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  1. #46
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    What’s worse is I KNOW y’all don’t even care about Karma like that otherwise her appreciation thread would be popping before this whole leg business. The comic, character, and author have all moved on yet you’re still bothered over a robotic leg that she’s had for about a decade now? I get the initial reaction when the resurrection issue came out, but are we really gonna make a fuss every time she shows up from now on?
    Exactatiously. Aint nobody have no time for dat negative "Faux-ffended" mess.
    I love Karma and my only nit with her prosthetic is that it should be more T-1000 and less T-800.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 06-11-2021 at 07:54 AM.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    First of all, thanks for sharing your experience on here.

    I said it before in another thread: I'd be perfectly happy with an on-page explanation similar to what you've just given, or at the very least the writer/editor coming out and saying they want to keep Karma with a prosthetic leg because she's one of the few characters who have one and don't wanna lose that representation. I get it, it makes perfect sense and I could just ignore the fact it doesn't get addressed on page.

    What rubbed me the wrong way was Vita Ayala feigning surprise and offense when people pointed out to them on Twitter that it's hard to take Shan's decision to keep her prosthetic leg at face value and accused people of "ableism". I get it, it sucks to wake up in the morning with dozens of people screaming at you on Twitter, but you're writing a long-established book with characters people have known and loved for years, characters people expect to behave in a way that's comprehensible to them. I trust some readers would be willing to learn and grow however writers need to do the work and sell them on concepts which might not exactly be clear to them. But hey, maybe the topic will be addressed in one of the upcoming issues, I know I for one would appreciate it.
    The problem with your viewpoint, and I mean no disrespect by it, but it is an abelist viewpoint. For disabled people, many dont want excuses or attn drawn to the disability. Its a part of life and it should not have to be said on paper what her reasons are for keeping the leg. Its just like any other minority group. We should be able to understand and empathize without being condescending by accident. For it to have to be written out and explained, when its just part of who she is now, shouldnt have to be made a big deal of. That would be like every time I introduced myself I go hi I am a nonbinary gay who has bipolar and degenerative disc disorder and am half cuban and half jewish........ etc. Its like straight cis girls that fawn over gay guys, which many of us dont like, they love the gay people and have no problems with gays and am so excited to have a gay friend, and yes while not treating negativity, it is still treating them differently. Differences people have don't always need to be explained, be it race, gender, sexuality, or disability. It is very abelist viewpoint that the trauma/disability has to be explained out.... in real life trump/disability is often just part of life and many disabled dont want to be treated differently no matter if it is good or bad, they just want to allow it to be. Trying hard to put it into words but it a viewpoint that able bodied people just cant seem to grasp.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Exactatiously. Aint nobody have no time for dat negative "Faux-ffended" mess.
    I love Karma and my only nit with her prosthetic is that it should be more T-1000 and less T-800.
    There is also the factor of the abilist viewpoint of oh she has a new body they must give her a new leg. Like something is wrong with her if she only has one leg. If she doesnt see something wrong with only having one leg what right is it that someone says she has to have two legs or it must be explained. Karma doesn't owe ANYONE explanation for why she feels most comfortable with a leg. It just is. The ableist pov that disabled is broken and if she chooses to stay "broken" they must explain why. When it is as simple as it is what it is and no explanations are owed.

  4. #49
    Spectacular Member ColossusFan's Avatar
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    Listen..I understand the whole differently-abled representation thing..just another thing resurrection takes away..but let's be real..the idea that someone who was born with a leg and lost that leg wouldn't want their leg back is ridiculous..if it were possible, every person, soldier, etc that has lost a limb or limbs would do it in a heartbeat..but that's the thing, it's not really possible..not in our world..so anyone who has lost a limb has to keep telling themselves all the things one tells themselves to persevere..whatever they have to..up to and including not admitting they would want them back..as they should..but regardless of what anyone says, in a world where it's not possible..if we lived in one where it was..no one who lost limbs is coming back without them..no one..the argument about representation is valid but if everyone is being honest the other side is valid too..no one is wrong here..the problem here is resurrection plain and simple..but they brought it into this universe..and here we are

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1440 View Post
    The problem with your viewpoint, and I mean no disrespect by it, but it is an abelist viewpoint. For disabled people, many dont want excuses or attn drawn to the disability. Its a part of life and it should not have to be said on paper what her reasons are for keeping the leg. Its just like any other minority group. We should be able to understand and empathize without being condescending by accident. For it to have to be written out and explained, when its just part of who she is now, shouldnt have to be made a big deal of. That would be like every time I introduced myself I go hi I am a nonbinary gay who has bipolar and degenerative disc disorder and am half cuban and half jewish........ etc. Its like straight cis girls that fawn over gay guys, which many of us dont like, they love the gay people and have no problems with gays and am so excited to have a gay friend, and yes while not treating negativity, it is still treating them differently. Differences people have don't always need to be explained, be it race, gender, sexuality, or disability. It is very abelist viewpoint that the trauma/disability has to be explained out.... in real life trump/disability is often just part of life and many disabled dont want to be treated differently no matter if it is good or bad, they just want to allow it to be. Trying hard to put it into words but it a viewpoint that able bodied people just cant seem to grasp.
    I think you said it really well for what it's worth.

