How come DC's super geniuses don't collaborate more

[Jabare]

Given the circles, they all run in you'd think there'd be more collaborations or team-ups, especially for those super scientists that study in the same fields.

Marvel's got the Illuminati and the Future Foundation.

There was the Terrific Council, but I'm not sure if that group will ever appear again.



T-Council_Prime_Earth_0001.jpg

Let's quickly run through the Super geniuses on the DC Earth and see who should be science buddies with one another. I'm going to limit this to "good guys" and non-robots.


DC super geniuses, in no order (I'm sure you all will let me know if I leave anyone out ):
-Cyborg
-Ray Palmer
-Ted Kord
-Ryan Choi
-Hiro Okamura (Toy Master)
-Mister Terrific
-Bruce Wayne (Batman)
- Brainiac 5
-Lex Luthor (when he was good....is he bad again?)
-John Henry Irons (Steel)
-Terry Sloane
-Dr. William Magus
-T.O. Morrow (is he still good)
-The Chief
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
-Dr. Light (Hoshi)
-Detective Chimp
-Amanda Waller
-Professor Martin Stein
-Lucius Fox
-Silas Stone
-Martian Manhunter
-Shay Veritas
-Tom Strong
-Paula Holt (Ms. Terrific)
-Charles McNider(Doctor Mid-Nite)

[LifeIsILL]

DC seems to limit their geniuses to just 3 or 4 people. I don't know why.

Marvel has like 50 of them.

[Lightning63]

DC usually acts as though Batman, Mr Terrific, Lex Luthor and Atom are their only geniuses.

[Midnight_v]

Paula Holt? Her pregnant death is what caused Michael to meet the specter and become Terrific right? Or are we including earth too and future versions as well? Cause if so... I feel like
there's' a lot of "Council of Rick" types that are worth mentioning.

T.O. Morrow seems like he vacillates quite a bit on being a hero but the truth is it feels like a lot of the their geniuses are just used villainously. What was it? Aliens, Mad Scientists, and Witches?


I made a shot for shot Illuminati in one of those "make your own team using dc characters" thing. I feel like Will Magnus gets overlooked quite a bit. Reading the terrifics I kept expecting it to evolve into
a "Black Science" style adventure book but it started out there a went through some interesting changes before it got to the Council appearing. Itd be nice though to have such a thing.

[Frontier]

I think they usually collaborate a lot during world-ending situations.

[DABellWrites]

Because they have Batman to solve every major problem.

[MajorHoy]

Don't you need more super-genius writers to come up with decent stories that would properly utilize all that brain power first?

[Lightning Rider]

A lot of them are bound to their particular niche/institution, but I would definitely want to see more small pairings & team-ups between scientists.

[Digifiend]

Paula Holt? Her pregnant death is what caused Michael to meet the specter and become Terrific right? Or are we including earth too and future versions as well? Cause if so... I feel like
there's' a lot of "Council of Rick" types that are worth mentioning.

T.O. Morrow seems like he vacillates quite a bit on being a hero but the truth is it feels like a lot of the their geniuses are just used villainously. What was it? Aliens, Mad Scientists, and Witches?


I made a shot for shot Illuminati in one of those "make your own team using dc characters" thing. I feel like Will Magnus gets overlooked quite a bit. Reading the terrifics I kept expecting it to evolve into
a "Black Science" style adventure book but it started out there a went through some interesting changes before it got to the Council appearing. Itd be nice though to have such a thing.

An AU Paula met Prime Earth's Michael in The Terrifics. She was from a world where HE died instead.

[Jabare]

Good point, Paula and Tom Strong are from another dimension I guess I probably shouldn't include them. Brainiac 5 is from the future but it's the same dimension.

A super popular like Batman will associate with everyone at some point, but I'll break out my pairings by specialty and areas of focus. I'm gonna leave out investigation/detective since that will cover most heroes in some capacity.


Engineering
Lucius Fox- Military Weapons
Dr. William Magus- Mechanical Engineering
Mr. Terrific
Hiro Okamura-Mechanical Engineering & Robotic Engineering
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor- Robotics Engineering
John Henry Irons (Steel)- Mechanical Engineering, Weapon Engineering
Terry Sloane- Mechanical Engineering
T.O. Morrow- Robotics
Niles Caulder (The Cheif)- Electrical & Robotics
Silas Stone- Gadgetry
Shay Veritas- Mechanical Engineering
Tom Strong- Mechanical & Robotics

Physics
Ray Palmer
Martin Stein - Nuclear Physics
Will Magnus- Particle Physics
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Martin Stein
Tom Strong

