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  1. #61
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Isn’t Chamber’s appearance BECAUSE of his mutation destroying his body? So even if he was rez’ed with an intact face his powers would just destroy it again, anyway.

    I think too many people are getting hung up on whether something is ableist or representation or whatever. It’s just mechanically BIZARRE that if a new body is grown for those who are rez’ed, said body wouldn’t be grown “intact.” Logan and Laura’s adamantium is a bad comparison because it would be pretty easy to have their claws/etc redone after their natural body is restored.
    It is just simply weird be ressurrect with your leg but then you say that you prefer a metallic leg.
    Ressurrection process eliminate all physical disabilities, it is a flaw

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    Honestly it’s all a bit of nonsense. Just gatekeepers dictating how comics have to be, because of a limited view and lack of empathy.
    I wasn’t even going to get involved in the conversation when I first saw it. I knew exactly why vita or marvel or both, did it. But seeing all the posts about ableist ‘discussion’, well, I was honestly surprised by how much it was pissing me off. ‘we love disabled people and think you should bring pain forever! You can’t possibly be your true self any other way.’ But apparently me and my crushed foot are ableist (for the other side gatekeepers out there keeping track,) for even entertaining the idea of having a limb back the way you had it ‘before’.

  3. #63
    Incredible Member superjosh's Avatar
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    Wow a lot of you guys in this thread need to take a step back. You have people literally explaining to you how they feel from firsthand experience and you're still trying to invalidate them. STOP IT.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Ressurrection process eliminate all physical disabilities, it is a flaw
    As tasteful as ever.

  5. #65

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    Not every disabled persons greatest desire is to not be disabled anymore.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by superjosh View Post
    Wow a lot of you guys in this thread need to take a step back. You have people literally explaining to you how they feel from firsthand experience and you're still trying to invalidate them. STOP IT.
    So? If they're being asses over a story about an Fictional Character who went through a Fictional Resurrection Process,they should be treated be treated as such.

    There's nothing really valid about their comments,since if you were to bring their "arguments" into reality/real life , if there really was this "Resurrection Process" this crowd would be screaming at Karma for deciding to keep her leg because the sight of the leg would basically offend them. What Karma wants doesn't matter to them.

    That's the "real" test here.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1440 View Post
    The problem with your viewpoint, and I mean no disrespect by it, but it is an abelist viewpoint. For disabled people, many dont want excuses or attn drawn to the disability. Its a part of life and it should not have to be said on paper what her reasons are for keeping the leg. Its just like any other minority group. We should be able to understand and empathize without being condescending by accident. For it to have to be written out and explained, when its just part of who she is now, shouldnt have to be made a big deal of. That would be like every time I introduced myself I go hi I am a nonbinary gay who has bipolar and degenerative disc disorder and am half cuban and half jewish........ etc. Its like straight cis girls that fawn over gay guys, which many of us dont like, they love the gay people and have no problems with gays and am so excited to have a gay friend, and yes while not treating negativity, it is still treating them differently. Differences people have don't always need to be explained, be it race, gender, sexuality, or disability. It is very abelist viewpoint that the trauma/disability has to be explained out.... in real life trump/disability is often just part of life and many disabled dont want to be treated differently no matter if it is good or bad, they just want to allow it to be. Trying hard to put it into words but it a viewpoint that able bodied people just cant seem to grasp.
    There's a simpler real-life example of this. Eyeglasses. I'm nearsighted. Really nearsighted. Have been all of my life. According to this crowd, I should running out to get LASIK surgery for my eyesight problems, which I have no intention of doing. Nor do I have any intention of getting contacts. Not worth the hassle.

    I like my glasses. They're the old school Oversized metal frame ones.
    Last edited by rcaguy; 06-11-2021 at 11:19 AM.

  8. #68
    Incredible Member superjosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaguy View Post
    So? If they're being asses over a story about an Fictional Character who went through a Fictional Resurrection Process,they should be treated be treated as such.

    There's nothing really valid about their comments,since if you were to bring their "arguments" into reality/real life , if there really was this "Resurrection Process" this crowd would be screaming at Karma for deciding to keep her leg because the sight of the leg would basically offend them. What Karma wants doesn't matter to them.

    That's the "real" test here.
    I'm not sure if there's a miscommunication. I'm saying those asses need to step back lol.

  9. #69
    Spectacular Member ColossusFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Not every disabled persons greatest desire is to not be disabled anymore.
    That's called acceptance..no reason to even think about it..because in this world there are no resurrections..no way to get into a new body..

    Everyone can keep saying whatever they want..but if you think someone who has lost limbs or a paraplegic wouldn't jump at the chance to get what they lost back if there was, then you have no idea what you're talking about

    This resurrection shit is so stupid

  10. #70
    Incredible Member superjosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    As tasteful as ever.
    Wait, so is that person spirit....

  11. #71
    Spectacular Member ColossusFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaguy View Post
    There's a simpler real-life example of this. Eyeglasses. I'm nearsighted. Really nearsighted. Have been all of my life. According to this crowd, I should running out to get LASIK surgery for my eyesight problems, which I have no intention of doing. Nor do I have any intention of getting contacts. Not worth the hassle.

    I like my glasses. They're the old school Oversized metal frame ones.
    Not the same..not even close..

    Try being able to see, then going blind..then something comes along that can give you sight again

    Or starting with 2 eyes, then losing one.. and something comes along and you can have your eye back

    Yeah, I can imagine all of you being like " nope, I'm good with one eye thanks"..give me a f@$king break
    Last edited by ColossusFan; 06-11-2021 at 11:42 AM.

