Thoughts On Organic Webbing?

[Metro]

Someone who barges in a thread simply to insult me and offer no opinion on the OP has forfeited all right to talk about bad faith.

It's insulting to point out your clear and obvious exaggeration of the character's negative traits and downplay of his positive ones?
I feel if you find that insulting, it says more about you than it does me.

[CosmiComic]

"Devolve?"

My dude this is the highest stage of evolution of Spider-threads. The apotheosis. The summit. The moon-landing.

Really? I don't see how this really helps

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's insulting to point out your clear and obvious exaggeration of the character's negative traits and downplay of his positive ones?

Yeah it is. Because you specifically came here to raise a fuss about that and derail this off-topic. If you can't tolerate other people disliking stuff you like then hold your peace and move on.

[Metro]

Yeah it is. Because you specifically came here to raise a fuss about that and derail this off-topic. If you can't tolerate other people disliking stuff you like then hold your peace and move on.

No you can dislike it all you want, I don't care about that, what do care about when you blatantly misrepresent the character and how they're portrayed, and then either make things up or flat out just fabricate things that did not happen, which is what you did, and if you don't want any responses made to your posts then either don't say anything or don't use the topic as a blatant excuse just bash MCU Spider-Man.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

... what do care about when you blatantly misrepresent the character and how they're portrayed,

I have never misrepresented anything. Unless you operate under the assumption that Iron Man and his supporting cast are totally absent figures in the MCU Spider-Man movies and that he doesn't have a single scene with RDJ...I'd frankly prefer your version of reality to be true but what we have is what we have, unfortunately.

You may not like how I characterize stuff but I am expressing how I felt about it, and anyone watching the MCU Spider-Man has every right to call it an Iron Man subfranchise and take exception or issue with the way IM is implemented in that film, if they (like me) dislike how it's done.

So either get on topic or hold your peace. There are places on the internet or social media where people gush all they want about the MCU movies, I don't go barging in on Instagram or whatever and insult Tom Holland fans. So go there and gush all you want about those films and be safe and secure from wicked ol' me.

[Metro]

I have never misrepresented anything. Unless you operate under the assumption that Iron Man and his supporting cast are totally absent figures in the MCU Spider-Man movies and that he doesn't have a single scene with RDJ...I'd frankly prefer your version of reality to be true but what we have is what we have, unfortunately.

You may not like how I characterize stuff but I am expressing how I felt about it, and anyone watching the MCU Spider-Man has every right to call it an Iron Man subfranchise and take exception or issue with the way IM is implemented in that film, if they (like me) dislike how it's done.

So either get on topic or hold your peace. There are places on the internet or social media where people gush all they want about the MCU movies, I don't go barging in on Instagram or whatever and insult Tom Holland fans. So go there and gush all you want about those films and be safe and secure from wicked ol' me.

And you're doing it again.
Blatantly misrepresenting the character and what happens in the films and just calling it ​fact, while showing you can't talk about MCU Spider-Man in anyway other than in bad faith.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And you're doing it again.
Blatantly misrepresenting the character and what happens in the films and just calling it ​fact, while showing you can't talk about MCU Spider-Man in anyway other than in bad faith.

How about this, start a thread on the MCU Spider-Man and give us what you think is an accurate representation of the movies. That's within your rights, you can make your case in as many words as you want, and rather than respond to throwaway comments in a post that addresses "organic webbing" I can actually respond in full.

Otherwise, I must ask what is your opinion on organic webbing?

[Metro]

How about this, start a thread on the MCU Spider-Man and give us what you think is an accurate representation of the movies. That's within your rights, you can make your case in as many words as you want, and rather than respond to throwaway comments in a post that addresses "organic webbing" I can actually respond in full.

Otherwise, I must ask what is your opinion on organic webbing?

There'd be no point in doing that, it's clear you can't and won't talk about the character in any way other than how you can try and make him look as bad as possible and ignore any postive traits he has, like you blatantly lied and said Tony Stark created his web shooters, and on that note I don't like organic webs, they take away and prevent all of Spider-Man's web variations.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

On the topic of organic webbing, I like the idea of Spider-Man 2099 having it. I think it fits his character a lot better than Peter, since his powers are more monstrous and arguably more of a curse.

[Frontier]

On the topic of organic webbing, I like the idea of Spider-Man 2099 having it. I think it fits his character a lot better than Peter, since his powers are more monstrous and arguably more of a curse.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is really complaining about the Spiders who do have organic webbing.

[Agent Z]

Okay let's break down the arguments against web shooters:

"Artificial webbing shows how smart Peter is".

Spider-Man being smart is the one thing you can count on being present in just about any incarnation of him and this is shown in various ways. The Raimi version wasn't much of an inventor but we also saw him dispensing scientific facts and he was able to hold his own in a conversation with Otto Octavius, a scientist far older and more accomplished than he. Furthermore, web shooters are not the only thing Peter has created. You could leave them out and still portray Peter as a capable scientist.

"Artificial webbing means tension"

Spider-Man's enemies are either as strong as him or stronger (Rhino, the Goblins, the Symbiotes), have more versatile abilities (Hydro-Man, Electro, Sandman) or greater resources (the Kingpin). Giving him organic web shooters has very little effect on tension if any at all. It isn't like Raimi Spider-Man was curb-stomping villains in every fight he was in.