Mathematics
Will Magnus- Theoretical Mathematics
Mr. Terrific
Theodore Kord- Theoretical Mathematics
Brainiac 5

Law
Batman
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor

Chemistry
Ryan Choi
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor
Terry Sloane
Will Magnus
Niles Caulder (The Chief)
Martin Stein
Tom Strong


Hacking, Computer Operation
Cyborg
John Henry Irons (Steel)
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Silas Stone


Life Science
Terry Sloane- Medicine
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)- Medicine
Mr. Terrific
Dr. Light (Hoshi)- Medical Science
Brainiac 5
Charles McNider(Doctor Mid-Nite)- Medicine

Business Management
Terry Sloane
Lex Luthor
Ted Kord
Bruce Wayne
Mr. Terrific
Lucius Fox

Magic/Occult
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
Detective Chimp

Archaeology
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
Brainiac 5

Space Science/Astronomy
Mr. Terrific
Dr. Light (Hoshi)
Brainiac 5

Political Science
Amanda Waller
Batman.
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor

Espionage/Manipulation
Amanda Waller
Batman

Tactics/Tactical Analysis
Brainiac 5
Mr. Terrific
Batman
Lex Luthor
Amanda Waller


Please let me know if you think any branches of science or specializations are missing (like certain theoretical sciences, biochemistry, microbiology, botany, zoology, etc.). Also, if anyone is missing from a category or misplaced.

I didn't know where to stick Martian Manhunter and I feel like Swamp Thing operates based on his abilities, not his intellect.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Good point, Paula and Tom Strong are from another dimension I guess I probably shouldn't include them. Brainiac 5 is from the future but it's the same dimension.

A super popular like Batman will associate with everyone at some point, but I'll break out my pairings by specialty and areas of focus. I'm gonna leave out investigation/detective since that will cover most heroes in some capacity.


Engineering
Lucius Fox- Military Weapons
Dr. William Magus- Mechanical Engineering
Mr. Terrific
Hiro Okamura-Mechanical Engineering & Robotic Engineering
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor- Robotics Engineering
John Henry Irons (Steel)- Mechanical Engineering, Weapon Engineering
Terry Sloane- Mechanical Engineering
T.O. Morrow- Robotics
Niles Caulder (The Cheif)- Electrical & Robotics
Silas Stone- Gadgetry
Shay Veritas- Mechanical Engineering
Tom Strong- Mechanical & Robotics

Physics
Ray Palmer
Martin Stein - Nuclear Physics
Will Magnus- Particle Physics
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Martin Stein
Tom Strong

Mathematics
Will Magnus- Theoretical Mathematics
Mr. Terrific
Theodore Kord- Theoretical Mathematics
Brainiac 5

Law
Batman
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor

Chemistry
Ryan Choi
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor
Terry Sloane
Will Magnus
Niles Caulder (The Chief)
Martin Stein
Tom Strong


Hacking, Computer Operation
Cyborg
John Henry Irons (Steel)
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Silas Stone


Life Science
Terry Sloane- Medicine
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)- Medicine
Mr. Terrific
Dr. Light (Hoshi)- Medical Science
Brainiac 5
Charles McNider(Doctor Mid-Nite)- Medicine

Business Management
Terry Sloane
Lex Luthor
Ted Kord
Bruce Wayne
Mr. Terrific
Lucius Fox

Magic/Occult
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
Detective Chimp

Archaeology
Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
Brainiac 5

Space Science/Astronomy
Mr. Terrific
Dr. Light (Hoshi)
Brainiac 5

Political Science
Amanda Waller
Batman.
Mr. Terrific
Brainiac 5
Lex Luthor

Espionage/Manipulation
Amanda Waller
Batman

Tactics/Tactical Analysis
Brainiac 5
Mr. Terrific
Batman
Lex Luthor
Amanda Waller


Please let me know if you think any branches of science or specializations are missing (like certain theoretical sciences, biochemistry, microbiology, botany, zoology, etc.). Also, if anyone is missing from a category or misplaced.

I didn't know where to stick Martian Manhunter and I feel like Swamp Thing operates based on his abilities, not his intellect.

That is a super cool list! You might want to add a forensic science category.

The Flash (Barry Allen) is both a chemist and forensic scientist.
Batman & Nightwing would fall under this category as well, as to would Elongated Man

Elongated Man (Ralph Dibny) apparently has a super high IQ, & perhaps someone can clarify this....but I believe he is one of the smartest heroes in the DCU.

[golgi]

Given the circles, they all run in you'd think there'd be more collaborations or team-ups, especially for those super scientists that study in the same fields.

Marvel's got the Illuminati and the Future Foundation.

