected to Osborn, to Ock, to SHIELD and so on, and that makes the world feel far smaller and less unpredictable.. In the case of MCU, they streamlined stuff to make Spider-Man into an Iron-Man subfranchise, and the result is MCU Spider-Man feels like he's a subfranchise to a character vastly inferior in every respect to him and you have a version of Spider-Man who doesn't feel like he can tie his own shoelaces.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 06-11-2021 at 07:24 AM.

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