"Organic webbing is gross"

This is incredibly subjective and I can't help but notice that this never gets said about any other Spider character with organic webbing.

"Organic webbing is sexual imagery"

I've never understood this one and as far as I care, this one is really only for people who kind of have their minds in the gutter.

[CosmiComic]

Spider-Man will usually be the underdog in any fight. That tension always exists.

I really don't get the "organic web = sex" thing at all. Idk where anyone got that.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Okay let's break down the arguments against web shooters:

"Artificial webbing shows how smart Peter is".

Spider-Man being smart is the one thing you can count on being present in just about any incarnation of him and this is shown in various ways.

The examples you bring up is precisely "told in various ways" and not shown. Characters talk and have Peter sounding smart but it doesn't become an aspect of the character's daily life, his way of processing things mentally, or shown as a facet of his character.

Giving him organic web shooters has very little effect on tension if any at all. It isn't like Raimi Spider-Man was curb-stomping villains in every fight he was in.

The way Peter defeated his bad guys in Raimi movies, was either rope-a-dope (take a lot of beatings before getting an emotional Danny Elfman-accompanied power-up) or heart-to-heart his bad guys to righteousness. That doesn't indicate the character's resourcefulness or him out-thinking his foes.

In the post-Raimi movies, he has a support team who helps him do the outsmarting and planning or strategizing stuff, which feels too cheap.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Okay let's break down the arguments against web shooters:

"Artificial webbing shows how smart Peter is".

Spider-Man being smart is the one thing you can count on being present in just about any incarnation of him and this is shown in various ways. The Raimi version wasn't much of an inventor but we also saw him dispensing scientific facts and he was able to hold his own in a conversation with Otto Octavius, a scientist far older and more accomplished than he. Furthermore, web shooters are not the only thing Peter has created. You could leave them out and still portray Peter as a capable scientist.

All of the examples you listed are examples of telling and not showing, and telling never communicates anything to the viewer as much as showing does, especially in a medium like film or comic books. If anything, your examples prove that artificial webbing shows how smart Peter is better than organic webbing does.

You say webshooters are not the only thing Peter has created or can create, and that is true, but keep in mind that 1) all of the intelligence feats Raimi's Peter displayed, he could have still displayed if he had webshooters and 2) you're acting like the webshooters is 'one' invention when technically it is like 8 - there is different webbing like impact webbing and the insulated webbing and the dissolving webbing he used on Rhino's armor, while there's also several webbing gadgets Peter can make like in the Insomniac games - so if you get rid of the webshooters, you're technically getting rid of a bunch of inventions at once and not just one.

"Artificial webbing means tension"

Spider-Man's enemies are either as strong as him or stronger (Rhino, the Goblins, the Symbiotes), have more versatile abilities (Hydro-Man, Electro, Sandman) or greater resources (the Kingpin). Giving him organic web shooters has very little effect on tension if any at all. It isn't like Raimi Spider-Man was curb-stomping villains in every fight he was in.

Articial webbing is the only reason that a working-class boy like Peter was able to move freely through the sky and look oligarchs like Green Goblin in the face, as said oligarchs fly around thinking they own the sky and that they're smarter than everyone.

"Organic webbing is gross"

This is incredibly subjective and I can't help but notice that this never gets said about any other Spider character with organic webbing.

There's honestly not a lot of other well-known Spider characters. The symbiotes' organic webbing doesn't come from the human host's body so people won't be as grossed out by it. The other example is Spider-Man 2099, and Peter David treated his powers as more of a curse/monstrosity than Peter's.

"Organic webbing is sexual imagery"

I've never understood this one and as far as I care, this one is really only for people who kind of have their minds in the gutter.

In James Cameron's planned film (where the organic webbing from Raimi's film originated), Spider-Man's powers were going to be a metaphor for puberty. Cameron's Peter was supposedly embarrassed that the webs were coming out of him, and thought people would find it gross, so he made fake mechanical webshooters to make it look like the webbing was artificial.

[Agent Z]

The examples you bring up is precisely "told in various ways" and not shown. Characters talk and have Peter sounding smart but it doesn't become an aspect of the character's daily life, his way of processing things mentally, or shown as a facet of his character.

Displaying an interest in science and discussing theories with scientists does show it as a facet of his character. It just isn't the only one. He's also taking physics classes in the second movie.

The way Peter defeated his bad guys in Raimi movies, was either rope-a-dope (take a lot of beatings before getting an emotional Danny Elfman-accompanied power-up) or heart-to-heart his bad guys to righteousness. That doesn't indicate the character's resourcefulness or him out-thinking his foes.

The rope a dope strategy was only used in the first film. In the second one he incapacitates Octavius by tricking him into stabbing a cable and then talks him into helping him (both actions show intelligence on Peter's part, specifically emotional intelligence for the second). In the third movie, he defeats Venom by using his weakness to sound against him.

In the post-Raimi movies, he has a support team who helps him do the outsmarting and planning or strategizing stuff, which feels too cheap.

To be blunt, I don't understand this hang up people have about superheroes needing help as if these guys are super gods from heaven who would never require aid from mere mortals. No one truly accomplishes anything by themselves and the idea that you are less intelligent because you need help from time to time is one of the most immature things one can believe. If Buffy were invented today, I wonder how people would feel about her needing Giles and Willow.