There was the Terrific Council, but I'm not sure if that group will ever appear again.



T-Council_Prime_Earth_0001.jpg

Let's quickly run through the Super geniuses on the DC Earth and see who should be science buddies with one another. I'm going to limit this to "good guys" and non-robots.


DC super geniuses, in no order (I'm sure you all will let me know if I leave anyone out ):
-Cyborg
-Ray Palmer
-Ted Kord
-Ryan Choi
-Hiro Okamura (Toy Master)
-Mister Terrific
-Bruce Wayne (Batman)
- Brainiac 5
-Lex Luthor (when he was good....is he bad again?)
-John Henry Irons (Steel)
-Terry Sloane
-Dr. William Magus
-T.O. Morrow (is he still good)
-The Chief
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
-Dr. Light (Hoshi)
-Detective Chimp
-Amanda Waller
-Professor Martin Stein
-Lucius Fox
-Silas Stone
-Martian Manhunter
-Shay Veritas
-Tom Strong
-Paula Holt (Ms. Terrific)
-Charles McNider(Doctor Mid-Nite)

Dc also has the evil team of Oolong island. 52 series.

[golgi]

I'll post this again:

. I'm not going to go through all of these, because to be frank a lot of them are superfluous and don't deserve mention based on their feats or the paucity of their appearances.

In your first tier 'mortal' guys, you're going to have the cosmically smart. Here you'll have Brainiac 1, Brainiac 3 (Lyrl), Brainiac 5, Sardath, Alexander Luthor, and probably T.O. Morrow. You'd also have Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million, most likely, if you care to count them. Each of those has done something truly astounding.

Brainiac 3 just created a Solaris-Class stellar supercomputer, Pulsar Stargrave, by collapsing a pulsar. This makes it the most sophisticated super computer in the universe. He's a 12th level intelligence, which puts him on par with Brainiac 5. Now Brainiac 1 just, on the fly, created a device to contain/hold a rampaging Pulsar Stargrave (ie, contain Solaris). He's also demonstrated the ability to shrink cities down, his tech was co opted to create a planet out of nothing, and he easily destroyed a star/sun. Brainiac 5 has created a number of crazy devices, perhaps most impressive being the "Concentrator", which literally absorbs/utilizes/concentrates every joule of energy in the ENTIRE universe into whatever effect the user wants. It's...disturbing. He's got other feats as well, of force fields and coming up with cures for this and that, outsmarting vast artificial intelligences, etc.

Sardath has created the Zeta Beam, which allows instantaneous transportation across the universe. He also invented the Omega Beam, which allows the transfer of VAST amounts of matter into energy, so much so that it was threat to the universe -- had Starbreaker gotten his hands on it, he would have converted all matter in the universe to energy and absorbed it all. Even normal Zeta Beam tech can teleport planets, though, as demonstrated in a recent issue of REBELS.

Alexander Luthor really only just has the one feat, but it's kind of a doozy. He created a device to literally manipulate the multiverse, combining and separating universes at his whim. Insanity.

T.O. Morrow is probably the only normally earth guy who deserves a mention here. He apparently learned to 'unlock the hidden space between dimensions' when he was 14 (ie, dimensional creation), he's created time machines and vast super computers that alter reality via time manipulation. He also turns iPods into death rays and creates synthetic souls (Tomorrow Woman, Red Tornado).

Metron is almost a cut above, but since Alexander Luthor got mentioned, I'll give him a shout out. He's created Boom Tubes and the Worlogog and the Moebius Chair, he helped develop the Mother Box (with Himon), controls Hypertime, etc.


Next would come the really big science guys. I this grouping might be The Chief, Ray Palmer, Prof. Ivo, Will Magnus, Professor Nichols, and maybe Mr. Terrific.

The Chief has invented a time machine, replaced the JLA's abilities with tech approximations, brought Rita back from the dead with just a piece of her skull, created nanobots that could literally do anything, including create a being so powerful that he was throwing his victims through the fourth wall into 'our' reality. And it looks like he's going to discover away to alter his genes so that he becomes Kryptonian.

Ray Palmer cracked the Hourman virus when Superman 1 Million said that only a Solaris class stellar computer could do so, created a time machine, created boom tube like teleportation devices, co created a device that made the user's wish come true, figured out how to neutralize a universe destroying cosmic phenomenon that hadn't ever been discovered, has been described as having a mind like the world's largest harddrive, and created the greatest shrinking technology in comics (in terms of power, range and versatility).

Prof. Ivo created Amazo and Tomorrow Woman, two of the physical most potent androids in comics, especially Amazo. He created a serum that made him immortal, he's created countless powerful androids.