    For everyone who's pressed about this, maybe just take a step back and accept that you might not be the demographic for this and that's okay. Would it make sense for Xi'an in the real world to choose having an artificial leg? I don't know, I have never been in that position. But if it's something that makes other readers feel validated or happy or represented or whatever, then why should it bother me? If I can accept that she's named Xi'an Coy Manh which makes no sense for a Vietnamese person and I can accept that she has powers that don't exist in the real world and I can accept that child protective services have never come for Leong and Nga and I can accept that her dead brother has been living in her head for the past bunch of years and I can accept that she became more obese than any person is capable of and then lost all that weight without any excess skin or health risks just from eating lizards in the desert, why would an artificial leg be where my suspension of disbelief gives up?

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    I think you said it really well for what it's worth.

    For everyone who's pressed about this, maybe just take a step back and accept that you might not be the demographic for this and that's okay. Would it make sense for Xi'an in the real world to choose having an artificial leg? I don't know, I have never been in that position. But if it's something that makes other readers feel validated or happy or represented or whatever, then why should it bother me? If I can accept that she's named Xi'an Coy Manh which makes no sense for a Vietnamese person and I can accept that she has powers that don't exist in the real world and I can accept that child protective services have never come for Leong and Nga and I can accept that her dead brother has been living in her head for the past bunch of years and I can accept that she became more obese than any person is capable of and then lost all that weight without any excess skin or health risks just from eating lizards in the desert, why would an artificial leg be where my suspension of disbelief gives up?
    TREMENDOUS post.

  7. #52
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1440 View Post
    There is also the factor of the abilist viewpoint of oh she has a new body they must give her a new leg. Like something is wrong with her if she only has one leg. If she doesnt see something wrong with only having one leg what right is it that someone says she has to have two legs or it must be explained. Karma doesn't owe ANYONE explanation for why she feels most comfortable with a leg. It just is. The ableist pov that disabled is broken and if she chooses to stay "broken" they must explain why. When it is as simple as it is what it is and no explanations are owed.
    I agree.
    Karma is living her best life right now...She clearly does not see herself as "broken" and if she has never had any issue with having a prosthetic leg for the length of time she's had it, why is it so difficult for some readers to accept that that's what she wants and how she wants to live?
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 06-11-2021 at 09:06 AM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  8. #53
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I agree.
    Karma is living her best life right now...and if she has never had any issue with having a prosthetic leg for the length of time she's had it, why is it so difficult for some readers to accept that that's what she wants and how she wants to live?
    Also she didn't even go into the Crucible with the intention of changing herself or "fixing" anything. It was literally all for her brother. It would have sent a pretty horrible message for her to go through it for appearance changes while still denying the younger mutants that same opportunity.

  9. #54

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    I mean Xavier, probably the most recognizable disabled character in comics history, already lost his, that doesn't mean everyone else needs to be "fixed"

  10. #55
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    While most people who have lost a limb in real life would jump at the chance to get it back, if prosthetics technology was as advanced as it is in the Marvel universe I could see more people choosing to stay with the prosthetic even if they had the option of getting the physical limb regrown.

    To me this is a minor thing that has plenty of possible explanations which don't need to be stated since it is so minor. I've seen plenty of things that I thought desperately needed some sort of explanation, and this is not one of them.

  11. #56
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    We don't see Forge or Wizz Kid scheduling Crucible time either. Where is the "outcry" for them to change who they are physically?
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  12. #57
    Spectacular Member Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    We don't see Forge or Wizz Kid scheduling Crucible time either. Where is the "outcry" for them to change who they are physically?
    Honestly it’s all a bit of nonsense. Just gatekeepers dictating how comics have to be, because of a limited view and lack of empathy.

  13. #58
    All-New Member Salemdelight's Avatar
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    It has been strange how Karmas leg has caused a lot of heated arguments. Not seen too many people get bent out of shape that Chambers back with no face, chest, heart or lungs, like they have with Karma. And he's been someone whose always been vocal and unhappy about his disfigurement. Karma seems to have dealt with the loss of her leg in recent years, and like others said she didn't do the Crucible for herself, but for her brother. It probably never crossed her mind to ask about her leg, because he was more important to her, and that shows how much its become part of her in her mind.

  14. #59
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    This discourse is making me rember m all the crap that dc did with Barbra, trying to making it seem liking her time as oracle was bad because being crippled makes you less of a persion. I hated that. Being having a disability is not a insult.

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salemdelight View Post
    It has been strange how Karmas leg has caused a lot of heated arguments. Not seen too many people get bent out of shape that Chambers back with no face, chest, heart or lungs, like they have with Karma. And he's been someone whose always been vocal and unhappy about his disfigurement. Karma seems to have dealt with the loss of her leg in recent years, and like others said she didn't do the Crucible for herself, but for her brother. It probably never crossed her mind to ask about her leg, because he was more important to her, and that shows how much its become part of her in her mind.
    Isn’t Chamber’s appearance BECAUSE of his mutation destroying his body? So even if he was rez’ed with an intact face his powers would just destroy it again, anyway.

    I think too many people are getting hung up on whether something is ableist or representation or whatever. It’s just mechanically BIZARRE that if a new body is grown for those who are rez’ed, said body wouldn’t be grown “intact.” Logan and Laura’s adamantium is a bad comparison because it would be pretty easy to have their claws/etc redone after their natural body is restored.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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