  12. #72
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    Karma obviously isn’t a real person, she doesn’t have opinions. In the last like ten years since she’s lost her leg, marvel writers have spent like zero panels showing how she ‘feels’ about this, this last issue is of no exception. They wrote that way to prove they’re. I
    not ‘ableist’, even though, Xavier, the famous most comic character with a disability, has been waltzing around without a wheelchair for a few years now.
    Quote Originally Posted by superjosh View Post
    Wow a lot of you guys in this thread need to take a step back. You have people literally explaining to you how they feel from firsthand experience and you're still trying to invalidate them. STOP IT.
    I am speaking from my personal experience.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1440 View Post
    The problem with your viewpoint, and I mean no disrespect by it, but it is an abelist viewpoint. For disabled people, many dont want excuses or attn drawn to the disability. Its a part of life and it should not have to be said on paper what her reasons are for keeping the leg. Its just like any other minority group. We should be able to understand and empathize without being condescending by accident. For it to have to be written out and explained, when its just part of who she is now, shouldnt have to be made a big deal of. That would be like every time I introduced myself I go hi I am a nonbinary gay who has bipolar and degenerative disc disorder and am half cuban and half jewish........ etc. Its like straight cis girls that fawn over gay guys, which many of us dont like, they love the gay people and have no problems with gays and am so excited to have a gay friend, and yes while not treating negativity, it is still treating them differently. Differences people have don't always need to be explained, be it race, gender, sexuality, or disability. It is very abelist viewpoint that the trauma/disability has to be explained out.... in real life trump/disability is often just part of life and many disabled dont want to be treated differently no matter if it is good or bad, they just want to allow it to be. Trying hard to put it into words but it a viewpoint that able bodied people just cant seem to grasp.
    No one is saying a big deal needs to be made out of it... but waving it all away like it's nothing is dismissive and, frankly, lazy writing. What you wrote in your previous posts makes a lot of sense to me... because you took the time to discuss it and explain it. If a writer chooses to have a character make a choice that's arguably controversial, or do something you wouldn't necessarily expect of them, it's a writer's job to take my hand and walk me through the journey. That's why we read about these characters after all, because we are invested in them and want to know why they do the things they do.

    I don't have first-hand knowledge with missing legs so I'll make an example with what I know: when Bobby came out as gay, several pages were devoted to what was going on in his head, why he kept it hidden all these years, etc. As a gay man myself, I knew exactly what he was going through, could relate to the decisions he made and the reasons why he kept it a secret all this time, and didn't strictly need it to get it spelled out over several pages. Because my own personal experience allowed me to relate.

    In that case, like in Shan's case, the writer was taking the character on a path most readers wouldn't necessarily expect them to go. And yes, missing a leg and being gay are 2 vastly different things, however in both cases it's the writer's job to sell readers on a character's decision when it's particularly controversial or it's something most people wouldn't understand. Just like I didn't expect Bobby to suddenly make out with boys with no explanation, as a reader I'm invested in understanding Shan's decision to keep a prosthetic leg. If the writer doesn't take me through that journey, I can't just accept it: perhaps my mind is too small but I can't put myself in the shoes of, well, every single person who has something different from me. Pretending that readers can do that and feigning offense when someone says "I don't understand why she would do that" is frankly terribly dismissive and lazy.
    Last edited by Uncanny X-Man; 06-11-2021 at 11:31 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Lotta folks have been very vocal about Karma's prosthesis. I've been working in a pediatric medical facility for the past 13 years and find myself continually exposed to a wealth of unexpected and eye opening behaviors from patients, their families, and staff.

    Autonomy and trauma have been cornerstone themes of Xi'an since her inception. Specific to her leg, the resurrection protocols DO take the deceased's preferences into consideration when restoring them.

    Domino is an example of this practice being ignored. When she died in X-Force she pleaded with Colossus(?) that when she was resurrected she wanted to remember the torture she endured, however Colossus did not follow through with that relaying that request. Is she better off for it? Was that Colossus's choice to make? That answer is going to vary from person to person for any number of reasons.

    Beast came back blue and hairy and still uses glasses.
    Scott came back and still uses his ruby quartz.
    Wolverine and Laura both came and had their respective metal restored.
    I'm curious to see if the many many requests that Quire made will ever be entertained when next he resurrects.
    But Karma's leg is simply unconscionable to so many.

    If someone hasn't been through a thing, it can be very confusing and challenging to understand why someone's subsequent decisions related to that event and often times it doesn't boil down to ONE thing. Many people have vastly different opinions on any ordinary or extreme experience and the potential value of said experience will differ as well. Even the simplest accident of falling off a bicycle can affect any given person in a different way. Some will try again. Some will shame spiral. Some will abandon bikes all together. But in the end, their path is their own and simply because we don't understand it or even perhaps that we don't LIKE it, its still THEIR path and their body and their choice. We don't have to understand it.

    Just wanted to share my thoughts on the hot button topic. Happy CBR'ing y'all.

    I was going to sit this whole thing out till I saw this post. Kudos for getting me off the sidelines.

    I think the "problem" (used very loosely) people have, which was also a question I had, was the in-story telling of how the resurrection process supposedly works and the fact that it appears to conflict with Karma's prosthesis. This is based on the assumption that when they are hatched, they come out "full". Not sure there has been anything contrary to this belief/assumption.

    That said, the above (as well as some of the stuff people have shared about being differently abled) has addressed my question.

    NB: To all who have shared their experiences, both first and secondhand, thanks. For me, some of the stuff shared were rather insightful and I personally hadn't considered the particular view.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by superjosh View Post
    I'm not sure if there's a miscommunication. I'm saying those asses need to step back lol.
    Though everything would be quoted, including what you were responding to.

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