Will Magnus has created a device that creates portals between dimensions/universes, the responsometers of the Metal Men which basically means he created souls out of code, flying cars controled and powered by his thoughts, etc.

Professor Nichols created a time machine and a "Maybe Machine" that predicts the future based up suppositions/questions one asks it, a sort of "What if.."

I wouldn't have put Mr. Terrific on here but for the fact that lately Robinson has been giving him a bit of a push, as he was able to create a device that destroyed all the Black Lanterns in a tri state area -- the only tech feat I know of to have accomplished such a thing -- and he's currently working on a way to defeat the Starheart. He also figured out how to travel through time, and his T-spheres are crazy advanced.

Next level down might be the more 'normal' geniuses, and this one covers a wider range IMHO. At the top of this level, maybe even pushing up into the higher level, you've got Steel and Lex Luthor, and then more in the middle you've got Batman and Gizmo. Steel is the engineer of the group, retrofitting time machines (though not building them from scratch, which is a strike against) and building all kinds of crazy powerful suits and nanotech and what not.

Lex Luthor vacillates (Post-Crisis) between being a business man and being a genius. Many of his greatest 'works' have been attributed to his staff. Lately he's made a bit of a comeback as an evil genius, having combined time pool technology with kryptonian weaponry to change the sun to red and various things like that, but he's not a straight up scientist guy anymore, and I doubt he will be shown to be in the upcoming Action run with Paul Cornell. If you take Pre-Crisis into account you're talking about putting him up at the cosmic level as he's making time machines out of orange juice boxes and tin foil.

RIP is a specialist in time, and pretty much only makes time technology. He's good at what he does, but it's limited inherently, and doesn't deserve to be listed along with all the polymaths above.

Anarky is a tough one to gauge as he didn't have a huge number of appearances, but from what little saw -- the way he was able to calculate the coming of the great threat to reality and figure out a way to defeat it, creating a Boom Tube home-made, finding ways to alter the minds of everyone in Gotham...he's probably in "big science" level, albeit at the lower level.

Calc and Oracle are great hackers/computer people, but aren't polymaths on the level of any of the above. They are about equal, with an edge to Oracle.

Sivanna doesn't have very many appearances. I think writers generally think of him on the Big Science level, but from what he's actually done I'd put him at the very low end of that level or about on par with Lex Luthor. He's created dimensional travel, suspendium (frozen time particles), and weapons that have lifted entire cities and badly hurt kryptonian level foes.

And one thing to note -- Hiro, the asian Toyman, got revealed to be a robot all along during Johns' Action Comics run. He's just an artificial intelligence created by Schlott (who probably deserves a mention...he only really makes robots, but they are so sophisticated that no one on the planet can apparently tell that they are robots, including Superman and Batman).

[golgi]

. Brainiac
Lex Luthor
Ray Palmer
The Chief
Lord Havok
Brainiac 5
Pre-Crisis Captain Comet
TO Morrow
Professor Ivo
Professor Stien
Adam Strange
Professor Haley
Dr. Sivanna
Mr. Mind
Hiro Okamura
Professor Cale
Anarky
Batman
Mr. Terrific
Alexander Luthor
Lobo
RIP Hunter
Gorilla Grodd
The Ultra Humanite
Epoch
Per Degaton
Pre-Crisis Barry Allen
Prometheus
I.Q.
Pre-Crisis Superman
Steel
Calculator
Oracle
Toyman
Ryan Choi
Tedd Kord
Will Magnus
Gizmo
Abra Kadabra
Monsieur Mallah (The Brain)

I think DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.

[Jabare]

I'll post this again:

I think DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.

Well, I was just doing heroes and a lot of those additions are villains. Superman is an interesting pick. I wouldn't put Superman as a super genius although for certain incarnations he has fit that classification. Since when is Lobo a Supergenius? I guess I forgot about Adam Strange, I don't know why he doesn't automatically pop in my head like a super genius

That is a super cool list! You might want to add a forensic science category.

The Flash (Barry Allen) is both a chemist and forensic scientist.
Batman & Nightwing would fall under this category as well, as too would Elongated Man

Elongated Man (Ralph Dibny) apparently has a super high IQ, & perhaps someone can clarify this....but I believe he is one of the smartest heroes in the DCU.

Well, I didn't do forensic/investigation because I feel that just opens it up to most street-level heroes, especially Batfamily members and outside of Batman I think it's highly debatable if the other Batfamily members are super-geniuses.

I didn't realize Ralph Dibny is supposed to be a genius. I'm aware the Flash may technically be considered a genius but I feel like his portrayals are inconsistent with that classification.